thinking about starting a nano fish tank

[Guest]

 I have been in the freshwater planted aquarium hobby for around 7 years, and I understand co2 and fertilizers, but I just really cant wrap my head around saltwater. I am thinking about starting a really really tiny saltwater aquarium, not fish, just a couple shrimp or mini little crabs, and ideally a couple of coral frags. I dont know what the minimun size for something like this is, and dont know if I need a protien skimmer, a filter, or if I need a power head, I have done a little reading, but still just dont understand.

 

 In my head, I just need to go out and buy for example a 2.5 gallon Dennerele Scapers tank, get a replacement light meant for coral, use the little filter included and add some live sand and rock. then fill it up with pre bought saltwater, get a couple of shrimp or crabs to get the cycling going, and when it comes time to top it off, use freshwater. then because of the lack of a protien skimmer do water changes every couple of weeks, I know I could just go out and do it but I have a feeling a lot of this is incorrect.

[Chadicus Meridius]

I’m not sure how much I can say because I’m really new to the hobby aswell (6 months) but I personally would not cycle with and creatures in the tank especially an invertebrate. I recently just picked up my first crab. 
 

also research , research , research.

[growsomething]

Do it.  Maybe buy live rock to minimize/eliminate the cycle.  Use rodi top off water. Get cheap coral and just start.  You WILL change your mind about what you want to do and how to do it, but only by doing something 👍🏼

 

You don't need a skimmer or filter for what you are thinking of keeping, but you do need circulation.

 

Look up some pico reef builds.

 

@WV Reefer has a "dirty" 12 g tank that i think uses minimal equipment and no filtration.

 

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, growsomething said:

Do it.  Maybe buy live rock to minimize/eliminate the cycle.  Use rodi top off water. Get cheap coral and just start.  You WILL change your mind about what you want to do and how to do it, but only by doing something 👍🏼

 

You don't need a skimmer or filter for what you are thinking of keeping, but you do need circulation.

 

Look up some pico reef builds.

 

@WV Reefer has a "dirty" 12 g tank that i think uses minimal equipment and no filtration.

 

 

this was really helpful, thank you o much for  the advice!

[Clown79]

to do what you plan for a reef tank is pretty simple.

 

You could do a 2-4g that's either an all in one tank or use a hang on filter using custom media( you don't want to use the media that comes with the filter as its meant to be used for freshwater)

 

You should cycle a tank with no livestock in it.

 

There are 3 good options

 

Dry rock cycling - this is reef rock that is dry and has no life on it. You will need to add an ammonia source and bacteria supplement. Good products is Dr Tims ammonia and Biospira bacteria supplement. 

 

Cured Liverock - this rock is from an established tank with life in it. There should be no cycle with this rock as its established and it should be kept wet to prevent any die off.

 

Liverock - store often keep a bunch of liverock in a bin with water movement. This is often full of detritus and even decaying matter. It's still good to use as it does come with a diversity of life but it will go through a cycle. You can add a bacteria supplement like biospira but no ammonia source is required.

 

Sand - this is optional. Some like a bare bottom look while other like half an inch to 1.5 inches.

 

a powerhead is definitely a good thing to have especially with corals. Not only does it provide oxygen and helps with gas exchange but it brings food to the corals and moves things into the filter. for a small tank look into the hydor 240 or the pico evo mag. Another option is a small fountain pump on amazon. they are pretty cheap.

 

There is no need for a skimmer, its not necessary on most nano's or picos.

 

 on such a small system, weekly waterchanges are needed. Often 50% is a preferred amount on a pico tank. It's really easy and fast on such a small system.

 

 

on a tank this small you will need to top up daily manually or get an auto top up system. It only takes a few seconds to top up.

 

a heater is needed but don't get one of the preset betta heaters. They have no temp control to them and overheat the tank.

I personally had good experiences using the tetra 2-15g heater. always kept my 2.5 and pico jar at 78.

