Ammonia question - new tank cycle

[AMoonlitGoat]

Hi everyone, I recently started a new Nuvo 10 with dry rock on 8/12/21 and was having some issues with my ammonia test results. 

here are my results for the past few days. 
 

8/12 - Water first put in with dr Tim’s tested ammonia with api test kit and it maxed out at >8ppm without dosing ammonium chloride

 

8/13 - Bought a salifert test kit and that read 1.5 ppm ammonia. Starting dosing 2ml microbacter7 every day for next 2 weeks per instructions. 

 

8/14 - ammonia at 1.5 ppm

 

8/15 - ammonia 1.75? Ppm

 

8/16 - ammonia reading 1.8? Ppm

 

8/17 - ammonia reading 1.5 ppm

 

8/18 - ammonia reading 1.5 ppm

 

8/19 - ammonia still reading 1.5 so at this point I decided I should add 24 drops ammonium chloride at 12:00 since I still hadn’t added any up until this point. At 15:00 I check the level again and ammonia was still reading 1.5 ppm

Nitrite 0.5 ppm

nitrate 5 ppm

 

8/20 - ammonia reading 1.5 still double checked with api again maxed out very dark green to blue

Nitrite 0.4 ppm

nitrate 6? Ppm

At this point I added a small bag of fluval bio max media. Diatoms and green spots start appearing on rocks since I’m cycling with lights. 

 

8/21 - at 11:30 I tested parameters

ammonia 1.5

nitrite 0.75

nitrate 7 ppm

And then I did a 5 gal water change and tested again.

Ammonia still 1.5 ppm

Dosed another 24 drops of ammonium chloride

8/22 - ammonia still at 1.5

nitrite 0.5

nitrate 5

So my question is should I trust the 1.5ppm ammonia and continue cycling as I am or should I disregard the result and start stocking once nitrite hits 0? I tested fresh saltwater and ro/di water both read 0 ammonia. Any help would be highly appreciated! Right now I’m at a loss as to why I keep reading high ammonia. 

 

[NoOneLikesADryTang]

You’re still cycling. Patience is the key with this hobby. Wait until both ammonia and nitrite are zero. 

[AMoonlitGoat]

Hey thanks for answering! So is it normal to have an initial ammonia reading of 1.5 before adding any drops and also shouldn’t the reading have dropped after a 75% water change if it was a true reading?

[NoOneLikesADryTang]

The hobbyist test kits aren’t super accurate. So it’s entirely possible that your second reading was way more accurate than your first. (Or they could both be wrong.) 

 

Your best bet is to just wait it out (as much as I know it sucks!) until both ammonia and nitrite are gone. 

[AMoonlitGoat]

Sounds good! Thanks for the advice. 

[NoOneLikesADryTang]

You’re welcome. There’s lots of knowledge on this forum. Please ask any questions you have along the way! 

[MSunkin23]

I would wait for ammonia to hit zero for a couple of day. My tank had high nitrites for almost a week before it started to drop. Once ammonia and nitrite hit zero. You can add another 2ppm ammonia and see what happens over a couple of days.

[stevie1493]

My .02 is that in regards to Ammonia and nitrite.. When I'm testing during a cycle I'm more concerned about a positive or negative result than I am about the actual ppm. If levels look over 2.5ppm it may be worth completing a partial WC to get them under 2.5ppm, but generally it's just a waiting game until the test vials are looking clear after the test.

 

Sounds like you're doing exactly what you need to be doing..just a waiting game now. 🙂

 

 

[AMoonlitGoat]

Ok great! Glad to hear I’m on the right track. I went out and got a seachem ammonia badge so I don’t have to test every day and I’ll keep my eye out for when that hits 0 and go from there. Does that sound like a good plan?

[rough eye]

don't dose ammonia if ammonia is already present.

 

don't do water changes during cycling. 

 

getting color on the rocks is a good sign.

[banasophia]

2 minutes ago, rough eye said:

don't dose ammonia if ammonia is already present.

 

don't do water changes during cycling. 

 

getting color on the rocks is a good sign.

Agree, don’t keep adding ammonia you have to wait for it to drop before you add more. You will make your ammonia too high and stall your cycle.
 

Stop doing the water changes. You shouldn’t be doing water changes during a cycle (unless your ammonia and nitrite got too high, above 5, and you stalled the cycle). 
 

https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/library/quick-guide-to-fishless-cycling-with-one-and-only/

[banasophia]

1 hour ago, AMoonlitGoat said:

Ok great! Glad to hear I’m on the right track. I went out and got a seachem ammonia badge so I don’t have to test every day and I’ll keep my eye out for when that hits 0 and go from there. Does that sound like a good plan?

I do use an ammonia badge to monitor for an unexpected spike in the ammonia once my tank is cycled and running, but while you are cycling and adding ammonia for a fishless cycle you really want to be testing… some types of ammonia like the Dr Tim’s drops do not register on the ammonia badge as I recall. 

[AMoonlitGoat]

Ok good to know about the ammonia badge. I’ll keep it for after the cycle when I add fish to monitor for spikes. I know I wasn’t supposed to do the water change I just was really starting to think the ammonia test wasn’t reading right because I hadn’t put anything in and still was detecting 1.5 ppm and then no change to the reading even after the water change. From now on I’m hands off until ammonia is 0 😁 

[AMoonlitGoat]

Does anyone know where that ammonia could have come from? I started with dry rock and dry sand and fresh saltwater, api read >8 and salifert 1.5 the same day I put water in. Is that normal?

