Clownfish issue

[mpugh]

Hey all, I recently swapped my clown from a fluval evo into an Aqua one mini reef 180 and he was fine for about 24 hours, now he is lying on the sand bed in the same spot and seems to be breathing heavily, I have noticed today that he seems to be loosing colour from his tail and dorsel fin. 
he was fine in the other tank and now this has happened. I have checked all parameters and they are identical in each tank. 
I have done a 60L water change in the space of 5 days as I can only make 20L of water at a time. 
modes anyone know what could be going on? I have had him for 3 years so would be awful to loose him. 
 

thanks

[M. Tournesol]

As I understand, your parameters were similaire to your old tank 24h ago.

I don't now anything about your clown state, but could you give us your actual/now parameters? (give the numbers even if your parameters are perfect)

it would quicken the discussion when experts come in.

[mpugh]

Ok so my current parameters are:

 

Temp - 27C

SG - 1.026

Ammonia - 0ppm

Nitrite - 0ppm

Nitrate - 10ppm

[Clown79]

There looks to be some spots or rough scales as well as inflammed irritated gills.

 

How was the new tank set up and the swap done? 

Is there a good amount of flow in thw new tank? 

[mpugh]

I got a 2000L per hour return pump and 2 Jebao SW4 wave makers, there’s plenty of flow. 
it was set up with dry rock and a price of live rock from my existing tank, new live sand, cycled over 3 weeks by dosing dr tims ammonium chloride and checked every day. 
my algae blenny, crabs and snails are fine, it’s just the clown. I acclimated them over the course of 45 mins be adding new tank water to a container of old tank water and clown

[Clown79]

3 hours ago, mpugh said:

I got a 2000L per hour return pump and 2 Jebao SW4 wave makers, there’s plenty of flow. 
it was set up with dry rock and a price of live rock from my existing tank, new live sand, cycled over 3 weeks by dosing dr tims ammonium chloride and checked every day. 
my algae blenny, crabs and snails are fine, it’s just the clown. I acclimated them over the course of 45 mins be adding new tank water to a container of old tank water and clown

Maybe it was the acclimation. Ammonia can produce during the acclimation process as well as more stress.

 

I've never drip acclimate my fish, even for tank transfer.

 

 

[mcashatt01]

I'm by no means an expert or even a novice but if your other tank is still going I'd put him back. If temp is the same I'd skip acclimating as well. 

[mpugh]

8 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Maybe it was the acclimation. Ammonia can produce during the acclimation process as well as more stress.

 

I've never drip acclimate my fish, even for tank transfer.

 

 

I thought he may have been stressed out, but I also thought that he may have recovered by now. 
how do you acclimate your new livestock?
 

4 hours ago, mcashatt01 said:

I'm by no means an expert or even a novice but if your other tank is still going I'd put him back. If temp is the same I'd skip acclimating as well. 

the other tank is still going, it’s got my corals in there still. I was thinking about putting him back, but I was also concerned about stressing him out even more. 
 

there is a small update, he isn’t on the bottoms anymore, but rather swimming vertically near the surface, but does seem to have lost a bit more colour

 

[Clown79]

6 hours ago, mpugh said:

I thought he may have been stressed out, but I also thought that he may have recovered by now. 
how do you acclimate your new livestock?
 

the other tank is still going, it’s got my corals in there still. I was thinking about putting him back, but I was also concerned about stressing him out even more. 
 

there is a small update, he isn’t on the bottoms anymore, but rather swimming vertically near the surface, but does seem to have lost a bit more colour

 

I float the bag for 20 - 30 mins then add the fish.

 

With tank transfers, i just add the fish from one tank to another. I ensure salinity and temp are the same, tank is clear, no ammonia, therefore no need for acclimation.

[mpugh]

1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

I float the bag for 20 - 30 mins then add the fish.

 

With tank transfers, i just add the fish from one tank to another. I ensure salinity and temp are the same, tank is clear, no ammonia, therefore no need for acclimation.

Yeah all parameters from old tank to new were all identical. 
The wife has informed me that he is still vertical near the top of the tank, so that should be a good thing right 🤷🏼‍♂️ If he has the strength to keep himself there, then can only hope for the best! 🤞🏻 

[Tamberav]

He may be trying to sit at the top to get oxygen. 

 

I do wonder if there is some sort of disease process going on here...  I see mucus in the photos..

 

[mpugh]

41 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

He may be trying to sit at the top to get oxygen. 

 

I do wonder if there is some sort of disease process going on here...  I see mucus in the photos..

 

Yeah then spots are still there, I have also just noticed what looks like salt creep on the top of his head, but it isn’t salt creep, here are some photos. Any ideas? 

[seabass]

Why do its eyes look as if they are bulging like a bugeye goldfish?  Do you have any earlier pics to compare it to?

 

The shedding almost seems like Brooklynella.  Have you introduced a new fish lately?

[mpugh]

9 minutes ago, seabass said:

Why do its eyes look as if they are bulging like a bugeye goldfish?  Do you have any earlier pics to compare it to?

