Lighting debate

[A.m.P]

So I'm back to debating lighting and need some advice from guru's and those with hands-on experience.

 

I have a janked-up 33 and a touch breeder I've done as a volume-limit compromise by defiling an aqueon 40 breeder. On the short-side is a 6" area for a nice skimmer and the return pump.

 

My main question is what lighting solution would work best for this footprint? I've got some macros and easy Monti's, might do some lobos and highish-light softies like pink nepthea or a Fiji leather.

 

My thoughts/options are; a two year old radion gen1 with TIR lenses I bought from a chap who had it in a storage unit in Idaho, a maxspect razor r420 120w with the 120 degree optics and newly replaced pucks, or just selling those and buying 5 or 6 par bulbs for a bunch of spread given the mounting height is going to be pretty-easy to get to 15"+ above the water line. 

 

Main reason for considering the PAR bulbs is they have a decent spectrum and I'm currently having decent success with them, my perc clown also seems to go breserk with the maxspect's moonlights so the tank is liable to be blacked out at night anyway (might get some UV strips just for night lighting and maybe as a supplement to the radion).

 

Anyone have some thoughts, I'm having a hard time deciding lol.

[Tamberav]

Only thing I don't like about par bulbs over larger tanks is the numerous plugs and timers needed.

 

I have been looking at reef breeders photons recently after coming across a few impressive tanks with them (since nanobox is gone).

[A.m.P]

25 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Only thing I don't like about par bulbs over larger tanks is the numerous plugs and timers needed.

 

I have been looking at reef breeders photons recently after coming across a few impressive tanks with them (since nanobox is gone).

I've heard decent things myself, but they don't really make an appropriate size or pricepoint for me, was hawking used for a while but most were asking retail for 2 year old fixtures lol...
For the PAR bulb I was just going to get a smart-strip with timers built into it.

[jservedio]

If you've got the Radion, just toss the 120 degree optics on it and be done with it and you can stop spending money! I'll be using my current Radion which has the 120 degree optics over my new 24x24" 50g - it's more than enough light even if you plan on growing acros on the sandbed in the corners. I wouldn't think twice about using it on a 30-32" cube so long as it wasn't deeper than 24".

[A.m.P]

1 hour ago, jservedio said:

If you've got the Radion, just toss the 120 degree optics on it and be done with it and you can stop spending money! I'll be using my current Radion which has the 120 degree optics over my new 24x24" 50g - it's more than enough light even if you plan on growing acros on the sandbed in the corners. I wouldn't think twice about using it on a 30-32" cube so long as it wasn't deeper than 24".

Come to think of it... I don't know if the TIR lenses the chap before me put on were the 80's or the 120's...

Also, can't be sure that it's only 2 years old XD I can hope, but the Gen one's have a reputation for sticking around for a decade anyway.

Tank's a 40-breeder with a extra few empty inches of air to keep the volume lower for the landlords.

Any advice on programs? I have the AB+ preset meant for the gen2's minus UV (since Gen 1's don't have any) running at like 30-40%ish power, was considering buying a UV led strip for a nightlight, but mostly just for fun.

[jservedio]

18 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

Come to think of it... I don't know if the TIR lenses the chap before me put on were the 80's or the 120's...

Also, can't be sure that it's only 2 years old XD I can hope, but the Gen one's have a reputation for sticking around for a decade anyway.

Tank's a 40-breeder with a extra few empty inches of air to keep the volume lower for the landlords.

Any advice on programs? I have the AB+ preset meant for the gen2's minus UV (since Gen 1's don't have any) running at like 30-40%ish power, was considering buying a UV led strip for a nightlight, but mostly just for fun.

 

My XR30 Pro G2 is gotta be getting close to 8 years old now, so yeah, they definitely go the distance. I have been using the same custom program I made since I got it, long before AB+ and the other presets were even a thing.

