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DevilDuck

Came home to major dino outbreak.

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DevilDuck

I went out of town for a few days to visit my parents in Chicago. I had a few setbacks and a medical emergency that kept me away a few days longer than I planned.

I came home to my tank covered in dinos. This is pretty disheartening at the moment. The stuff is covering nearly every surface. I need some help!

@mcarroll

 

At some point during my trip, my phosphates dropped to zero and stayed there for a while. My nitrates are probably low too, coming in about 5ppm on the salifert test. I am not sure how accurate the salifert nitrate test is at these levels.

 

Tank is about 80 gallons, 60g display / 20g sump

 

Water parameters to date:

I am using a no water change system. I add trace elements as needed per monthly water testing.

 

image.thumb.png.c7a6d6eee7eae3ee6ffc036dc30e27c2.png

image.thumb.png.c9a3de2162f1f49c86c69323ee3494c7.png

 

 

PXL_20210923_200330511.thumb.jpg.35337443f703404088d07736caa011cb.jpgPXL_20210923_200339888_MP.thumb.jpg.9e6b3a04519e0e2081cd920b3b87bf54.jpgPXL_20210923_195215895-01.thumb.jpeg.47ba1535832d6ac94cff7edd9284fe5a.jpegPXL_20210923_195226377-01.thumb.jpeg.ceb4e4a4efb7a7e70e357efc2db441b7.jpeg

 

What I've done so far:

 

1. Dose nitrate, raising it 2 ppm per day dosing potassium nitrate

2. Dose phosphate, raising it 0.02 ppm per day using Brightwell NeoPhos 

3. Increase temp to 83F

4. Installed UV sterilizer I had on hand (Green Killing Machine 24W) 

5. Turned off skimmer

6. Added 100 micron filter socks

7. Dosed 10ml Microbacter7

 

What I plan on doing soon:

 

1. Ordered a microsope to id dino type

2. Continue dosing 10ml of MB7 daily

3. Clean and remove as much as I can by siphoning into a filter sock

4. Continue dosing nitrate and phosphate

5. Start silica dosing with Brightwell Spongexcel to promote growth of competitive diatoms

6. Lower lighting all around, turn off white, and lower blues leds

7. Ordered and start dosing live phyto and pods

8. Find religion, start praying.

 

Any other recommendations? I am hesitant to try chemical means like Vibrant or Dino-X.

 

 

 

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Instant_taco

I would Siphon as much as you can out and head to the fish store and get some snails. If you don't want to keep them im sure you can get store credit when they are done cleaning up.

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ninjamyst

Don't get snails.  They may just die.  Some type of dino is poisonous to snails.  What you planned out is good.  Don't try to do too much at once.  

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W1ll

I recently recovered from a severe Dino bloom. One thing thing that significantly helped me was slowly raising my tanks temperature to 27.5 degrees Celsius. It definitely did not eradicate the dinos but it slowed down their growth significantly. 

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Clown79

I got dino after being away for 2 days and i first started by siphoning out the dino with turkey baster. I ran the water from turkey baster through a filter sock stuffed with filter floss.

 

The water was returned to tank.

 

I reduced photo period by a few hrs.

 

That helped reduce the dino but then i stopped doing that once i seeded my tank with tisbe pods and rotifers.

 

Once i seeded the tank, i dosed phyto every other night when lights were out and all filtration/water movement off for 15-20 mins. This gives the pods food and reproduction time with less competition from fish.

 

I stopped waterchanges, only used floss and carbon.

 small amounts of carbon changed weekly. 1.5 tbsp of carbon to reduce toxins from dino's.

 

Other than alk/ca i dosed nothing else. 

 

Also during dino, alk sometimes doesn't get uses up asuch so watch your levels while dosing

 

This worked for me in 3 tanks.

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Instant_taco
53 minutes ago, ninjamyst said:

Don't get snails.  They may just die.  Some type of dino is poisonous to snails.  What you planned out is good.  Don't try to do too much at once.  

I must be lucky cause my snail love love love to eat dino.

