Ultra Corals Fuzzy Fantasy - Buyer Beware

[FollyFish]

I order this coral from a LFS and it was listed as an LPS that needed low to mid flow and light as well as being peaceful. When I went to pick it up I asked the sales person who brought it out to me if they know what kind of coral it was, she told me it was a Fuzzy Fantasy. I am sure that there is no genus of coral called Fuzzy Fantasy so I brought it home and placed it in a med to low light and med flow and then I did some research and I think it is a Pavona coral but it that is the case then it is a SPS that needs high light and flow and is very aggressive which means I will need to move the coral. First pick is from the website that I ordered it from and second is just after I added to my tank and its still very upset, and third is an overview shot of its current placement in the tank.

 

I saw this from Tidal Gardens and I think it looks very similar. Do you think its a Pavona (cactus coral) or maybe something else?

https://www.tidalgardens.com/stock-green-pavona.html

[mipster]

100% pavnova I think. technically an sps but a very hardy one.

[FollyFish]

7 minutes ago, mipster said:

100% pavnova I think. technically an sps but a very hardy one.

Thanks, not what I was hoping for. My tank is a high nutrient LPS dominate tank, its not really set up for SPS. It was so pretty and on for an amazing sale price. I didn't think to do the research first. 

[mipster]

1 minute ago, FollyFish said:

Thanks, not what I was hoping for. My tank is a high nutrient LPS dominate tank, its not really set up for SPS. It was so pretty and on for an amazing sale price. I didn't think to do the research first. 

Pavnovas are beautiful. I've been looking for a mint Pavnova. Maybe you can take it back? Or find someone local to sell or trade with?

 

[A.m.P]

Freak-hair pavona re-branded and faked to look yellow.
It'll primarily encrust and likely be fine towards the top of an LPS-dominant system, they can have sweepers, nasty-ones at that, but folks like @WV Reefer have had large, peaceful Pavona colonies for quite some time.

Also most SPS are perfectly-happy in high-nutrient tanks, ULNS was a craze over chasing-numbers for pastel-colors.
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.263/

[FollyFish]

4 hours ago, Amphrites said:

Freak-hair pavona re-branded and faked to look yellow.
It'll primarily encrust and likely be fine towards the top of an LPS-dominant system, they can have sweepers, nasty-ones at that, but folks like @WV Reefer have had large, peaceful Pavona colonies for quite some time.

Also most SPS are perfectly-happy in high-nutrient tanks, ULNS was a craze over chasing-numbers for pastel-colors.
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.263/

Thank you Amphrites, I looked up Freak-hair pavona and from the pics I saw on Tidal Gardens your dead on. I also helps that when it started to open up the tips were green not yellow. I have a spot that is high light/high flow but it is only viewable if you are standing at the left side of the tank. I am going to move it to that spot and see if it stays happy, if not then I will sell it (since I'm not interest in switching to a SPS style tank).

[A.m.P]

Glad I could help, it's an awesome coral and I don't blame you at all for wanting it, hope it stays happy in your system, another one of my favorites is pavona maldivensis.

[FollyFish]

Ok so I have never done this before but I posted a review to the website where I got the coral and this is what I said. I gave it a 1 star as that was the lowest I could go, I gave my name and I wrote this, "This coral is a Freak-Hair Pavona, an SPS coral that requires a high flow/ high light and can be very aggressive. I bought this coral based on the description given and after more research found it is unsuitable for my high nutrient LPS tank. In addition this website has the correct coral listed as out of stock for (I give the price). As a final note the picture of the coral is not accurate as the tips are green, not yellow."

 

I am not happy the price of the correctly name coral is 30 dollars lower then what I paid for the misnamed coral on sale. The review is listed as pending on the website. Lets see what happens. I hope that this was just an accident and not intentionally underhanded but I believe that the coral pic was photoshoped and the coral was renamed in order to jack up the price to an outrageous level and then put on "sale" at a higher then normal price point.

 

Here is the pic from the Freak-Hair Pavona off of the website.

[5*Chris]

2 hours ago, FollyFish said:

Ok so I have never done this before but I posted a review to the website where I got the coral and this is what I said. I gave it a 1 star as that was the lowest I could go, I gave my name and I wrote this, "This coral is a Freak-Hair Pavona, an SPS coral that requires a high flow/ high light and can be very aggressive. I bought this coral based on the description given and after more research found it is unsuitable for my high nutrient LPS tank. In addition this website has the correct coral listed as out of stock for (I give the price). As a final note the picture of the coral is not accurate as the tips are green, not yellow."

 

I am not happy the price of the correctly name coral is 30 dollars lower then what I paid for the misnamed coral on sale. The review is listed as pending on the website. Lets see what happens. I hope that this was just an accident and not intentionally underhanded but I believe that the coral pic was photoshoped and the coral was renamed in order to jack up the price to an outrageous level and then put on "sale" at a higher then normal price point.

 

Here is the pic from the Freak-Hair Pavona off of the website.