 

 

When your tank is cycled( you will need to test during it), you then do a large waterchange(size often depends on final nitrate levels), then you can add a couple of crabs and go from there.

 

Check out the contests we did in the pico section. We did reef jars and a 2.5g contest. There is a ton of valuable info that can be found in everyones threads.

 

Hope this helps, if you have any specific questions or clarification, just ask. Once you know what tank you are definitely going with we can help choosing a light and even filter media

 

there are a lot of great sticky threads here with tons of great info. Checking out member journals and TOTM are really helpful as well.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Clown79 said:

to do what you plan for a reef tank is pretty simple.

 

You could do a 2-4g that's either an all in one tank or use a hang on filter using custom media( you don't want to use the media that comes with the filter as its meant to be used for freshwater)

 

You should cycle a tank with no livestock in it.

 

There are 3 good options

 

Dry rock cycling - this is reef rock that is dry and has no life on it. You will need to add an ammonia source and bacteria supplement. Good products is Dr Tims ammonia and Biospira bacteria supplement. 

 

Cured Liverock - this rock is from an established tank with life in it. There should be no cycle with this rock as its established and it should be kept wet to prevent any die off.

 

Liverock - store often keep a bunch of liverock in a bin with water movement. This is often full of detritus and even decaying matter. It's still good to use as it does come with a diversity of life but it will go through a cycle. You can add a bacteria supplement like biospira but no ammonia source is required.

 

Sand - this is optional. Some like a bare bottom look while other like half an inch to 1.5 inches.

 

a powerhead is definitely a good thing to have especially with corals. Not only does it provide oxygen and helps with gas exchange but it brings food to the corals and moves things into the filter. for a small tank look into the hydor 240 or the pico evo mag. Another option is a small fountain pump on amazon. they are pretty cheap.

 

There is no need for a skimmer, its not necessary on most nano's or picos.

 

 on such a small system, weekly waterchanges are needed. Often 50% is a preferred amount on a pico tank. It's really easy and fast on such a small system.

 

 

on a tank this small you will need to top up daily manually or get an auto top up system. It only takes a few seconds to top up.

 

a heater is needed but don't get one of the preset betta heaters. They have no temp control to them and overheat the tank.

I personally had good experiences using the tetra 2-15g heater. always kept my 2.5 and pico jar at 78.

 

 

When your tank is cycled( you will need to test during it), you then do a large waterchange(size often depends on final nitrate levels), then you can add a couple of crabs and go from there.

 

Check out the contests we did in the pico section. We did reef jars and a 2.5g contest. There is a ton of valuable info that can be found in everyones threads.

 

Hope this helps, if you have any specific questions or clarification, just ask. Once you know what tank you are definitely going with we can help choosing a light and even filter media

 

there are a lot of great sticky threads here with tons of great info. Checking out member journals and TOTM are really helpful as well.

Thanks for the info! Turns out coral is in many ways very much like plants, and in many ways very different from them, I thought I would have a head start from freshwater but oh boy was I wrong, they are very very very! Different!

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, FreshwaterFishMan said:

Thanks for the info! Turns out coral is in many ways very much like plants, and in many ways very different from them, I thought I would have a head start from freshwater but oh boy was I wrong, they are very very very! Different!

Very true. There is a lot of similar aspects with a lot of differences.

 

 

[Guest]

On 7/27/2020 at 10:03 AM, Clown79 said:

Very true. There is a lot of similar aspects with a lot of differences.

 

 

after much more reaserch, I have come to a few conclusions on some equitment, here are what I ahve found so far:

 

the tank:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Marineland-ML90609-Portrait-Aquarium-5-Gallon/dp/B00O8SZTKQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=marineland+portrait+5+gallon&qid=1596040990&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyMFdNRjJLQkZDNDlSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDgyOTcwMTQ3N0JFTUdUR1kyRCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDEzMTIwMU9VN0RFNUUxWk44USZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

for the filtration I was just going to takeout whatever carbon filter is included and just go for the mechanical stuff, is this enough filtration? also, is the pump strong enough for the coral?

