Parameters on the up? 🤔

[Murphs_Reef]

So after much reviewing of what I have changed and when. Sifting photos for changes and checking when I went to LFS etc. I am going to call it artificial rock being added while not fully cured that is the root cause of the alk to rise.

This doesn't really we explain to me the calcium or magnesium if I'm honest but there are some pretty consistent lines between adding the rock to my measurements going up. 

The one other thing I don't understand fully is that since the rise in the 3 parameters, LPS have just stopped growing. As this was a steady slow rising of the parameters I would have expected that LPS would have adapted and grown using up additional elements. None the less, nothing seems to be suffering the change but neither are they exploiting them. Maybe @seabass or @mcarroll can shed some light on this? I am learning lots but still scratching the surface... 

 

[seabass]

On 8/8/2021 at 4:57 AM, Murphych said:

Monti's are growing so fast they are brittle and the slightest brush past fractures them... 

AND I have decent coralline growth so elements are being consumed!? 

Yep, these would consume elements.  Sand and rock can act as a buffer, but with normal pH levels, I wouldn't expect a huge impact.

 

I can't say that I know what's going on.  One might speculate that the new test results are accurate; while the original tests came back lower for some reason.  But let's say that the tests were all "accurate".  There is still a range of error involved in hobby grade kits.

 

So does this even need to be addressed?  Even if levels have increased some, it's hard to imagine that levels will continue to increase.  However, there are a couple things you might try.  Lowering specific gravity slightly will dilute these elements.  Also, a water change should help bring parameters back down to normal (test the batch of newly mixed saltwater to confirm levels).

 

Let's call the increase due to a buffering effect.  However, with consumption from stony corals and coralline algae, I would imagine that the increase will stop (and even reverse itself).  I wouldn't be overly concerned, but keep monitoring, and make adjustments if necessary.

 

[mcarroll]

On 8/8/2021 at 11:18 AM, Murphych said:

I don't want to mix up new salt and change any water out as everything is happy.

Every reef in nature has water changes....usually at a rate closer to 100% than 0%. (But there are reefs across that spectrum.)

 

But I'd suggest mixing up some new saltwater, even if only a small portion, to be used as a sanity check/another point of reference...even if you don't use it on the tank.  (But then I'd say why not...don't waste it.)

 

Try to make your comparison this way:

• Test your RODI water.  
• Then mix your carefully measured salt in it and once the water visibly clears (usually 5 minutes if you do a decent job mixing), remeasure everything.  
• Then wait 30-60 minutes (for any possible pH changes) and re-test your new water again.  

Important: Try to maintain the temperature of the sample water at the same temperature as your tank water so your tests of the tank and sample are as comparable as possible.  I'd float the test water in your tank somehow....at least the portion you'll be using in the actual tests, which is only in the mL range.

 

Post up your numbers.  Maybe there will be something interesting.

 

On 8/10/2021 at 7:08 AM, Murphych said:

Yeah it was fine, it was set to 35 (1.026?) and my water sample was just under at 1.025 which is where I expected it to be.

 

On 8/12/2021 at 10:44 AM, Murphych said:

Measured alk at 10.5 and calcium at 480

 

On 8/12/2021 at 10:44 AM, Murphych said:

pH is 8.4

8.4 is quite high....high enough that I'm willing to question the test result.  Reason being that indoors where CO2 naturally builds up from being inhabited by humans, almost everyone struggles to get reef tank pH up to 8.0....with most tanks settling somewhere around pH 7.6 unless special measures are taken.  (No special measures usually need to be taken, however.).  8.4 makes me wonder where your CO2 is. 😉 Can you please try The Aeration Test on a sample that tests that high?

 

Spoiler

Remove a cup of tank water and measure the pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air.

 

(See link with chart in comments below.)

 

Also, what is the tank's apparent temperature?  

 

All numbers rising is usually either due to the salt mix being too strong...or it's a sign of high-rate two-part dosing being done without water changes.  Without those we have to focus on other aspects like the testing itself.

