Newbie lighting? troubles

[gymby11]

I have just set up my second nano tank (first tank was 2 months old, moved to a bigger tank with internal weir). The tank holds 36lt, has about 1kg of live rock. The tank is 50cm x 30cm x 26cm.

I am running a chiller, gfo reactor with carbon in the top and some filter pad in the weir. I do 10% water changes twice weekly with NSW.

Parameters are:

Nitrate: between 5 and 10ppm

Phosphate:  0.2ppm

Temp: 23-24 degrees C.

 

Inhabitants:

Fish and inverts

Two black clowns

A turbo snail

 

Corals:

Green polyp leather

2 green ricordea

2 blue ricordea

5 morphs (red, purple and green)

1 green rhodactis

5 zoas

 

I feed the corals Reef Revolutions Polyp Feast and the fish Vitalis marine pellets 

 

I have two questions.

Firstly, I have just upgraded from an eBay LED special to a Dymax Space-X Reef LED light.

First off, the difference in lighting is huge. I am running the Dymax at 40% daylight and 55% blue. I still feel this is significantly stronger that what the eBay LED light was.

The corals seem to be handling the change well and I am planning on increasing the light to 60% daylight and 75% blue.

Is this an appropriate amount of light to go up to over the course of a month?

 

Secondly, everything looks health and happy, however the leather is only extending its polyps half way. Is this because it has been shocked by the light? It has double its size just not extending its polyps fully. I also have a Xenia that is melting away to nothing. It lost a head the other day and the last remaining head is shrivelled up and does not extend.

From my research my parameters are all somewhat normal (nitrates are higher than I would like), however my green ricordea has just split and 1 of the the blue ricordea has developed a new mouth and I have an extra 2  zoas. This has happened over the course of a month.

[DreC80]

The only true way to tell is with a par meter...checking old vs new...or even a lux meter app on your phone to match up the overall intensities.  The eye is not good at judging intensity/par.

 

In my opinion your nitrates are perfectly fine.  I'm not familiar with those LEDs, but based on what you are describing I think your lights are too strong.  The corals may not show signs immediately, but in 2 to 3 weeks they'll start bleaching if it's too bright.  Your Xenia is clearly not happy...the leather also seems like it may not be completely happy.

 

Not enough light is almost always safer than too much.  I recommend turning them down to maybe 20% daylight and 40% blues.  Give the corals two weeks and then go up 5% every week or two.  You won't kill any of the corals you mentioned with too little light.

 

LEDs are tricky sometimes and you can really mess up your corals if not done slowly.  Highly recommend figuring out the intensities with a lux meter app if you still have the old light.

[gymby11]

I downloaded the lux meter like you suggested and tested both lights. 

 

EBay specials showed 8 000 - 9 000

Dymax Space-x Reef show 22 000 - 23 000

 

I have turned it down to 20% day and 40% blue like you suggested and it reads at 13 000 - 14 000. Is that still too bright? 

 

I understand now why my clowns hid for the first day or so. 

 

Thank you for your help. 

[Clown79]

Leathers and xenia love light. But if they are reacting in the manner you describe, it sounds like lighting wasn't acclimated slowly enough. 

 

Some corals will react quickly like leathers and xenia to too intense lighting immediately whereas other corals you may not see the negative effects for weeks.

[gymby11]

I didn't realise the new light were more than double the strength. 

 

I have lowered it now. I will see of the colour up/begin to extend more. The leather was not extended when I finished work but the light had only been on for an hour. 

 

Should I aim to raise them to 60% day and 80% blue over then next few months or will that be too bright? 

 

What is the ideal lux for softies and lps? I eventually want an acan and zoa garden. 

[DreC80]

5 hours ago, gymby11 said:

I didn't realise the new light were more than double the strength. 

 

I have lowered it now. I will see of the colour up/begin to extend more. The leather was not extended when I finished work but the light had only been on for an hour. 

 

Should I aim to raise them to 60% day and 80% blue over then next few months or will that be too bright? 

 

What is the ideal lux for softies and lps? I eventually want an acan and zoa garden

I think there are some lux to par calculators online.  May be worth a shot for the conversion.  That will give you a general idea of where you are par wise.

 

Even if you can't figure out the par, you can just go by the lux.  I would aim for an overall 5% increase every 2 weeks just to be safe. 

 

The corals you mentioned will do fine in 100 to 150 par range.  They can be acclimated to even brighter lighting.  The key is just to take it slow.