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Instant_taco

Astraea turbos

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Kindanewtothis
13 hours ago, DevilDuck said:

Start silica dosing with Brightwell Spongexcel to promote growth of competitive diatoms

I did the same but was told that SpongExcel is not concentrated enough. Apparently, waterglass 40% solution is what works best. Don't know where to get it though. No expert here.

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jservedio

Really sorry, that sucks. But, your plan is exactly what needs to be done. I definitely would not risk using any bottled products (like Vibrant) - as long as you keep up with it, you will beat them back no problem. I also wouldn't buy any more snails until you know the dinos aren't going to kill them. Both times I had dinos, the snails ate it right up and promptly died.

 

The biggest thing is not overreacting and going too fast since you still need stability for your corals. As long as you keep the dinos physically off your corals for the most part (siphon, baster, and toothbrush), they will survive if you don't cause big swings.

 

@Clown79's advice for stuffing a filter sock with floss is spot on and a fantastic tip since you can just remove the floss and not have to change the sock a million times. I would even suggest putting a small bag of carbon in the bottom of the filter sock and then putting your floss over that. You don't want the dinos breaking down in the sock releasing toxins so being able to remove the floss is very helpful - and the carbon will soak anything up that is released. Having a sump makes physical removal a thousand times easier since you aren't dealing with any buckets and you can vacuum as long as you need to.

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Clown79
32 minutes ago, jservedio said:

Really sorry, that sucks. But, your plan is exactly what needs to be done. I definitely would not risk using any bottled products (like Vibrant) - as long as you keep up with it, you will beat them back no problem. I also wouldn't buy any more snails until you know the dinos aren't going to kill them. Both times I had dinos, the snails ate it right up and promptly died.

 

The biggest thing is not overreacting and going too fast since you still need stability for your corals. As long as you keep the dinos physically off your corals for the most part (siphon, baster, and toothbrush), they will survive if you don't cause big swings.

 

@Clown79's advice for stuffing a filter sock with floss is spot on and a fantastic tip since you can just remove the floss and not have to change the sock a million times. I would even suggest putting a small bag of carbon in the bottom of the filter sock and then putting your floss over that. You don't want the dinos breaking down in the sock releasing toxins so being able to remove the floss is very helpful - and the carbon will soak anything up that is released. Having a sump makes physical removal a thousand times easier since you aren't dealing with any buckets and you can vacuum as long as you need to.

I actually didn't add the sock to my filter. I used it outside of tank.

 

Literally put the sock in a container, stuffed it with floss. Then i would suck out dino's with the turkey baster and ran it through the floss and sock.

 

The water went back into tank, the floss in the garbage, the filter sock washed and air dried for the next days process. 

 

In my media baskets i had floss and carbon.

 

Floss was changed every 2 days, carbon chsnged weekly.(i bagged my own carbon)

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jservedio
6 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

I actually didn't add the sock to my filter. I used it outside of tank.

 

Literally put the sock in a container, stuffed it with floss. Then i would suck out dino's with the turkey baster and ran it through the floss and sock.

 

The water went back into tank, the floss in the garbage, the filter sock washed and air dried for the next days process. 

 

In my media baskets i had floss and carbon.

 

Floss was changed every 2 days, carbon chsnged weekly.(i bagged my own carbon)

Oh I know what you meant, but you didn't have a sump. DevilDuck has a sump, so no need to run it to a bucket! He can siphon as long as he would like as fast as his return pump can keep up. Plus, with the sock in the sump, in addition to siphoning, he can leave it in there for a while as anything else lets go so long as it isn't there long enough for it to start breaking down. I made sure I never kept a sock in for more than 2 or 3 days without being washed.

 

The last time I dealt with it I stuffed my filter socks with floss as well, siphoned and then tossed the floss and left the sock in there until it got too full since I had a sump as well.

 

I was just trying to say floss inside the filter sock is a fantastic idea - regardless if it's in a bucket or in the sump!