 

Here is the XML from the ETF file: https://pastebin.com/c1PYMT4y

This is what it looks like in EcoSmartLive:

[A.m.P]

Yeah, the one thing which concerns me is just how much better a light the gen2 or pro are considered when compared to the gen1.
Thanks for sharing the profile!

[Reefkid88]

Sell the leds,get a SunBlaze 24" 4 bulb t5 fixture for $130 and 4 bulbs. Problem solved. 

[A.m.P]

22 minutes ago, Reefkid88 said:

Sell the leds,get a SunBlaze 24" 4 bulb t5 fixture for $130 and 4 bulbs. Problem solved. 

Super tempted, but the recurring cost of the bulbs is an issue for someone who rebuilt the Razor for 180 and snagged the radion from an out-of-state 2018 listing for 160.
I don't have allot to play with lol, T5's add up, otherwise I'm way more familiar with them and know they still bloody grow animals like crazy, no shadow-spots, no hotspots...

[Reefkid88]

 I mean,$100 basically a year isn't terrible when you have as many perks as you do with t5's on a larger tank. 

 

 I do understand where you are coming from,but idk its just me. I would do a hybrid on a tank that size but like I said that is me. 

[mcarroll]

On 7/14/2020 at 12:10 PM, Amphrites said:

40 breeder.

So are you lighting the whole breeder or is there a utility/sump compartment that will remain unlit?  Not sure I'm clear on it from your description.

 

Assuming you're lighting the whole tank (36x18" footprint) then a spotlight fixture (eg Radion) isn't ideal to light a rectangular tank.....dark ends or spilled light over the front and back result.

 

It seems like the Razor ought to give you the better spread for this tank shape since there are at least two groups of emitters built in.  Since you're only filling it part-way up, intensity shouldn't be an issue.

 

Dunno what wattage your PAR lights would be, but that's also an option I like better...go for two or three at least, depending on their specs....six if they are low power.

 

Are you trying to mount the lights higher or lower, or doesn't matter to you?  Need narrow/stronger optics for higher mounting.

[A.m.P]

Planning to mount around 15" if PAR bulbs, the radion's an XR30 so it has two pucks and would be on its' arm mount so like 15", the Maxspect has its' 6" arms so like 8-10" or so off the water line.
 I'm leaning towards the PAR bulbs too - they put out some impressive PAR and having 5 or 6 would give some great coverage and avoid shadows with the only real downside being a timed-powerstip.
Ah and the breeder has reduced vertical-height from an interior sump and return-chamber @ 13.5" max waterlevel, otherwise the footprint is stock -6" length so 30x16.

[mcarroll]

42 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

XR30 so it has two pucks

Two so close they pretty much act as one bright light.  The Xr30 is more or less for deep tanks. 

 

Even the Razor, with wider puck spacing is borderline....the 160w unit with three pucks would be the ideal Razor for this tank.

 

Not lighting 6" of the end will help the 120 fit better.

 

I'm kinda sold on sunrise/sunset now (mostly for my fish)....but if you're alright with "going back" then a set of PAR bulbs is fine...but how will you mount/hang six of them though? (Or even three?)  Powering them is the easy part. 😉 

 

 

 

😉

 

[A.m.P]

Lol, pendants on some electrical conduit was the gameplan, need to find suitable shrouds though. Abi blues are bright as heck and bleed a crazy amount of light from the back and fins.

[jservedio]

8 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Two so close they pretty much act as one bright light.  The Xr30 is more or less for deep tanks. 

I'd agree with this for an XR30 right out of the box with the 80 degree optics, but the wide angle optics changes the equation, especially with a tank that's only 30" wide. It's ideal for shallow square footprint tanks, even very wide ones. It would very easily light the tank (so would the maxspect).

 

@Amphrites, if you have the PAR38s already, that's awesome - literally all of your choices will work great, but if you are concerned about the cost of T5s, why reinvent the wheel when you have two high-end fixtures already, both more than capable of frying even acros on the sandbed of an 18" deep tank.