Not sure if there is any difference, but probably just the name game. Ultra corals offers a fuzzy fantasy coral listed as unknown, and other sellers sell the coral listed as Ultra corals fuzzy fantasy. A quick Google search pulled it up along with hundreds of pictures that would redirect you to freak hair Pavona.

 

http://ultracorals.com/product_info.php?products_id=480

 

Because of that, it's really up to us as buyers to research the corals. I look up every coral I'm buying, even if I'm at a LFS or coral farmer and the coral is right there in front of me. I used to research to make sure I can offer the coral what it needs, but now it's more to see what it looks like in different lighting and as something bigger than I frag, oh and placement. 

 

If you are worried about nutrient levels, I think as long as you are stable, you should be fine. I have a mixed reef, and I love softies. But recently I've been adding a lot more SPS(acros) and they've not only have been fine but they seem to be thriving, encrusting faster than expected and actually growing. And too be honest I'm not even sure I'm on point with stability, but just consistent with what I do. 

 

If you're worried about temperament of the coral, place it somewhere safe. Also take into account lighting and flow needs when you find it's safe spot.

 

I have a red Pavona(one of my first corals, that I bought from Petco🤭) and love it, awesome growth pattern. It's been with me through my first tank stage and not understanding anything I was doing, a tank crash, an @sshole LM blenny that ate anything encrusting, and a couple tank changes. 

 

 

 

 

[A.m.P]

It's definitely possible they used a stock photo from another vendor and were themselves taken-for-a-ride, Freak-hair can look off-yellow under very, very white lighting, but even Metal Halide users have moved-on towards 15000+k.

[FollyFish]

6 hours ago, 5*Chris said:

Not sure if there is any difference, but probably just the name game. Ultra corals offers a fuzzy fantasy coral listed as unknown, and other sellers sell the coral listed as Ultra corals fuzzy fantasy. A quick Google search pulled it up along with hundreds of pictures that would redirect you to freak hair Pavona.

 

http://ultracorals.com/product_info.php?products_id=480

 

Because of that, it's really up to us as buyers to research the corals. I look up every coral I'm buying, even if I'm at a LFS or coral farmer and the coral is right there in front of me. I used to research to make sure I can offer the coral what it needs, but now it's more to see what it looks like in different lighting and as something bigger than I frag, oh and placement. 

 

If you are worried about nutrient levels, I think as long as you are stable, you should be fine. I have a mixed reef, and I love softies. But recently I've been adding a lot more SPS(acros) and they've not only have been fine but they seem to be thriving, encrusting faster than expected and actually growing. And too be honest I'm not even sure I'm on point with stability, but just consistent with what I do. 

 

If you're worried about temperament of the coral, place it somewhere safe. Also take into account lighting and flow needs when you find it's safe spot.

 

I have a red Pavona(one of my first corals, that I bought from Petco🤭) and love it, awesome growth pattern. It's been with me through my first tank stage and not understanding anything I was doing, a tank crash, an @sshole LM blenny that ate anything encrusting, and a couple tank changes. 

 

 

 

 

I have some problems with the "its on the buyer to do research" when it comes to this hobby. Here are some of the reasons why.

 

1) The big reason in my opinion is that it takes away any onus on the seller to be truthful. IF the seller lies or misleads in the advertising then they can get away with it because the buyer should have done the "research". If it was anything else that was being bought the onus is on the seller to be factual about the condition and quality. Could you imagine buying a car and not being told that it had been in 2 accidents and the transmission needs to be replaced in 6 months? But buying the lemon is the fault of the buyer for not doing the research on the background of the car and not on the licensed used car salesman.

 

2) The buyer is expected to be the expert. I bought a car, a computer, a coffee maker...I am not the expert in any of these things. I go to an expert for information because I am not one. I would expect them to be truthful regarding my questions even if the answer is "I don't know." How would you feel if you went to a store that specializes in computers told them what you need the computer for and then they sold you something completely different and unusable for your needs. I would give some leway if I had gone to a store like Petsmart (big box) that doesn't specialize and has children/young adults working for extra money. But I went to a boutique store that specialize in corals (shopped local and little), has more then one location and even has corals in the name of the store. I would expect them to be the expert.

 

3) Garbage in, garbage out. I have heard of this expression in the use of computer coding, database analytics and in stats. It means that if you add useless/wrong information then that is what you will get. In this case all of the information that was on the website was incorrect. Yet somehow it is on the buyer to know that the information is incorrect and still manage to get to the right conclusions. Think about it, you go online and look at stock kitchen cabinets, the color is listed, the price is listed, the sizes are listed and the type of wood. You buy the cabinets take them home and find out the size, the color and the wood type are wrong. How is it any different from what I did?

 

In this hobby bad sellers and store owners are still in this business because of the idea that "buyers should do research" and the experts don't have to have any accountability.

[A.m.P]

It's a very 80's americana... belief. It boils-down to a kind of passive or nascent "I got mineism" that's exceedingly pervasive in certain cultural circles south of the border.