 

I would observe the xenia and leather to see how they react to you turning down the intensity.  If they go back to normal, leave it this way for a couple of weeks.  If not, turn it down even more.

[gymby11]

Thank you for your advice. The help is appreciated. The ricordea is nowhere near as colourful as it was before the move. I had put it down to stress because it had been in a new tank but now agree with you all and think it is due to high light.  I had just fed in the second picture - is this why the mouth is so open?

 

I used a rough conversion as people have said that LED lux to par conversion is not super accurate. My old lights had a PAR of roughly 120 PAR and what I have my new ones set at now is roughly 200 PAR. Is this difference still too great?

 

 

[DreC80]

I would try to tune your par down to about 150....then slowly work it up.

 

I'm not to sure on the ricordia and the mouth open.  Could have been from feeding.

[gymby11]

Done and done. 

 

Leather coral has gone all shiny again..... it will hopefully malt and then fully extend its polyps again. I will feed the mushrooms again tonight and monitor their progress. The red and purple mushrooms were much bigger yesterday after I dropped the light levels. Hoping this is a sign of recovery. The Xenia has dropped its second head but it seems to have anchored itself in the substrate. I will leave it in and monitor.   

 

Thank you again for the advice. I would hate to be unsuccessful with mushroom corals as I want to later venture in LPS coral. These are the 'if i can keep these then' corals. 

[DreC80]

👍led lighting is great for less power consumption, less heat, spectrum changes, etc...but you can really melt/kill corals with too much intensity too fast.  Just take it slow and you'll be fine.  Glad the lux meter helped in at least giving you something to measure/compare.  Good luck with future corals.

[gymby11]

20 hours ago, DreC80 said:

👍led lighting is great for less power consumption, less heat, spectrum changes, etc...but you can really melt/kill corals with too much intensity too fast.  Just take it slow and you'll be fine.  Glad the lux meter helped in at least giving you something to measure/compare.  Good luck with future corals.

Thanks mate. 

 

I will post an update tonight but all corals looked great after a feed and the leather had most of it's polyps extended. 

[gymby11]

Corals are going great and have coloured up a lot. I have made my first adjustment yesterday. 

 

The leather however seems to be malting every 2 or 3 days. I am worried that it is over exerting itself and will die. Is this because the flow is too low?

[Clown79]

17 minutes ago, gymby11 said:

Corals are going great and have coloured up a lot. I have made my first adjustment yesterday. 

 

The leather however seems to be malting every 2 or 3 days. I am worried that it is over exerting itself and will die. Is this because the flow is too low?

It can be from being too low. Leathers need flow to shed detritus and their mucous buildup.

[gymby11]

On 6/8/2020 at 3:22 PM, Clown79 said:

It can be from being too low. Leathers need flow to shed detritus and their mucous buildup.

Moved my wave maker closer. The polyps were opening up straight away. May need a second wave maker. 

[mcarroll]

On 5/25/2020 at 10:09 PM, gymby11 said:

I am running a chiller

Shouldn't be necessary....but where (geographically speaking) are you?

 

On 5/25/2020 at 10:09 PM, gymby11 said:

gfo reactor with carbon in the top and some filter pad in the weir

Shouldn't be necessary.

 

On 5/25/2020 at 10:09 PM, gymby11 said:

Nitrate: between 5 and 10ppm

Phosphate:  0.2ppm

Fine.

 

On 5/25/2020 at 10:09 PM, gymby11 said:

Temp: 23-24 degrees C.

Are you running a cold water tank?  23C/73F is too cold for a reef.

 

On 5/25/2020 at 10:09 PM, gymby11 said:

First off, the difference in lighting is huge.

How many watts are they each rated for?

 

Ideally you should have a light meter to use for this.  US$7-$20 on eBay will get a decent lux meter like I have.

 

On 5/25/2020 at 10:09 PM, gymby11 said:

Is this an appropriate amount of light to go up to over the course of a month?

Impossible to say without more info....at least the comparative wattage of each light.  I wouldn't suggest going up more than 2500 lux or so per increase.  Space each increase out by at least a week or so.

 

On 5/25/2020 at 10:09 PM, gymby11 said:

From my research my parameters are all somewhat normal (nitrates are higher than I would like)

Your parameters are fine.  Where are you doing your research?

 

 

[gymby11]

44 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Shouldn't be necessary....but where (geographically speaking) are you?

 

Shouldn't be necessary.

 

Fine.

 

Are you running a cold water tank?  23C/73F is too cold for a reef.