 

the light:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Marine-Aquarium-Clip-Light/dp/B07DT6YY8D/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=coralife+light&qid=1596041369&s=amazon-devices&sr=1-1

 

the light included with the tank didnt seem right for coral, and so this seemend like a decent but inexpensive alternative soulution. what do you hink about it?

 

the substrate:

 

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/dwwi-20-ba-live-aragont-nwht

 

I know that it isnt instant cycling, but I was hoping live sand could cut the cycling period down to a couple of weeks

 

for the rock I would probably either be using dry base rock or live rock from my local specialists store, and then just getting the cheapest coral possible 🙂

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, FreshwaterFishMan said:

after much more reaserch, I have come to a few conclusions on some equitment, here are what I ahve found so far:

 

the tank:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Marineland-ML90609-Portrait-Aquarium-5-Gallon/dp/B00O8SZTKQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=marineland+portrait+5+gallon&qid=1596040990&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyMFdNRjJLQkZDNDlSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDgyOTcwMTQ3N0JFTUdUR1kyRCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDEzMTIwMU9VN0RFNUUxWk44USZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

for the filtration I was just going to takeout whatever carbon filter is included and just go for the mechanical stuff, is this enough filtration? also, is the pump strong enough for the coral?

 

the light:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Marine-Aquarium-Clip-Light/dp/B07DT6YY8D/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=coralife+light&qid=1596041369&s=amazon-devices&sr=1-1

 

the light included with the tank didnt seem right for coral, and so this seemend like a decent but inexpensive alternative soulution. what do you hink about it?

 

the substrate:

 

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/dwwi-20-ba-live-aragont-nwht

 

I know that it isnt instant cycling, but I was hoping live sand could cut the cycling period down to a couple of weeks

 

for the rock I would probably either be using dry base rock or live rock from my local specialists store, and then just getting the cheapest coral possible 🙂

You can use the tank but the filter media will need upgrading and what everyone uses is different.

Common: filter floss and a bag of carbon

 

As for the pump, i didn't see any gph listed but its most likely not going to be enough flow for corals.

 

A powerhead will be needed in the tank.

 

The light is definitely not going to cut it for corals. That is for fish only, won't even be enough for low light plants.

 

 

Livesand does very little for a cycle. Its all about the rock.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

You can use the tank but the filter media will need upgrading and what everyone uses is different.

Common: filter floss and a bag of carbon

 

As for the pump, i didn't see any gph listed but its most likely not going to be enough flow for corals.

 

A powerhead will be needed in the tank.

 

The light is definitely not going to cut it for corals. That is for fish only, won't even be enough for low light plants.

 

 

Livesand does very little for a cycle. Its all about the rock.

Okay! Thanks for the info, it really seems like a kit isn’t the way to go so I will just be buying a basic glass aquarium, and definitely buying some better quality equipment, and doing live rock 🙂

 

[DISQUALIFIED-QQ]

If youre in the US of A, Petco has their dollar per gallon sale.

 

You can cycle with a fish, a dead one. I cut up a piece of frozen silverside and let it rot out for a week. I poured a big bottle of Bio-spira to inoculate the tank. I was using the CaribSea Life Rock, not to be confused with live rock. It's a painted purple dry rock with supposedly dry colony forming units of bacteria. I didn't want to take my chances so I just went with the hobby staple bacteria. (or use Dr. Tim's, both some patents).

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, FreshwaterFishMan said:

Okay! Thanks for the info, it really seems like a kit isn’t the way to go so I will just be buying a basic glass aquarium, and definitely buying some better quality equipment, and doing live rock 🙂

 

A lot of tank kits need some type of upgrading, often filter/pumps.

 

The marinelands are designed for freshwater and completely fine to use but need some upgrades.

 

A powerhead is often going to be needed regardless of the tank as well as filter media. 

 

 

Cycling is another situation. 