It's an odd way of dodging and deflecting calls for accountability, decency, or responsibility from retailers, but "something, something hustle".

Again, it's distinctly possible the retailer got played and just unknowingly passed it on, the problem with this type of situation is that it's always exponential, crushes interest and trust in the hobby from outsiders/newcomers, and bottom-line hurts hobbyists.

[Tired]

I think someone selling a live animal should always be sure to provide the correct name for the animal. It's important to research an animal you plan to buy, but you have to have the right name for it to do that. And it's good for them to give you the basics. 

 

Some coral sellers don't provide any care info at all, leaving it up to the buyer to find out even the most basic information about lighting. I'm not much of a fan of that, but I can do research. What really gets me is when they provide wrong info. I haven't seen any quite as strong as your example, but I have seen a few listings that recommend the wrong lighting or flow, which isn't great. Lack of information is workable, bad information can be dangerous.

[5*Chris]

1 hour ago, FollyFish said:

I have some problems with the "its on the buyer to do research" when it comes to this hobby. Here are some of the reasons why.

 

1) The big reason in my opinion is that it takes away any onus on the seller to be truthful. IF the seller lies or misleads in the advertising then they can get away with it because the buyer should have done the "research". If it was anything else that was being bought the onus is on the seller to be factual about the condition and quality. Could you imagine buying a car and not being told that it had been in 2 accidents and the transmission needs to be replaced in 6 months? But buying the lemon is the fault of the buyer for not doing the research on the background of the car and not on the licensed used car salesman.

 

2) The buyer is expected to be the expert. I bought a car, a computer, a coffee maker...I am not the expert in any of these things. I go to an expert for information because I am not one. I would expect them to be truthful regarding my questions even if the answer is "I don't know." How would you feel if you went to a store that specializes in computers told them what you need the computer for and then they sold you something completely different and unusable for your needs. I would give some leway if I had gone to a store like Petsmart (big box) that doesn't specialize and has children/young adults working for extra money. But I went to a boutique store that specialize in corals (shopped local and little), has more then one location and even has corals in the name of the store. I would expect them to be the expert.

 

3) Garbage in, garbage out. I have heard of this expression in the use of computer coding, database analytics and in stats. It means that if you add useless/wrong information then that is what you will get. In this case all of the information that was on the website was incorrect. Yet somehow it is on the buyer to know that the information is incorrect and still manage to get to the right conclusions. Think about it, you go online and look at stock kitchen cabinets, the color is listed, the price is listed, the sizes are listed and the type of wood. You buy the cabinets take them home and find out the size, the color and the wood type are wrong. How is it any different from what I did?

 

In this hobby bad sellers and store owners are still in this business because of the idea that "buyers should do research" and the experts don't have to have any accountability.

I'll try to keep it short, because my original response wasn't to place blame on you, as I do agree that misleading info isn't fault of a buyer. In fact I didn't mean to place blame on you or the seller. 

 

#1. Just like I research all of the corals I purchase, I always carfax vehicles lol. Without knowing whether or not they intentionally mislead you is only known by the seller. Unfortunately we live in a world where people are untruthful and not as knowledgeable as they should be. Not saying that about the seller, because i have zero experience with them. Unless I know you, I have no reason to trust you. But it's not about trust when I research whatever it is I'm interested in. I'm researching because I'm interested in knowing. 

 

#2. Again I research, so i wouldn't find myself making a purchase for something I didn't want.

 

#3. Again misleading info obviously isn't fault of buyer. So get a refund, like I would if I was shipped the wrong size/color cabinets 🤷🏽‍♂️, easy peezy. 

 

I really didn't mean to make it seem like I was saying it was your fault. I was just saying the name game of corals is likely at fault. For instance, I've been wanting some white zombie zoas, almost bought some recently, but because of the name game I decided to buy agave seductions instead. They look like the same zoas, but for a lot less. 

 

I've rambled. Hope you get it figured out. 

 

 

 

 

[mipster]

48 minutes ago, Tired said:

Lack of information is workable, bad information can be dangerous.

I bet this is largely why some LFS avoid providing information. If something goes wrong with the information that they provided, the buyers would try to hold them liable and it puts the LFS in more of a position of risk.

 

 

[Tired]

I think if there was any real risk of a LFS being held liable for bad information, there would be way fewer places that confidently gave out advice like "sure, a bowl is fine for your goldfish" and "yeah, I can definitely sell you a Dory for your new tank". Unfortunately, there are very few legal protections for fish, in terms of making people keep them properly. Same for things like mice and hamsters. There's nothing to stop me from putting 20 goldfish in a 5-gallon tank, at least legally, even though I shouldn't be allowed to do that. Plus, because of all the misinformation, the general public has a misconception that fish just die easily for no reason. Even if someone got it into their head to sue a LFS for bad advice, I think they'd have a really hard time actually proving that, A, they got the advice there in the first place, and B, the advice killed their animals. 

 

And I don't think I've ever heard of a LFS not giving out information? If you ask a direct question, at least, they'll answer. Sometimes they just answer wrong.