What are my options with a cycled tank if I'm not ready with Livestock

[mcarroll]

 

15 hours ago, Doc_ said:

24L x 13D x 18H (Display Area)

About 24 actual gallons.

 

Then I'll stick with my recommendation and the Tunze's would be a better fit AND better value...really a pair of their smallest pumps (at about $40/ea) would be PLENTY.

 

 

14 hours ago, Doc_ said:

I was basing my decision on the Nero or MP10 off of what I have seen people with similar tanks running and seem to be happy with .

 

They are definitely more suited to cube-ish tanks where nothing that needs flow can be very far away from the pump.  I suspect this is even more true of the Nero than the mp10, which itself is strong only to about 12" from the pump.

 

In a long, narrow space like that you'd want the mp's across the back....and it would probably take two to do a great job.  $$$ 

 

On the sides could work, but the narrow space might make the mp's dig into the sand too much.  Again, I suspect the nero's would be even more like this.  (Can either of them actually be mounted on the back wall?  I know the mp's are NOT waterproof....whereas Tunze's are all 100% waterproof.  I don't know about the Nero.)

 

If you're favoring the idea of "indirect flow", then at least IMO the 6040 is the obvious choice. 

Strong, but indirect flow...and controllable...great warranty, etc...and only $140. 

 

If you like the idea of being more in control of the flow than the mp10, or nero allow (even more than the 6020 or 6040 allow), then consider the Tunze 6045 or 6055.  Both have totally directable flow so the pumps can be placed almost anywhere according to your needs yet still be aimed to get the job done.

 

The 6045 is non-controllable but does have an adjustable flow rate.  The 6055 is fully controllable. 

 

The mp10 and nero are static-mount pumps where you have no ability to aim the flow, and which greatly restricts placement options. 

 

Tunze's 6020 and 6040 both have a deflector giving you some ability to direct flow, plus they can be rotated on the glass to point in any direction. 

 

That design is more limited than Tunze's 360 degree mount (although it's more compact too), but it still gives you WAY more control than the Nero or mp10's design.

 

15 hours ago, Doc_ said:

There is currently no green algae but there was a little bit not long after the cleanup crew went in which seems to be gone now.

If the tank has already grown at least some green algae then that's a good thing, as I think I mentioned.

 

In that case, I'd be adding a coral or two any time you feel like it.  Unless you have a specific worry about corals, I'd even add corals before fish to further mature and stabilize the system before the fish come.

 

After a few weeks, if all is OK with the tank and the coral, and you've made any required adjustments for the coral, then either add a little more coral or a fish (one). 

 

After a few more weeks, if all is OK and you've made any required adjustments for the new corals or fish, then add a little more coral or another fish. 

 

After a few more weeks....hopefully you get the drift....keep things well-spaced so you can see and react to any changes that are caused in the tank, like algae growth, or alkalinity changes, etc.

 

Your nutrient issues should disappear with the addition of fish and the associated feeding. 

 

Just don't overdo the rate of new additions (notice all the waiting included in the process above!) or the filtration, as already mentioned.  Most folks over-do both.  (Tho not everyone!)

 

FYI for better or worse this is a very fad-driven hobby, not a very consensus-driven one -- especially in the last 5-10 years, but I think almost always to some degree.   Hence the heads up I gave earlier.

 

More and more good science gets injected into the hobby every day by lots of folks....but it's a slow process because old, bad information lives forever on the internet, and good news always travels slowly.

 

I recommend reading books because they have been relatively consistent over the last 160 years of the hobby's history, if they have been necessarily incomplete and not 100% accurate.  (Even the massive three- and four-volume book sets that came out in the 1990's could not say everything that can or should be said about reefing.) 

 

The internet makes a great book accessory, but a problematic primary resource.

 

For more reading, check out the journal articles I've got filed on my blog under Coral, and Nutrients.

 

Also check out my book thread for reading recommendations:

Chime in with your reef-oriented reading list!

[Doc_]

The only factor that has kept me from getting any corals yet has been that I don't believe that my return pump is providing enough flow in my tank to really keep them happy and I've been going back and forth on what to put in to generate flow.  I tend to take my time with most things, maybe far too much  🙈

 

I was looking at the Tunze 6020 initially because I do like the idea of an indirect or wider flow pattern which gives me the water movement I'm wanting without blasting a focused stream in such a small area the idea being to put one on opposing ends of the tank and maybe using a wave controller to have them run in an on / off cycle. I think at least in this tank I'm going to end up with primarily LPS and Soft Corals I might step into some lower demand SPS later so my needs aren't too crazy but knowing what I'm like I'm just as likely to go a much larger tank inside of two years so to disregard plans for the future would be wasteful.

 

So then I started to look at DC options which gave me control and would let me go a little overboard now in the flow department and simply run the pumps at what I needed for now whilst still likely remaining suitable for use later. 

