Clown in the surface

[Charith1986]

Hi, I have a 8 gallon nano marine tank. when i switch on the led light most of the time clown swims on the surface.

but when the light is switched off it is normal, 

[j.falk]

Then leave the light off.  Problem solved. 😉

[seabass]

Turning the light on suddenly can make them act weird for a few minutes.  Or are you saying that the fish is always at the surface when the light is on?  Clownfish can be a little strange in general.  I had one (in a smaller nano) that would hang out like it was "hosting" a pump.  Often a mate will change its behavior.

[j.falk]

8 minutes ago, seabass said:

Often a mate will change its behavior.

Don't encourage them to stick a third fish in an 8 gallon fish bowl.   

[seabass]

11 minutes ago, j.falk said:

Don't encourage them to stick a third fish in an 8 gallon fish bowl.   

I didn't really notice that it was an 8 gallon tank.  Yeah, that's small (probably too small) for a pair of clownfish.  Good call.  Still, in a larger tank, a mate will change their behavior.

 

A larger tank itself could also change its behavior.  I've witnessed these strange hosting behaviors more in smaller tanks than in larger tanks.

 

You might also check your parameters (like ammonia) to make sure the fish is doing well.  Also, make sure you have proper flow/aeration to oxygenate the water.

[Clown79]

18 minutes ago, seabass said:

I didn't really notice that it was an 8 gallon tank.  Yeah, that's small (probably too small) for a pair of clownfish.  Good call.  Still, in a larger tank, a mate will change their behavior.

 

A larger tank itself could also change its behavior.  I've witnessed these strange hosting behaviors more in smaller tanks than in larger tanks.

 

You might also check your parameters (like ammonia) to make sure the fish is doing well.  Also, make sure you have proper flow/aeration to oxygenate the water.

Definitely.

 

My single clown in my 20g swims everywhere but likes to host the back top wall.

 

My pair in my lagoon, they host a Duncan and seldomly leave it.

[Charith1986]

Hi, You guys mean adding one more clown or a cardinal is not possible to the tank ? i have read its one 1 inch fish per 5 gallons of water parameter. But the shop guy offered me 4 one inch fish and it was me who took two fish first. how about adding a hermit crab to clean the bottom ?

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, Charith1986 said:

Hi, You guys mean adding one more clown or a cardinal is not possible to the tank ? i have read its one 1 inch fish per 5 gallons of water parameter. But the shop guy offered me 4 one inch fish and it was me who took two fish first. how about adding a hermit crab to clean the bottom ?

That's not really a rule in SW, some use it in freshwater systems. It's a very old method.

 

The bioload of that much in an 8g is really hard to maintain as well as the lack of room which creates issues with the fishes health and territorial issues.

 

Consider the size a clown gets. An 8g is not very large

[seabass]

10 hours ago, Charith1986 said:

how about adding a hermit crab to clean the bottom ?

Definitely.  Most people don't even consider snails and crabs as adding to the bio-load (even if they really do).

 

10 hours ago, Charith1986 said:

i have read its one 1 inch fish per 5 gallons of water parameter.

Like Clown79 stated, I believe that rule was more for filtration purposes.  It doesn't address compatibility, aggregation, swimming area, hiding spots, etc.  Saltwater fish have an ocean of water to swim, hide, claim territory, avoid aggressors, and the like.

 

However, if you think about it, Ocellaris clownfish are said to grow to 3" (my female is probably closer to 4").  But let's say 3".  3 * 5 = 15; so you are already way over (according to that rule).  Yes, figure how big they get versus their current size.  Most of us hate those rules anyway.

 

An 8 gallon tank will likely support up to three small nano sized fish.  Think small like gobies.  However, there are advantages to keeping your tank's bio-load light.  Two fish is a better number, if you ask me.

 

10 hours ago, Charith1986 said:

the shop guy offered me 4 one inch fish

I believe you.  It's not always in your best interest to listen to someone (who may or may not know better) who is trying to sell you something.  While a good shop can be a great asset and source of information, I feel that a lot of poor choices can be traced back to bad advice from a local fish store (LFS).

[Charith1986]

Hi yes, before making this tank i wanted to some how get a marine tank. and thats why i went for a smaller one (this is smaller than average), but i will not increase my load over three and one hermit crab. hope it will be alright ?

 

 

[seabass]

6 hours ago, seabass said:

Two fish is a better number, if you ask me.

 

BTW, besides the clownfish, what's the other fish that you have currently?