[A.m.P]

37 minutes ago, jservedio said:

I'd agree with this for an XR30 right out of the box with the 80 degree optics, but the wide angle optics changes the equation, especially with a tank that's only 30" wide. It's ideal for shallow square footprint tanks, even very wide ones. It would very easily light the tank (so would the maxspect).

 

@Amphrites, if you have the PAR38s already, that's awesome - literally all of your choices will work great, but if you are concerned about the cost of T5s, why reinvent the wheel when you have two high-end fixtures already, both more than capable of frying even acros on the sandbed of an 18" deep tank.

Mostly just to play around, sell one thing and try another, because I look to find things for cheap I can usually sell at cost or for a profit after getting them fixed up lol.
I may just stick with the maxspect since it will be 4" or so higher off the water now, the blending just isn't stellar and it seems to produce allot of hotspots and shadows @ its' current height.

Going for a string of par bulbs seemed like the easiest way to get 5+ year lifespan T5-like coverage and I could sell what I have to fund the project while still having a fair-bit left over.

[mcarroll]

At the standard mounting height, blending should be pretty good on the Razor...even with the standard lenses I have on my 160.

 

Comparing fixtures to one another might give you a different sensation....A:B comparisons are like that.  (It's why A:B comparisons are important when   Your tank is not normally an A:B comparison though, it's monolithic – no comparison.  Just "A".  😉

 

On 7/14/2020 at 5:33 PM, Amphrites said:

Yeah, the one thing which concerns me is just how much better a light the gen2 or pro are considered when compared to the gen1.
Thanks for sharing the profile!

The core of any reef light is its complement of white and blue LED's...mostly the blue...you can pretty much forget the rest as "details".   How do they compare on that basis?

 

7 hours ago, Amphrites said:

Lol, pendants on some electrical conduit was the gameplan, need to find suitable shrouds though. Abi blues are bright as heck and bleed a crazy amount of light from the back and fins.

I'd add up those costs before you even consider that project....an integrated fixture often makes more sense just based on the mounting costs for E26 socket bulbs.  

 

These mounts (suggested on the ABI listing) are $20 a pop for example....making each PAR38 more like $60.  Times three bulbs, you're up to $180 for a three bulb install that is only 75 watts, doesn't have timers or power yet (more $) and will never have sunrise/sunset dimming as the other fixtures do.

 

These also have REALLY narrow/strong lenses....60º for the big, 30º for the smaller unit....that will require something like a 15" installation height (30" for the smaller lights with 30º lenses...which power-wise make more sense) to light the front-to-back dimension on the tank.  

 

This cost is one of the main reasons that @TinyGiant based his now-classic DIY on the smaller-but similar GU10 bulbs.  GU10 sockets cost almost nothing...no more than $0.50/ea.  Bulbs cost very little as well...even less today that when he did his thread.  I built three different fixtures off that basic design.  (You might wanna consider that route among your options.)

 

 

15 hours ago, Amphrites said:

30x16

Just for the record, geometrically speaking, even with the missing 6" for the "sump" that's very, very rectangular.  Not square or even squarish. 😉

 

With about 90º lenses (80º is mostly marketing...indistinguishable from 90º even on an A:B compare) the fixture should require about (16÷2) 8" of mounting height to correctly fill the tank with light on the short dimension with a 16" cone of light, leaving you with ((30-16)÷2) 7" of relative-dark on the ends.  

 

Raise that fixture up to (30÷2) 15" to catch those ends better and you're blowing something like ((16*30)/(π*15^2)) 30% of your reef light out into the room over the front and back of the tank.  Even if you don't care about the waste aspect (which is significant) it's not healthy for your eyeballs.

 

The Razor's pucks are more generously spaced (right?), so the coverage will be exactly that much better in the tank. 

 

That's by the math though...words, words, words....see what you think after experimenting.  😼