Lighting For A 22 Long Nano

[Nargard]

Starting my 1st build and am struggling to settle on my lighting. My goal is to create the proper environment for soft corals, LPS, and eventually have the option for SPS. Tank dimensions are 11.5" x 11.5" x 36". This creates a problem of spill over if I go with a Kessil or equivalent. Ideally I'd love to find LED Strips that would do the trick. But there are a lot of average reviews on something like the Current USA Orbit Marine IC PRO LED 4336 Dual Light Fixture with LOOP Bluetooth Control. The PAR values are 700 at the surface to ~200 at 9" depth. Would this be sufficient? I would have them resting on the top of the tank so there'd be no spill over and much better for my living room.

 

If the Current is not advised I'd be interested in any recommendations. Thanks.

[paulsz]

8 hours ago, Nargard said:

he PAR values are 700 at the surface to ~200 at 9" depth. Would this be sufficient?

where did you read the PAR values? Did someone document what they got on their tank using these lights?

 

Softies can live in low PAR (50-150). Same with LPS (75-150). However, i'm sure they can acclimate to higher light slowly (for example, if you wanted them to be somewhere with 200 PAR).

 

SPS usually need no less than 150. Acros need like 350-450 to strive. It's a wide range and something you can definitely find threads on. 

 

 

[mitten_reef]

8 hours ago, Nargard said:

The PAR values are 700 at the surface to ~200 at 9" depth.

the 700 value seems misleading....at surface, surface of what?  the light itself?  cuz that's really high for those strips, I know, I own them - they're bright, but not THAT bright.  surface of water?  you don't place any corals at the surface of water anyway.  So that value is too vague and sorta pointless.  

 

the ~200 seems to match manufacturer's advertised value at the 6-9" from fixture.  https://current-usa.com/orbit-marine-ic-dual-led-pro-bt/  And that is where most of your corals will be since the tank is under 12" tall.  also, I would assume that most/all manufacturers publish based on all channels being 100%, so once you play around with the color aesthetic of the light (i.e. backing down white channel), you may lose some PAR.  

 

Like the earlier commenter said, pretty much everything including SPS will grow under the dual-strip setup with your specific tank, with the exception of most acroporas.  Not to say you can't try acros with higher placement in the tank down the road.  it takes more than lighting to get good at sps in general.  

[ReefGoat]

It really all depends on your budget. For me on my 22g long if I wasn't dead set on T5's ( I love the look of the sunpower fixtures hanging above tank and the colors they produce ). 

 

I would've been torn between two lighting options. 2 kessil 160s or 2 ai primes. I wouldn't have even considered other options. This is just me and my opinion. Take what you will from it. 

[Nargard]

1 hour ago, paulsz said:

where did you read the PAR values? Did someone document what they got on their tank using these lights?

 

Softies can live in low PAR (50-150). Same with LPS (75-150). However, i'm sure they can acclimate to higher light slowly (for example, if you wanted them to be somewhere with 200 PAR).

 

SPS usually need no less than 150. Acros need like 350-450 to strive. It's a wide range and something you can definitely find threads on. 

 

 

I got the data off of the manufacturers specs. Can these not be trusted?

[Nargard]

27 minutes ago, ReefGoat said:

It really all depends on your budget. For me on my 22g long if I wasn't dead set on T5's ( I love the look of the sunpower fixtures hanging above tank and the colors they produce ). 

 

I would've been torn between two lighting options. 2 kessil 160s or 2 ai primes. I wouldn't have even considered other options. This is just me and my opinion. Take what you will from it. 

It really has a lot to do with the light placement and spill over unfortunately. I fully realize the Kessils and ai primes would perform at a higher level for the tank but I need to take into account how it impacts the aesthetics of my living room. Do you find that the spill over is obtrusive? The last thing I want is a beautiful tank but we are blinded by the tank lights. I'm exaggerating a bit here but you know what I mean.

 

I also have a wife who wants a very sleek look with minimal exposed wires, brackets, etc. So I'm hoping to find strips that will do the trick without sacrificing my end goal.

 

Thanks ReefGoat!

[paulsz]

22 minutes ago, Nargard said:

I got the data off of the manufacturers specs. Can these not be trusted?

I couldn't tell you to be honest. I'd be skeptical of any readings I get from a manufacturer, but that's just me. Those could be PAR levels with all channells on 100%, in a perfect tank. Not even sure if it's filled with water or just readings taken in an empty tank. I honestly have no experience with these so I couldn't tell you.

 

I did a quick search on some forums for these lights and they don't seem to perform that well. You may want to go read up on them more though as I only did a really brief search. 

 

Edit: i read a bit more. This light should be okay for softies and LPS. For SPS, not sure. 

[Nargard]

16 minutes ago, paulsz said:

I couldn't tell you to be honest. I'd be skeptical of any readings I get from a manufacturer, but that's just me. Those could be PAR levels with all channells on 100%, in a perfect tank. Not even sure if it's filled with water or just readings taken in an empty tank. I honestly have no experience with these so I couldn't tell you.

 

I did a quick search on some forums for these lights and they don't seem to perform that well. You may want to go read up on them more though as I only did a really brief search. 