 

The shedding almost seems like Brooklynella.  Have you introduced a new fish lately?

The only one I can find is from 2019 and it’s eyes look quite large in that 

 

no I haven’t added any fish in about 9 months. The only change is the tank swap

[seabass]

IDK, you sometimes hear about tanks with Ich where fish seem fine/immune, until a stressed fish suddenly becomes infected.  Not sure if this ever happens with Brooklynella.  @Humblefish, any ideas about what's going on?

[Humblefish]

4 hours ago, seabass said:

IDK, you sometimes hear about tanks with Ich where fish seem fine/immune, until a stressed fish suddenly becomes infected.  Not sure if this ever happens with Brooklynella.  @Humblefish, any ideas about what's going on?

Brook is actually infamous for surviving latent in an aquarium. Someone I know had an outbreak of Brook in a nano reef, so she gave them a bath using a product which contains formalin. Against my advice, she put them right back in the DT (no fallow period) and the clownfish didn't have a recurrence. A full year later she moves a couple hours away, breaks down the nano and sets it back up at the new location. Shortly thereafter, the clowns get brook again. She gives them another formalin bath, throws them back in the tank, and it's been a year or two now and all is still well. 🤨

[rough eye]

i forget the name of that virus that's in clownfish, but it's like cold sores in humans, can be there all along, and presents with those bulging eyes as well as white swollen spots on the skin when they get stressed. swimming vertically i'd have questioned oxygen first - is the salinity low enough? is there enough (aerating) flow? temp not too high? 

[mpugh]

So would you recommend putting him in a QT? What should I treat him with and how long should he stay in there?

 

so I have been reading uo about brook on @Humblefish website, very informative!

would a 10L QT be sufficient? 

Edited June 5, 2021 by mpugh

[mpugh]

7 hours ago, rough eye said:

i forget the name of that virus that's in clownfish, but it's like cold sores in humans, can be there all along, and presents with those bulging eyes as well as white swollen spots on the skin when they get stressed. swimming vertically i'd have questioned oxygen first - is the salinity low enough? is there enough (aerating) flow? temp not too high? 

Flow is fine, temp is at 27C and salinity is 1.026

[seabass]

Humblefish recommends "a 45 minute formalin bath (e.g. Quick Cure), followed by transfer into a new/sterile QT."

 

The QT is to hold the fish while Brook is starved off in the display tank (with no fish) for 6 weeks.  But since this fish is in a new tank, you could even hold it in a large bucket while you thoroughly clean out and disinfect this tank (which you could then just put it back in and be done).

 

A ten gallon tank is a little small for an adult clownfish, but I think it'd work out alright for a temporary QT.

 

[mpugh]

The only issue with disinfecting my new tank is I don’t have the facility to make 200L of water in one go as I don’t have a rodi unit yet, it’s on my list, and I can only make 20L at a time

[seabass]

Then I suppose I'd setup a temporary quarantine tank for just long enough for you to sterilize and fill the existing tank (however long that takes).

[mpugh]

26 minutes ago, seabass said:

Then I suppose I'd setup a temporary quarantine tank for just long enough for you to sterilize and fill the existing tank (however long that takes).

How would you sterilise it? 
obviously I don’t want to kill any of my good bacteria. 
 

I know it’s a lot of questions, but i was lucky with my other tank and had no diseases so never had to do any of it. I’m just really surprised that this has now come about after having the clown for 3.5 years and it’s all because of a tank swap

[rough eye]

i was thinking lymphocystis. it's not something you treat, really. just give them a less stressful environment and it will clear up in time (if that's what it actually is). clownfish can have it all their lives and it can occasionally flare up. 

[seabass]

59 minutes ago, mpugh said:

How would you sterilise it?  obviously I don’t want to kill any of my good bacteria.

I'm not entirely sure you can do both (sterilize it, and save the nitrifying bacteria).

 

I was going to suggest a bleach solution to sterilize the tank walls.  Vinegar has some disinfecting ability.  And to be honest, if you wiped the whole tank (and equipment) down with a vinegar solution and rinsed it out well with freshwater, I bet you'd eliminate the Brook from these surfaces.

 

As for the sand and rock, if you want to keep the life (and bacteria) on them, then they should be kept in an aerated tank/container for 6 weeks (to starve out the Brook).  Some people have suggested that rinsing sand in freshwater won't kill off all of the nitrifying bacteria; however, (I'm guessing here) it might be enough to rid the sand of Brook since it's a direct life cycle parasite that lives, feeds and reproduces directly on the fish.

 

If the rock was dry rock, with no other life on it, you could potentially try to rinse it off with freshwater too.  I'd be less optimistic about successfully getting rid of Brook by rinsing it in saltwater; you'd be better off keeping it a fallow environment for 6 weeks.

 

OK, I was just going to erase this and start over, but I'll leave my thought process above. ^

__________

 

I suggest separating the rock and sand in an aerated, fishless container for 6 weeks.  Thoroughly disinfect the tank and equipment with a vinegar solution and set it up as a temporary quarantine tank.  You could add some new sand if you wish.