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mitten_reef
18 hours ago, DevilDuck said:

What I've done so far:

 

1. Dose nitrate, raising it 2 ppm per day dosing potassium nitrate

2. Dose phosphate, raising it 0.02 ppm per day using Brightwell NeoPhos 

3. Increase temp to 83F

4. Installed UV sterilizer I had on hand (Green Killing Machine 24W) 

5. Turned off skimmer

6. Added 100 micron filter socks

7. Dosed 10ml Microbacter7

 

What I plan on doing soon:

 

1. Ordered a microsope to id dino type

2. Continue dosing 10ml of MB7 daily

3. Clean and remove as much as I can by siphoning into a filter sock

4. Continue dosing nitrate and phosphate

5. Start silica dosing with Brightwell Spongexcel to promote growth of competitive diatoms

6. Lower lighting all around, turn off white, and lower blues leds

7. Ordered and start dosing live phyto and pods

8. Find religion, start praying.

did most of the to-do on this list (or semi equivalent), and took me about a month to beat dino earlier this year.  

 

What I def didn't do:

didn't ID the dino

didn't have a skimmer to turn off 

didn't raise temp

didn't have UV (but was very close to consider purchasing one)

didn't know anything about silica/sponge/diatom theory

didn't add live phyto or pods

didn't find religion....lol 🤣

 

damn, I did less than half of the list, oh well... good luck with your battle anyhow.  

 

 

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DevilDuck
7 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

I did the same but was told that SpongExcel is not concentrated enough. Apparently, waterglass 40% solution is what works best. Don't know where to get it though. No expert here.

Thanks, I will look into water glass when I run out of SpongExcel since I already bought it. I see it on amazon as high temp glue! ....need to do more research.

 

2 hours ago, jservedio said:

Oh I know what you meant, but you didn't have a sump. DevilDuck has a sump, so no need to run it to a bucket! He can siphon as long as he would like as fast as his return pump can keep up. Plus, with the sock in the sump, in addition to siphoning, he can leave it in there for a while as anything else lets go so long as it isn't there long enough for it to start breaking down. I made sure I never kept a sock in for more than 2 or 3 days without being washed.

 

The last time I dealt with it I stuffed my filter socks with floss as well, siphoned and then tossed the floss and left the sock in there until it got too full since I had a sump as well.

 

I was just trying to say floss inside the filter sock is a fantastic idea - regardless if it's in a bucket or in the sump!

Great suggestion! I just swapped out my socks this morning and will add some floss to this new one.

 

2 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

did most of the to-do on this list (or semi equivalent), and took me about a month to beat dino earlier this year.  

 

What I def didn't do:

didn't ID the dino

didn't have a skimmer to turn off 

didn't raise temp

didn't have UV (but was very close to consider purchasing one)

didn't know anything about silica/sponge/diatom theory

didn't add live phyto or pods

didn't find religion....lol 🤣

 

damn, I did less than half of the list, oh well... good luck with your battle anyhow.  

 

 

I hope I beat it in 1/2 a month then! 

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DevilDuck

I turned down my light intensity to 50% from 66% and turned off all white channel leds.

 

Nitrate is now up to 10 ppm

Phosphates is at .02 ppm, I've dose it up another .02 ppm.

 

Tank is now running between 82-83F. I'll have to find some more time this weekend to scrub and toothbrush the rocks and check out any losses.

I can't find my goby and I think he maybe a goner. I've lost two astraea snails, crossing my fingers that Larry the Conch made it. He hasn't made an appearance yet either.

 

 

 

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Clown79
19 minutes ago, DevilDuck said:

I turned down my light intensity to 50% from 66% and turned off all white channel leds.

 

Nitrate is now up to 10 ppm

Phosphates is at .02 ppm, I've dose it up another .02 ppm.

 

Tank is now running between 82-83F. I'll have to find some more time this weekend to scrub and toothbrush the rocks and check out any losses.

I can't find my goby and I think he maybe a goner. I've lost two astraea snails, crossing my fingers that Larry the Conch made it. He hasn't made an appearance yet either.

 

 

 

Try not to scrub or blow the dino around. You want to suck it out.

 

Dino spreads, so if you scrub it, if it gets into the flow, it will spread.

 

 

I reduced photo period rather than changed the lighting percentages. 

 

Your phos needs to get a lot higher. I didn't see a reduction start until 0.08 but when they started dying off it was 0.14

 

You need competition for the dino. Pods are the number 1 competitor to dino.