 

How many watts are they each rated for?

 

Ideally you should have a light meter to use for this.  US$7-$20 on eBay will get a decent lux meter like I have.

 

Impossible to say without more info....at least the comparative wattage of each light.  I wouldn't suggest going up more than 2500 lux or so per increase.  Space each increase out by at least a week or so.

 

Your parameters are fine.  Where are you doing your research?

 

 

I'm in Australia. Summers get very warm here. I have plumbed it in, may as well keep it on all year around. I will up the temp by 2 degrees. It sits primarily on 24C but does drop to 23 and rise to 25 occasionally.

 

Impossible to say without more info....at least the comparative wattage of each light.  I wouldn't suggest going up more than 2500 lux or so per increase.  Space each increase out by at least a week or so.

 

Wattage of eBay lights were 6w, new one is 48 w at full power. I went up 5% after 2 weeks. not sure on the lux increase but I can only increase them by 5% intervals. 

 

Your parameters are fine.  Where are you doing your research?

On an Australian Reefkeeping Facebook page. Have looked elsewhere. Most I have seen say 0 for nitrates and phosphates. I am running a reactor because I am using old live rock and the phosphate levels were very high. 

 

Thanks for the help tho. As always, it's appreciated and nice to know I am somewhat on the right track. I will change the temp to make it warmer. I will slowly increase over the week. 

[mcarroll]

Just now, gymby11 said:

I'm in Australia. Summers get very warm here. I have plumbed it in, may as well keep it on all year around. I will up the temp by 2 degrees. It sits primarily on 24C but does drop to 23 and rise to 25 occasionally.

Are you keeping local (cooler water) critters, or are you keeping the "typical" tropical animals you see posted on here?

 

If you're keeping tropical stuff (like you see here mostly), then you'll want a temperature somewhere in the 80'sF/high-20'sC.

 

Sorry I missed this post earlier:

On 5/26/2020 at 2:08 AM, gymby11 said:

I downloaded the lux meter like you suggested and tested both lights. 

 

EBay specials showed 8 000 - 9 000

Dymax Space-x Reef show 22 000 - 23 000

 

I have turned it down to 20% day and 40% blue like you suggested and it reads at 13 000 - 14 000. Is that still too bright? 

8K-9K was just above the "compensation point" for most corals for photosynthesis....where they are making more energy than they are using up in the process.  👍

 

13K-14K is still considered "low light" but seems to make a lot of corals pretty happy, even SPS.  

 

23K is still on the high side of low light.  The problem was the differential with the old levels....23K vs 8K is a factor of 400%.

 

Ideally the new lights would have been turned on at the same 8K intensity level and then raised by 2.5K lux per week or so until you get it up to 23K...or wherever you want it.

 

Keep in mind that phosphates are almost literally the fuel that gets "burned" during photosynthesis...without adequate availability, the corals get burned by the process, which then leads to bleaching and possibly to mortality.

 

5 minutes ago, gymby11 said:

On an Australian Reefkeeping Facebook page. Have looked elsewhere. Most I have seen say 0 for nitrates and phosphates.

Just checking....good to know where the bad info lives.

 

Zero nutrient levels are great as long as you don't have any interest in a healthy reef tank.  😉

 

Take in mind that nitrates and phosphates are two of the most important essential nutrients which no lifeform can do without.

 

Then take in mind that a new reef tank is trying to grow billions of new critters to make a stable reef ecosystem.

 

How will that growth happen without an ample supply of dissolved essential nutrients?

 

Unfortunately the answer is worse than "It won't happen."  

 

What you get (typically) is an algae that thrives under "zero nutrient" conditions....often that algae is a dinoflagellate.  

 

Rather than thriving off of dissolved nutients and sunshine, to put it in a nutshell, they thrive off of the death and destruction of the ecosystem.

 

Dino blooms are very common in the hobby these days, so be careful if you stay on course for a "low nutrient tank".  I don't recommend it at all, for what it's worth.

 

On 5/26/2020 at 7:56 AM, DreC80 said:

I think there are some lux to par calculators online.

The conversion factor is linked to the spectrum of the light being analyzed....so every light (and every lighting program) essentially has its own conversion factor.

 

I use the basic conversion factor for sunlight instead.  It's not 100% accurate when applied to reef lights, but it's close enough and it's easy to remember and easy to do the math with.

 

2,000 PAR = 100,000 lux = peak sunlight at sea level in the tropics.  That gives you a conversion factor of (100,000/2,000=) 50 lux/PAR.  