 

Edit: i read a bit more. This light should be okay for softies and LPS. For SPS, not sure. 

Ha! Exactly. I read some....no good. I read more....well, maybe. Then...ok, they are good. Then...not so much! What makes it tough is that this is the look I want. But if they won't perform I'll be out $360. Such a tough decision!

 

Thank for the input paulsz!

[Clown79]

59 minutes ago, Nargard said:

It really has a lot to do with the light placement and spill over unfortunately. I fully realize the Kessils and ai primes would perform at a higher level for the tank but I need to take into account how it impacts the aesthetics of my living room. Do you find that the spill over is obtrusive? The last thing I want is a beautiful tank but we are blinded by the tank lights. I'm exaggerating a bit here but you know what I mean.

 

I also have a wife who wants a very sleek look with minimal exposed wires, brackets, etc. So I'm hoping to find strips that will do the trick without sacrificing my end goal.

 

Thanks ReefGoat!

I'll be honest, the light spill over got on my nerves and bothered my eyes. 

 

The current is used by many and will be perfectly fine for lps and softies. Neither need high light and many even after acclimation, don't do well under it.

 

If you do sps, i would stick to easier ones and place them higher in the tank. Like monti digi, stylo, and monti cap. 

 

 

[Tamberav]

If light spillage is a problem then I would build a canopy and install some better lights that way. 

 

Those strips are ok for softies and LPS but also don’t hold value well and I would not count on them for SPS. AI primes and kessil just perform better with better color.

 

 

[NoOneLikesADryTang]

There's also this, for AI Primes. It helps with smoothing out the light ,and keeps the spill in to the room minimized. Just something to else kick around.

 

https://3dreefing.com/products/prime-diffuser

 

For what it's worth, we've got both the regular current orbits, and pro's, and I don't think either would be sufficient for SPS. The regular I wouldn't even recommend for LPS. The regular orbit has been in the closest for at least a year and a half now. 

[Nargard]

1 hour ago, NoOneLikesADryTang said:

There's also this, for AI Primes. It helps with smoothing out the light ,and keeps the spill in to the room minimized. Just something to else kick around.

 

https://3dreefing.com/products/prime-diffuser

 

For what it's worth, we've got both the regular current orbits, and pro's, and I don't think either would be sufficient for SPS. The regular I wouldn't even recommend for LPS. The regular orbit has been in the closest for at least a year and a half now. 

Now that is what I'm talking about. I don't want to go with the Current. This might be the solution. Thank you for the link!

[mcarroll]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:32 AM, Nargard said:

Tank dimensions are 11.5" x 11.5" x 36"

 I assume that means 36" wide, 11.5" thick and 11.5" tall?

On 12/15/2020 at 12:32 AM, Nargard said:

Ideally I'd love to find LED Strips that would do the trick. But there are a lot of average reviews on something like the Current USA Orbit Marine IC PRO LED 4336 Dual Light Fixture with LOOP Bluetooth Control.

You have to get beyond hype if you ever want to think clearly about lighting.  I don't know why it's that way, but it is.  🤷‍♂️

 

Your 36" long 20 gallon is perfect tank for a plain old Orbit Marine.  Wouldn't even require the IC, let alone the Pro kit.  

 

A basic 36" unit (Model 4102) puts down 36 watts.  Note that their PAR graph begins at 6" depth, 120 PAR.  

50% of your tank, vertically speaking, happens BEFORE that mark, getting >120 PAR....probably in the vicinity of 200 PAR close to the surface.  The bottom glass would be getting >50 PAR.

(I think they depict this chart as if the light was on their 90º mounting arms, 6" off the tank.)

 

The strips are great because they rest right on the aquarium rim, so they're almost invisible.  

 

This mounting style also eliminates most of the transmission loss due to air between the tank and the light that elevated mounts cause, so you don't need quite as much power.  (Inverse square law....I think that roughly says that cutting the distance by half doubles intensity.)

 

(Just for comparison, one of my tanks was a 36" long, 19" deep tank called a 37 Gallon.  I had a similar number of watts as the Orbit Marine, though in a different configuration, and the tank was stony corals, mostly on the bottom, and the tank was 50% deeper than yours.)

 

If you change to the IC's you'll want two though as they come with stronger, but more-narrow, 90º optics.  You can see what that does to the relative intensity levels (but not what it does to the coverage area):

 

The IC light will be stronger, but also more focused into the center of the tank, leaving the upper edges either dim or totally unlit.  Using the Current 90º arms (I think two req'd for lights >24") is an option to correct the spread...6" of height happens to be perfect for your tank...it would give 12" spread from front to back.

 

Having dual strips (Model 4226 or 4336) would also take care of top-shading, but you won't want/need them to run at 100% on a tank that shallow:

Again, the chart starts at 6" depth, so 50% of your tank would be >220 PAR.  Maybe pushing 300 PAR at the top.   Everything but the bottom glass would be getting >160 PAR.  (I wouldn't put a big dual-strip setup like this on the 90º arms over a tank this small.  You'll definitely be lighting up the room with a bad percentage of your total watts.)