[rough eye]

1 hour ago, AMoonlitGoat said:

Does anyone know where that ammonia could have come from? I started with dry rock and dry sand and fresh saltwater, api read >8 and salifert 1.5 the same day I put water in. Is that normal?

could have come from small amounts of detritus that was on the rock or sand, if it wasn't washed before putting it in the tank. Also could have come from your water. what water are you using?

[AMoonlitGoat]

12 minutes ago, rough eye said:

could have come from small amounts of detritus that was on the rock or sand, if it wasn't washed before putting it in the tank. Also could have come from your water. what water are you using?

Rinsed the sand and rock with ro/di, I use the brs 4 stage ro/di comes out 0 tds.

[stevie1493]

All sand, even dry sand is "used", old, and has organics in it that break down when introduced to water. Shouldn't be too much to worry about as the tank cycles.

 

A note on the ammonia alert badges. Seachem's website states they take a few hours to calibrate to the water they are in before they provide an accurate result. In my experience this may realistically be days or weeks, but once they are acclimated to the tank they will both quickly respond to the ammonia present in the water and when the ammonia is removed.

 

Even a brand new dry badge will turn dark when exposed directly to ammonia fumes, but will take a long time to return to "safe". Once the badge is acclimated it will take only minutes to turn from danger to safe once ammonia is removed. When I do a WC in my QT the badge will darken up due to all the stirred up detritus, but when I refill with fresh saltwater it will quickly return to safe. I would be cautious about letting one of those badges dry out completely in between uses as it may impact accuracy or sensitivity. Best to leave the badge in the tank somewhere so that it is calibrated and sensitive to your tank for when you need it.

[AMoonlitGoat]

Alright well that makes sense. I guess that solves that mystery. Thank you 😁 as for the badge yes it is staying submerged in the tank from now until I get fish so that should hopefully give it time to calibrate. 

[banasophia]

Here’s what happened when I tested the badge during cycling, and the info from Seachem about it. 
 

Ammonia badge vs API, the badge was in my tank three days before adding the ammonia. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevie1493]

Banasophia brings up a good point. Ammo Alert badges are not exactly useful during cycling and are designed to detect spikes in established tanks. They can play tricks on you if you aren't familiar with the difference with NH3/NH4 and how most hobby kits detect both while the ammo badge ONLY detects NH3 (free ammonia) which is the highly toxic form. 

 

If you dose something or make a change in the tank that binds up the NH3 (free/toxic ammonia) and converts it to NH4...your ammo badge will be "safe" while your test kit may read off the chart. That's because the badge ONLY detects the ammonia that will kill your livestock.

[AMoonlitGoat]

19 minutes ago, stevie1493 said:

Banasophia brings up a good point. Ammo Alert badges are not exactly useful during cycling and are designed to detect spikes in established tanks. They can play tricks on you if you aren't familiar with the difference with NH3/NH4 and how most hobby kits detect both while the ammo badge ONLY detects NH3 (free ammonia) which is the highly toxic form. 

 

If you dose something or make a change in the tank that binds up the NH3 (free/toxic ammonia) and converts it to NH4...your ammo badge will be "safe" while your test kit may read off the chart. That's because the badge ONLY detects the ammonia that will kill your livestock.

Well so much for trying the easy way 😅 I’ll keep testing manually. Thank you all for the info! It is very much appreciated.

[AMoonlitGoat]

Hi guys, I’m not sure if I should ask here or start a new thread as I’m new to posting but I had another question. I just tested the water again with api and salifert and was wondering which one to go by. For api my ammonia is reading >8 and salifert is reading 1.5 ppm still.

 

Now my question is if I go by the api I should do a water change since I probably stalled my cycle or should I just wait it out?

 

Another thing, I was curious about the saliferts accuracy so when testing the water I added 1 drop of ammonium to another test to see if it would increase the reading and it didn’t. The test still read 1.5 ppm even though I added ammonia in such a small sample so now I’m scratching my head and I’m not sure which to go by.

 

any ideas?

[AMoonlitGoat]

For reference

[banasophia]

Wow, that’s a significant difference in results between the two tests. You really want to figure out which one is correct. 
 

So I think there are three possible scenarios here:

• there could be something wrong with one of your test kits
• user error in doing the test
• or I'm wondering if salifert may be testing for a different form of ammonia (just like I observed with the seachem ammonia badges not registering the Dr Tim’s ammonia drops when API did)

[AMoonlitGoat]

Thank you for responding 😁

 

#1 has been my suspicion from the beginning but there’s really no way to tell for sure I suppose. 
 

#2 it could be possible I’m doing the test incorrectly but I really don’t think so. I’ve been following all instructions on the paper exactly and have never gotten a reading other than 1.5 ppm with the salifert besides when I checked fresh ro/di and fresh saltwater to see if there was any contamination and both read 0. 
 

#3 just double checked salifert measures total ammonia same as the api but different than the badge. -thank you for educating me on the difference between free and total ammonia 😁