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DevilDuck
6 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Try not to scrub or blow the dino around. You want to suck it out.

 

Dino spreads, so if you scrub it, if it gets into the flow, it will spread.

 

 

I reduced photo period rather than changed the lighting percentages. 

 

Your phos needs to get a lot higher. I didn't see a reduction start until 0.08 but when they started dying off it was 0.14

 

You need competition for the dino. Pods are the number 1 competitor to dino.

I guess I shouldn't have scraped the glass then!

 

Thanks for the heads up. I'll take whatever pieces I can out of the tank and scrub them in a separate container.

 

I've read that it is better to slowly increase phosphates and was suggested .02 ppm a day as a guideline. 

I have pods and phyto on order from podyourreef.com 

 

 

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Clown79
1 hour ago, DevilDuck said:

I guess I shouldn't have scraped the glass then!

 

Thanks for the heads up. I'll take whatever pieces I can out of the tank and scrub them in a separate container.

 

I've read that it is better to slowly increase phosphates and was suggested .02 ppm a day as a guideline. 

I have pods and phyto on order from podyourreef.com 

 

 

Dino's become an issue when there is an imbalance in the system.

Removing the rocks and scrubbing them may possibly make your problem worse.

 

The worst thing one can do is over clean with a dino outbreak.

 

Everything at this stage is about not cleaning, encouraging competing algeas and introducing biodiversity.

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DevilDuck

Nitrates: 25 ppm

Phosphates: 0.05 ppm (targeting .1 ppm)

Temp: 83F

Dosing 15ml of Microbacter7 daily

 

I've started dosing Brightwell SpongExcel at 1 drop per 10g (target 1 drop per gallon) - I noticed that as soon ask the SpongExcel hits the water it becomes this heavy milky substance that sinks to the bottom. Is this normal?

 

My cheapie microscope came in I was able to do a quick video of the dinos. It looks like a have a mix of ostreopsis and coolia dinoflagates.

 

 

 

Cleaned the dinos from the sides and the tank is looking a little better today:

 

PXL_20210925_201650916.thumb.jpg.95ccd383d66a29f082f6f91c575e69cd.jpg

 

PXL_20210925_201640684.thumb.jpg.c1ed844da37a1f0eae07ab1c12f6f8db.jpg

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Kindanewtothis
15 hours ago, DevilDuck said:

I've started dosing Brightwell SpongExcel at 1 drop per 10g (target 1 drop per gallon) - I noticed that as soon ask the SpongExcel hits the water it becomes this heavy milky substance that sinks to the bottom. Is this normal?

Same here, it's normal.

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DevilDuck
3 hours ago, Kindanewtothis said:

Same here, it's normal.

Thanks for the confirmation! I've started dosing it into the MP40 and it does a great job mixing it up.

 

I officially have a "dirty tank": 

Phosphates: 0.19 ppm a little over my target so I'm going to stop dosing unless it drops. 

Nitrates: 25 ppm should I push this higher?

Dosing 20 drops of Spongexcel daily. Target of 1 drop per gallon or when I hit over 1 ppm on the ICP water test.

 

I also cut back the lighting period by an hour.

 

Sending off an ICP water test Monday to see where I'm at with trace elements.

 

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justinkdenny
On 9/23/2021 at 5:45 PM, Instant_taco said:

I would Siphon as much as you can out and head to the fish store and get some snails. If you don't want to keep them im sure you can get store credit when they are done cleaning up.

certain types of dinos ime will kill snails so you might want to id them first before throwing your money away.

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Clown79
31 minutes ago, justinkdenny said:

certain types of dinos ime will kill snails so you might want to id them first before throwing your money away.

I had ostreopsis, the snails that survived were nasaurius.

 

I had to replenish the rest once dino was gone.

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DevilDuck
6 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

I had ostreopsis, the snails that survived were nasaurius.

 

I had to replenish the rest once dino was gone.

So far I've lost 2 astrea snails. I've decided to not add any more live stock until the dino issue has been resolved.

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Clown79
1 hour ago, DevilDuck said:

So far I've lost 2 astrea snails. I've decided to not add any more live stock until the dino issue has been resolved.

That is a very good decision.

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