 

If we assume your number for pH is correct....these charts should be pretty interesting:

From: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

Assuming for the moment that your indoor CO2 levels are equal to "Normal CO2" on the chart, an 8.4 pH seems like it should dictate alk of 10.5 dKH.  (10.5 dKH = 3.75 meq/L)

 

But as mentioned, most folks with reef tanks ALSO have people in their house filling the air with CO2....so it's more likely your numbers should be a little more comparable with the "Elevated CO2" curve.

 

Let us know how the aeration test comes out.....or if this is no longer a mystery since I'm a month late to the party. 😉 

[Murphs_Reef]

11 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Every reef in nature has water changes....usually at a rate closer to 100% than 0%. (But there are reefs across that spectrum.)

 

But I'd suggest mixing up some new saltwater, even if only a small portion, to be used as a sanity check/another point of reference...even if you don't use it on the tank.  (But then I'd say why not...don't waste it.)

 

Try to make your comparison this way:

• Test your RODI water.  
• Then mix your carefully measured salt in it and once the water visibly clears (usually 5 minutes if you do a decent job mixing), remeasure everything.  
• Then wait 30-60 minutes (for any possible pH changes) and re-test your new water again.  

Important: Try to maintain the temperature of the sample water at the same temperature as your tank water so your tests of the tank and sample are as comparable as possible.  I'd float the test water in your tank somehow....at least the portion you'll be using in the actual tests, which is only in the mL range.

 

Post up your numbers.  Maybe there will be something interesting.

 

 

 

8.4 is quite high....high enough that I'm willing to question the test result.  Reason being that indoors where CO2 naturally builds up from being inhabited by humans, almost everyone struggles to get reef tank pH up to 8.0....with most tanks settling somewhere around pH 7.6 unless special measures are taken.  (No special measures usually need to be taken, however.).  8.4 makes me wonder where your CO2 is. 😉 Can you please try The Aeration Test on a sample that tests that high?

 

  Hide contents

Remove a cup of tank water and measure the pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air.

 

(See link with chart in comments below.)

 

Also, what is the tank's apparent temperature?  

 

All numbers rising is usually either due to the salt mix being too strong...or it's a sign of high-rate two-part dosing being done without water changes.  Without those we have to focus on other aspects like the testing itself.

 

If we assume your number for pH is correct....these charts should be pretty interesting:

From: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

Assuming for the moment that your indoor CO2 levels are equal to "Normal CO2" on the chart, an 8.4 pH seems like it should dictate alk of 10.5 dKH.  (10.5 dKH = 3.75 meq/L)

 

But as mentioned, most folks with reef tanks ALSO have people in their house filling the air with CO2....so it's more likely your numbers should be a little more comparable with the "Elevated CO2" curve.

 

Let us know how the aeration test comes out.....or if this is no longer a mystery since I'm a month late to the party. 😉 

He's back in town! 👍🏼 It is a problem still as in my numbers are still relatively high compared to what they where before the summer. They however have stabilised and not climbing any longer. 

Thanks for taking the time to reply to this, of course I will do the tests as instructed in your post and come back with numbers 👍🏼

[Murphs_Reef]

picked up this to see if I was actually stuck on 9.3 dKH forever or if my Salifert testing technique is rubbish.. turns out I am a 9.3er 

[sadie]

On 8/8/2021 at 11:18 AM, Murphs_Reef said:

I did think of that as well so washed that out. Then when it was dry i did the TDS on that as well as check the top off chamber in the sump. It's all 2 TDS. It's very odd. I don't want to mix up new salt and change any water out as everything is happy. If I make any sudden changes I'm sure it will rock the boat. 

 

I will get some of the calibration fluid and go from there, though saying that the magnesium test kit is new last week and that was reaching the same result as the old one.

In terms of timeline, Mag starting moving up first then the alk and calcium followed the upward trend. I can't think for the life of me what's changed.. looking at external factors as well.. 

I wouldn't go with the calibration fluid...messed my tank up so bad!!   I had my saliniity up to 1.035!  My fluid wan't even a year old, but I bought another one and had the same problem in only 3 months!  I now calibrate with distilled water.  I no longer use RO water as it did test for DTs.  My distilled water has 0.