 

Established(cured) liverock comes from a tank with life in it. This rock shouldn't go through a cycle unless you let the rock dry. Possibly a mini cycle but often not if its truly established liverock.

 

Liverock- often kept in a bin of water with flow. This rock will cycle as it often has decaying matter/detritus.

It also comes with a lot of biodiversity.

Simply add some biospira and allow it to cycle on its own(testing to monitor)

 

Dry rock- this has no life on it and needs an ammonia source and bacteria added to start the cycle.

Caribsea liferock is great. Its purple and infused with bacteria.

Then there is reef rock which is white.

Either one will need an ammonia source and something like biospira.

 

Using Dr Tims ammonia is the best choice as its clean and far more accurate than the shrimp or feeding methods.

[Poison Dart Frog]

On 7/26/2020 at 12:58 PM, FreshwaterFishMan said:

 I have been in the freshwater planted aquarium hobby for around 7 years, and I understand co2 and fertilizers, but I just really cant wrap my head around saltwater. I am thinking about starting a really really tiny saltwater aquarium, not fish, just a couple shrimp or mini little crabs, and ideally a couple of coral frags. I dont know what the minimun size for something like this is, and dont know if I need a protien skimmer, a filter, or if I need a power head, I have done a little reading, but still just dont understand.

 

 In my head, I just need to go out and buy for example a 2.5 gallon Dennerele Scapers tank, get a replacement light meant for coral, use the little filter included and add some live sand and rock. then fill it up with pre bought saltwater, get a couple of shrimp or crabs to get the cycling going, and when it comes time to top it off, use freshwater. then because of the lack of a protien skimmer do water changes every couple of weeks, I know I could just go out and do it but I have a feeling a lot of this is incorrect.

I used the 5 gallon boxes of ocean water from Petco for my first pico tank for several months and just got a couple of live rocks out of a friend's tank (Petco also sells live rock and you'd only need like one small piece for a 2.5 gallon tank). You could also add some bacteria such as Biospira then add your crabs or shrimp. Then in a few weeks you could add some coral frags. It's pretty much that simple, especially if you have ocean water on hand. You can just do a 50% water change every week to maintain things. Also, you can just use distilled water from the grocery store to top the tank off with fresh water for now (or the cheaper RO water from walmart where you bring your own just for .33 a gallon). 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Diamonds x Pearls said:

If youre in the US of A, Petco has their dollar per gallon sale.

 

You can cycle with a fish, a dead one. I cut up a piece of frozen silverside and let it rot out for a week. I poured a big bottle of Bio-spira to inoculate the tank. I was using the CaribSea Life Rock, not to be confused with live rock. It's a painted purple dry rock with supposedly dry colony forming units of bacteria. I didn't want to take my chances so I just went with the hobby staple bacteria. (or use Dr. Tim's, both some patents).

Thanks so much for the info! I actually was looking around there, and well, I might now be in possession of a 20 gallon....... soooooo a lot has changed n well the size I am looking into 😉

 

[growsomething]

You can upgrade the pump that comes with an aio kit tank instead of using a powerhead if it takes up too much tank space.  I swapped my I.M. stock pump out for a 1.0 Sicce and it is more than enough for my 10g.  You would need to do a little research to make sure an upgrade will fit in the back.

Lots of ppl are going with a Lowes or H.D. goosneck light for cheap, and buying a quality par 38 bulb.  Might want to look that up as well.  I can't really speak to lighting info much.

[Poison Dart Frog]

LOL Good choice. I upgraded to a 20H for my 3rd tank after 2 pico tanks and I'd say the 20 gallon is easier to maintain, it just takes longer to look filled in with coral growth. But now you have a lot more choices for what to put in it... like actual fish. 

[growsomething]

I de-rimmed a petco 10g once and it looked good.  

So, what does "might be in possesion" mean? 😏

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

A lot of tank kits need some type of upgrading, often filter/pumps.

 

The marinelands are designed for freshwater and completely fine to use but need some upgrades.