 

SUMMARY

On a tank that's only 12" deep the plain Orbit with 120º optics is really a perfect fit...at least IMO.  So I'm pretty sure I'd go with one of these, perhaps depending on what your exact plans for the tank are.  The dual-strip setups wouldn't be "too overkill" if you needed a bright-light tank for something.  (Most corals we deal with in the hobby actually seem to favor lower intensities...much lower than conventional wisdom has traditionally said.)

 

The base 36" single-Orbit package seems to go for just a little north of $200.  Not bad for all you get with it.  It's $400 for the IC Pro kit with two strips.  I'm sure a single IC+arms falls somewhere in between.  Any of the three could work fine.

 

On 12/15/2020 at 2:41 PM, Nargard said:

Now that is what I'm talking about. I don't want to go with the Current. This might be the solution. Thank you for the link!

That's going to help with the so-called disco-ball effect.  It is not going to help with coverage.

 

IMO strips are still a better option. 

 

(Or two primes, with or without the diffusers.)

[ajmckay]

Agree that lighting is particularly tough due to the range of applications and the marketing machine over-hyping numbers.  Not to mention it's one of the largest single investments for your tank.

 

FWIW I've had pretty decent luck with Current stuff.  I ran their T5 unit for a long time and it did great in a 12" tank.  I tend to agree with mcarroll that a 12" tank is really shallow and once you add sand and rocks most of your light needs will be between 4" and 9" deep. So don't feel like you have to over-buy here.  I really like the look of the prime units.   To me they help with that high end tank feel.  I don't particularly like the little bendy metal rods that support the current lights.  It looks like they have mounting arms though that let you put them up a bit. The downside there is you're back to the light spill issue potentially.  Good luck!

 

 

 

[Nargard]

You guys are coming with this great info after I've already purchased 2 AI Prime 16HD's! I have yet to receive them so I'm not sure how they will look and how the spill over will be. The brackets actually look pretty cool as they are the rigid 90's and not the flexible arms. We shall see......

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, Nargard said:

You guys are coming with this great info after I've already purchased 2 AI Prime 16HD's!

You have an itchy trigger finger!  😜

 

You've got about 18"x11.5" to light with each spotlight.  Still a decidedly rectangular space for each fixture to cover – not ideal.

 

So with spotlights at 90º, you'll want then around 6" off the tank.  

 

At 90º, the diameter of coverage just happens to be 2x the mounting height, or about 12", so the light will mostly stay contained.  Easy math!  

Something like this, if you're looking at the tank from the narrow end:

 

However it will leave dim zones on the top when you look from the long side:

 

Something like this from a bird's eye view on top down to the rim of the tank:

 

 

If you instead cover the long dimension (18"), you'll need the lights to be 1/3 higher – up around 9" off the tank:

 

A 9" high off the tank you'll have a solid 3" in front and back of the tank full of light spill into the room, wasting a goodly portion of your $$$-watts.  (And messing with your eye health in the process.)

 

Something like this, if you're looking at the tank from the narrow end, though you lose a good percentage of that reflected light depicted inside the tank to light-spilling:

 

Something like this from a bird's eye view on top down to the rim of the tank:

...though light would spread out much further below the rim of the tank...extending out a few feet into the room at floor level.  (An 8' diameter circle of reef light at ground level if your light is four feet off the ground.)

 

All that wasted light should be in the tank being reflected off the inside of the glass back into the tank, onto the corals.  (This is light that is not picked up by typical PAR measurements, BTW, but which corals make great use of.)

 

See what you think when it arrives, maybe it won't seem too bad.  If it does, you can always switch it up later.  👍

[ajmckay]

11 hours ago, Nargard said:

You guys are coming with this great info after I've already purchased 2 AI Prime 16HD's! I have yet to receive them so I'm not sure how they will look and how the spill over will be. The brackets actually look pretty cool as they are the rigid 90's and not the flexible arms. We shall see......

IMO you'll like the prime units...  I really like their sleekness. Also, there's something to be said about non-uniform, point source lighting.  Sometimes having some shadows/highlights can make a tank more interesting IMO.

 

Maybe look into those shrouds - seems like a pretty neat solution.

[NoOneLikesADryTang]

14 hours ago, Nargard said:

You guys are coming with this great info after I've already purchased 2 AI Prime 16HD's! I have yet to receive them so I'm not sure how they will look and how the spill over will be. The brackets actually look pretty cool as they are the rigid 90's and not the flexible arms. We shall see......

You'll like the primes way more than the currents. They're a much better light. 

 

Plus, if you decide you dislike them, they hold their value much better and are much easier to sell than then currents. 

[tmc1313]

I have the exact same tank dimensions. I chose to go with 3 primes because my tank only has SPS. I have mine mounted 11-12 inches above water level. I do have light spill at that height, but for me it's a non issue because the tank is not in the TV room where it would bother me. There are a couple very informative BRS videos on the primes that will help you with mounting height, spacing  and spectrum. Good luck, they are great lights.

[Nargard]

I'm pot committed on the Primes. I bought the diffusers last night. Money back guarantee so I figured it was worth the risk. Great feedback from you guys. It's appreciated.