 

I looked at the 6040's but here they are between 170 and 270 USD anyway which is in the Vortec/AI Price range so I thought ... why not go with something I found more aesthetically pleasing and seemed to be loved by the people who use them. At first I liked the idea of the MP10's then I considered that when I upgrade the glass was likely to be thicker than they would support and they would be a fully sunk investment bound that tank or a tank of similar glass thickness whereas the Neros I could always simply just upgrade the magnet IF I need to. I also liked the fact that the Neros do provide the ability for some adjustment of the flow and gave a wider flow so it was unlikely to cause issues to my coral given the limited space. 

 

My plan for the Nero was to start with one and move to two if I found the need which was the plan for any of the DC pumps I was looking at as I know I would be over-specking and running them lower. If I was to go for the Tunze 6040 would you still suggest the two for the varied flow?

 

As for stocking, yes my plan is to really introduce no more than one fish at a time, allowing me to monitor before adding any additional live stock. The only ones I plan to do fairly close to each other are the clown pair I want to add and at this point I am still deciding if I actually get a known pair or simply trying my luck later adding a second later.

 

If I get a pair one option was to do it as my first fish and add them into the tank together so they are at least done before there is other bioload or alternatively getting them together but holding one in a spare tank for a few weeks before introducing it.

[mcarroll]

30 minutes ago, Doc_ said:

I was looking at the Tunze 6020 initially because I do like the idea of an indirect or wider flow pattern which gives me the water movement I'm wanting without blasting a focused stream in such a small area

Good choice....but something to keep in mind is that only pumps like the old MaxiJets put out flow that "blast a focused stream".

 

This is all we had when the hobby first started....

 

Then Tunze came out with their model 6000 propeller pump and changed everything.  👍

 

30 minutes ago, Doc_ said:

I'm just as likely to go a much larger tank inside of two years so to disregard plans for the future would be wasteful.

 

So then I started to look at DC options which gave me control and would let me go a little overboard now in the flow department and simply run the pumps at what I needed for now whilst still likely remaining suitable for use later. 

I disagree.....most equipment doesn't translate well from small to large tanks.  Disign for this tank and make this tank work well.  Worry about the next tank when it gets here....which may be soon or later than you think.  I was sure I'd upgrade to a 120 Gallon within a few years.....it only took me ten years to actually upgrade to a 125 Gallon.  Nothing from a 30 Long translates to a 125 Gallon.  (Yes you can use a million little pumps like I did at first so I could re-use what I had for a while, but it's silly to have 8 flow pumps in one tank when half or less that quantity should do the trick.)

 

30 minutes ago, Doc_ said:

I looked at the 6040's but here they are between 170 and 270 USD anyway which is in the Vortec/AI Price range so I thought

Um...no.   $140 each. (Unless here isn't where my here is......can you be more specific?)

 

Quote

Turbelle^® nanostream^® 6040

For aquariums from 20 to 500 liters (5.3 to 132 USgal.). Flow rate: approx. 200 to 4,500 l/h (53 to... mehr

6040.000

144.99 USD

 

 

And for "visual appeal" the 6020 and 6040 (in fact all of Tunze's pumps) can easily be hidden out of sight behind rockwork....unlike the static mount pumps you're considering that have basically one acceptable mounting spot in a tank.  For their other models (eg. 6015,6025,6045,etc), they even offer optional cover rocks the pump can snap into to further facilitate hiding them:

Quote

Nanostream^® Rock

 

30 minutes ago, Doc_ said:

If I was to go for the Tunze 6040 would you still suggest the two for the varied flow?

This has more to do with the dynamics of flow than it has to do with any particular pump.

 

Every flow will generate a set of dead zones.

Basically dead zones are the "flow shadows" of all the tank's obstructions -- rocks, corals, every hard surface. 

 

Anything in one of these flow shadows, whether it's a coral or a piece of detritus, will have the same sub-standard flow all the time.  For a coral that means it's hard to breathe and access to nutrients and minerals is slow.  For detritus, this means you sink into the sand or rocks instead of floating around to become food for a coral or a filter.

 

By simply running two pumps from more or less opposite sides of the tank and alternating them, you basically erase those dead zones every time the flow switches.

 

This strategy works so well that I'd definitely recommend considering non-controllable pumps, and that you put the savings toward other things or even toward the next tank.

 

The 6040 is a bargain at $140....but still expensive vs a pair of 6020's or 6025's...which totals to around $100 or less.  You'll spend three or four times that much for little or no additional performance by going another route.

 

A pair of 6045's is the most overkill I would personally consider for such a small tank....up to 1100 GPH (like the controllable 6040) but can be throttled to much lower flows as needed.  (The smaller models are not flow-adjustable.)  A pair of 6045's is only about $160.