 

A powerhead is often going to be needed regardless of the tank as well as filter media. 

 

 

Cycling is another situation. 

 

Established(cured) liverock comes from a tank with life in it. This rock shouldn't go through a cycle unless you let the rock dry. Possibly a mini cycle but often not if its truly established liverock.

 

Liverock- often kept in a bin of water with flow. This rock will cycle as it often has decaying matter/detritus.

It also comes with a lot of biodiversity.

Simply add some biospira and allow it to cycle on its own(testing to monitor)

 

Dry rock- this has no life on it and needs an ammonia source and bacteria added to start the cycle.

Caribsea liferock is great. Its purple and infused with bacteria.

Then there is reef rock which is white.

Either one will need an ammonia source and something like biospira.

 

Using Dr Tims ammonia is the best choice as its clean and far more accurate than the shrimp or feeding methods.

Thanks so much for the info! I found a dollar per gallon sale at PetCo, and just because of that a LOT has changed 😉 I will be buying a 400 gph powerhead and doing dry sand, but live rock. I already have a FluvalSmart light meant for plants that is oversized, so I will just be changing the light levels, and going for more blues and purples and less whites, and have yet to figure out a filter, but that will be soon 🙂

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, growsomething said:

You can upgrade the pump that comes with an aio kit tank instead of using a powerhead if it takes up too much tank space.  I swapped my I.M. stock pump out for a 1.0 Sicce and it is more than enough for my 10g.  You would need to do a little research to make sure an upgrade will fit in the back.

Lots of ppl are going with a Lowes or H.D. goosneck light for cheap, and buying a quality par 38 bulb.  Might want to look that up as well.  I can't really speak to lighting info much.

I discussed a lot of that in my last post, so that is what I am planning on for that 🙂

[Poison Dart Frog]

This is probably even more addicting than planted tanks. You've been warned, lol.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Poison Dart Frog said:

LOL Good choice. I upgraded to a 20H for my 3rd tank after 2 pico tanks and I'd say the 20 gallon is easier to maintain, it just takes longer to look filled in with coral growth. But now you have a lot more choices for what to put in it... like actual fish. 

Yup! That is one of the reasons I went for it 🙂 And since I am too scared to put expensive Cora in a first, I am starting with some nice macro algae and then moving on up.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, growsomething said:

I de-rimmed a petco 10g once and it looked good.  

So, what does "might be in possesion" mean? 😏

Wellllll................. yes I own it 🤫

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Poison Dart Frog said:

This is probably even more addicting than planted tanks. You've been warned, lol.

Just a question before I get to exited, I own a fluvalsmart planted light from an old tank, and since it is slightly oversized was wondering if I can just adjust the spectrum to be more blues and purples and less whites, or how could I make that work?

[Poison Dart Frog]

Just now, FreshwaterFishMan said:

Just a question before I get to exited, I own a fluvalsmart planted light from an old tank, and since it is slightly oversized was wondering if I can just adjust the spectrum to be more blues and purples and less whites, or how could I make that work?

It might be really good for macro algae (not sure, but maybe), but for coral you may have to get a different light. If you had access to a PAR meter to measure the intensity of the light, you'd be able to know for sure though. It's probably good enough to get started though, and may be fine for some low light requiring corals. I have a fairly weak light on my 20 gallon and have to keep the white spectrum up higher than I'd like to get enough PAR to grow corals, even though the light is made for saltwater (Current USA brand). 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Poison Dart Frog said:

It might be really good for macro algae (not sure, but maybe), but for coral you may have to get a different light. If you had access to a PAR meter to measure the intensity of the light, you'd be able to know for sure though. It's probably good enough to get started though, and may be fine for some low light requiring corals. I have a fairly weak light on my 20 gallon and have to keep the white spectrum up higher than I'd like to get enough PAR to grow corals, even though the light is made for saltwater (Current USA brand). 

Okay! Thanks 🙂 I am planning on starting out with macro algae so this do do well starting out until I can invest in something meant for coral 🙂