 

So 150 PAR is about (150*50=) 7,500 lux, just for example.   30,000 lux (the minimum for clams) is about (30,000÷50=) 600 PAR.

 

In reality, lights that are more blue (like reef lights) tend to have higher conversion factors...around 60 or 70.  70 would bring that calculation above from 7,500 up to 10,500 lux....not a meaningful difference for our purposes, so I don't worry about a 100% accurate conversion factor.

 

But if you can get your hands on a PAR meter and lux meter at the same time, then you can make a 100% accurate (to the level of your PAR meter, anyway) conversion factor for your lights.  From then on you only need a lux meter to take measurements of that light setup, and those measurements can be accurately converted to PAR whenever you need.  (In reality, lux measurements are fine on their own...measuring in PAR is kinda overkill for us.  The only time I convert is when I need to make a comparison with someone who's measuring in PAR.)

[mcarroll]

On 6/9/2020 at 7:04 PM, gymby11 said:

Moved my wave maker closer. The polyps were opening up straight away. May need a second wave maker. 

Can you post a tank pic that shows where your flow is in relation to your corals now?

[gymby11]

Is your recommendation to remove the gfo? I do have what I think are dino. I am not stressed about a 0 tank. I really just want a healthy one. 

 

Here are some pictures of the tank.

[mcarroll]

11 minutes ago, gymby11 said:

Is your recommendation to remove the gfo? I do have what I think are dino. I am not stressed about a 0 tank. I really just want a healthy one.

Your levels for no3 and po4 right now are NOT zero (as shown below), right?

 

On 5/25/2020 at 10:09 PM, gymby11 said:

Parameters are:

Nitrate: between 5 and 10ppm

Phosphate:  0.2ppm

As long as that still stands, then I think the lighting blast was the main (maybe only) problem.

 

As for the suspected dino's.....your tank looks great in the pics....and dino's don't generally bloom in tank that has decent nutrient levels.

 

Do you have a microscope (even a toy one) that you can use to look at a sample from your tank?  That's the best way to ID dino's.  Otherwise, have you done the "shake test" to confirm them?   (Sample in a vial of tank water, shake vigorously to homogenize, then leave for a while under light....like your tank lights or a sunny window sill.  Only dino's will regroup into a mass since they can swim.  Other algae that can be mistaken for dino's can't do that.)

16 minutes ago, gymby11 said:

This dog is doing an impression of your zonthid frags:

 

What gives with those little colars on your frags?  😄

[gymby11]

11 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

This dog is doing an impression of your zonthid frags:

 

What gives with those little colars on your frags?  😄

🤣🤣🤣 the seller shipped them in them and I haven't got around to glueing the plugs. Threw them in the tank after work a week ago and haven't gotten to them. 

 

As for parameters, they are all stable at what I posted. 

 

Thanks for the advice and saying the tank looks OK. Will continue to raise lights gradually to the 40k lux range. 

[mcarroll]

7 minutes ago, gymby11 said:

he seller shipped them in them and I haven't got around to glueing the plugs.

Interesting!  First time I've seen that....wonder what the intention is?

 

40k lux is quite a lot – sufficient for clams and shallow water corals – so feel free to stop anywhere along the journey to 40k if it seems like you (or the corals) like it.

[gymby11]

36 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Interesting!  First time I've seen that....wonder what the intention is?

 

40k lux is quite a lot – sufficient for clams and shallow water corals – so feel free to stop anywhere along the journey to 40k if it seems like you (or the corals) like it.

Will do. 

 

They are there so they can ship all of the corals in the same bag. Less wastage that way apparently. 

 

The Urban Reefer if you want to check them out. Australian website. 

[mcarroll]

Ah hah!  For stacking!  I get it.

[gymby11]

Tank update. 

 

Leather is still being a pain. It is beginning to extend polyps but they are not opening like were in the store. I am beginning to think that flow may be the issue? It also has these odd patches that look a little bit like sunburn (not shedding, it has done this 2 or 3 times already and these patches are not glossy - more like sandpaper), i assumed it was too close to the light, I changed that scape around to drop it away from the light. Will see if this helps. 

 

On the zoa front, I have had great growth. My rasta has thrown out 3 new polys, fire and ice has doubled to 6 and all other no named zoas have sprouted 3 or more polyps. The only two yet to grow new polyps are my sakuras and goblins on fire. My rics and morphs have gotten nice and big as well as my melted xenia has regrow from a single polyp/hand into a head with 20+ polyps/hand.