 

I think the 6045 is one of the best flow pumps out there, BTW, and has been for years.....a heck of a value, way better mounting system than anything else.  A total workhorse. 

 

I have some 6045's that are as old as my 11 year old system, they still work and have only had minor maintenance or repairs at most.  $10-$15/each for a couple of impellers after about 8 years, mostly.  I replaced a couple of pump housings when I decided to experimentally modify a couple for a test....but that's on me, and at $15/ea they were very inexpensive to replace!  😉

 

30 minutes ago, Doc_ said:

clown pair I want

IMO, the best strategy after buying "pre paired" clowns is to buy your two VERY small....around an inch IMO.  No biggie to add two fish this small at once, IMO.  Just make sure feedings are proportionately small too.

 

If you go for pre-paired, I'd ask how long they've actually been paired before assuming too many good things.

[Doc_]

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Um...no.   $140 each. (Unless here isn't where my here is......can you be more specific?)

 

Here in my case is Australia and one step further but Perth Australia which is quite literally like having all the nice stuff that does make it to the country located in New Jersey and being located in LA with very very few large cities between and some very money hungry logistic companies who love to exploit that fact lol 😁

 

If I order online I can get the 6040's for around 170 USD + various shipping rates . If I buy it locally at most places I end up paying what we call the Perth tax and it was closer to 250-270 USD 

 

Tanks are even worse because shipping them across the country is a nightmare 

 

I have also looked at importing to Australia from the US myself but to get to me a wavemaker like the Nero or Tunze are 6040 are 45 USD added ontop of the base cost each plus I have a 10% tax I have to pay for duty and then come the fun problems like International plugs , transformers local warranty etc etc. 

 

Can't say I'm completely convinced on the Tunze choice yet but they are certainly something to consider if I can likely get away with two of the 6020's without it being too much flow to just alternate them as that will be less than half the cost of a single Vortech or Nero I just very much liked the idea of two Nero's translating to a larger tank later, and the controlability was appealing as someone who likes to tinker and play and work out what works best for me. 

 

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

IMO, the best strategy after buying "pre paired" clowns is to buy your two VERY small....around an inch IMO.  No biggie to add two fish this small at once, IMO.  Just make sure feedings are proportionately small too.

 

If you go for pre-paired, I'd ask how long they've actually been paired before assuming too many good things.

Yeah the plan is to look for a pre-paired set that aren't big but have also been paired together long enough to be more than two fish they threw in a tank together that appear to not be fighting after all of a day together 😂 we will see though , my location doesn't make for the most ideal circumstances when it comes to fish shopping which is why this thread got started to begin with ! 

 

I'm currently talking to a few different breeders from the other side of Australia who seem to have great reputations and seem to care as much about where the fish they are selling are going as they do about actually selling their live stock which I have always taken as a fairly good sign with other types of animals. 

[mcarroll]

11 hours ago, Doc_ said:

Here in my case is Australia and one step further but Perth Australia which is quite literally like having all the nice stuff that does make it to the country located in New Jersey and being located in LA with very very few large cities between and some very money hungry logistic companies who love to exploit that fact lol 😁

That's rough!!   Doesn't it work out the same for all the makers though?  Sounds like you were saying only the Tunze's were more $$?

 

Tunze Australia lists the 6040 at 127 Euros and the 6020 at 39 Euros...which of course are minimums, not maximums.  But at least other places it's usually the actual sale price too.

 

How much is either one locally??

 

11 hours ago, Doc_ said:

If I buy it locally at most places I end up paying what we call the Perth tax and it was closer to 250-270 USD 

That's like 222 Euros!!!

 

You should be able to get a gigantic Tunze 6105 (capable of delivering a serious KO to an mp40) for only another 20 Euros!!!

 

Quote

Turbelle^® stream 6105

For aquariums from 200 to 2,000 liters (53 to 528 USgal.). Flow rate: 3,000 up to approx. 13,000 l/... mehr

6105.000

249.00 EUR

 

 

[Doc_]

The pricing "Issues" here are not a tunze issue it's across the board in many cases and really all boils down to who imports the goods and who's selling it 

 

The reality of Australia is that our whole countries population is about 27m people most of which live on the other side of the country from me so every major company handles logistics in different ways 

 

Taking my local LFS as an example , in AUD I can pay 375 for a 6040 or I can pay 400 for a Nero or 420 for an MP10 so if I do decide on that Tunze Model I'll buy it from an online vendor on the other side of the country where it's much cheaper.  But even for 100 dollars difference the visual aspect in the tank means a lot to me provided I don't sacrifice on quality just to go down the prettier path. 

 

Function is certainly the primary for me but if paying an extra 100 dollars gets me less of an eye sore then It's a worthwhile cost so long as the job gets done 🙂