[Ratvan]

2 minutes ago, seabass said:

 

BTW, besides the clownfish, what's the other fish that you have currently?

Believe it is a Damsel of some kind

 

[seabass]

1 minute ago, Ratvan said:

Believe it is a Damsel of some kind

Hmm...  can't see that working out long term.

[FOB_Reefy]

Rules...rules..rules... if you follow them too strictly, it will be no fun.  Having 3-4 nano fish in an 8G tank, I wouldn't worry too much about bio-load.  Just change out a gallon or two of water weekly, should be fine.  If possible, runs a HOB refugium, that should helps greatly.  Just my 2c :).

[Tired]

Those "rules" exist because certain things do and don't work, not because someone is trying to restrict your fun. The welfare of the animals being kept is important, especially the ones that are capable of feeling pain. 

 

OP, you should take your clowns back to that pet store, and stop listening to their advice. You should also post a picture or description of your damselfish so we can identify it. Some small damsels should be fine alone in an 8gal, some will get too big and need too much swimming room. 

 

1 inch per gallon of water is a very outdated rule, and doesn't work very well to boot. Imagine someone putting an 8-inch angelfish in your 8 gallon tank! It's also a rule about filtration and bio-load, but with reef tanks we have to account for the fish often needing more territorial space. And I wouldn't put most freshwater fish in an 8-gallon, either, it's very small. That's a tank for bettas, micro rasboras, or maybe neons or another small tetra, and not really anything else.

[seabass]

When you look at some of our current pico contestants, it's sometimes hard to fault someone for keeping three fish in an 8 gallon tank.  Now some of these contestants are more experienced, and many of them will move their fish to a larger tank after the contest.  However, I believe that keeping a light bio-load makes things easier on us, as well as the livestock.

[Tired]

I'm honestly pretty skeptical of a lot of things I see in picos. Clownfish and cardinalfish in particular. I'm sure they're okay as tiny babies, but I'd much prefer to see some reassurance that they aren't going to live in that tank their whole life. There should really be a note of "this is not a permanent housing for this fish, I have an aquarium ready to move it into" somewhere prominent, so anyone who reads the thread won't think they can keep something in there long-term. 

[FOB_Reefy]

1 hour ago, Tired said:

Those "rules" exist because certain things do and don't work, not because someone is trying to restrict your fun. The welfare of the animals being kept is important, especially the ones that are capable of feeling pain. 

 

OP, you should take your clowns back to that pet store, and stop listening to their advice. You should also post a picture or description of your damselfish so we can identify it. Some small damsels should be fine alone in an 8gal, some will get too big and need too much swimming room. 

 

1 inch per gallon of water is a very outdated rule, and doesn't work very well to boot. Imagine someone putting an 8-inch angelfish in your 8 gallon tank! It's also a rule about filtration and bio-load, but with reef tanks we have to account for the fish often needing more territorial space. And I wouldn't put most freshwater fish in an 8-gallon, either, it's very small. That's a tank for bettas, micro rasboras, or maybe neons or another small tetra, and not really anything else.

 

Hmmm... how would I determine which animals can feel pain... isn't corals are animals also...but we slice and dice them...🙋‍♂️

[seabass]

27 minutes ago, Tired said:

There should really be a note of "this is not a permanent housing for this fish, I have an aquarium ready to move it into" somewhere prominent, so anyone who reads the thread won't think they can keep something in there long-term.

Many of them have made this disclaimer.  Although constantly reiterating it might be difficult and/or distracting.  I get what you're saying though.  Some people will see these fish in a pico and use that to justify ignoring minimum tank size recommendations.  People believe what they want to believe.

 

4 minutes ago, FOB_Reefy said:

Hmmm... how would I determine which animals can feel pain... isn't corals are animals also...but we slice and dice them.

One measure might be the presence of a brain?

[FOB_Reefy]

Just now, seabass said:

Many of them have made this disclaimer.  Although constantly reiterating it might be difficult and/or distracting.  I get what you're saying though.  Some people will see these fish in a pico and use that to justify ignoring minimum tank size recommendations.  People believe what they want to believe.

 

One measure might be the presence of a brain.

 

So... are we being prejudice base on what we can only hear and see...hmmm... I guess what so called "the brain" is limited...😀

[Tired]

Presence of a brain is a good indicator of ability to feel pain, yes. Some invertebrates with brains don't feel pain as far as anyone can tell. Fish feel pain, and crustaceans are suspected to feel pain. Corals lack brains, and also demonstrably lack any significant response to what should be painful stimulus. They retreat from harmful stimuli, but you can do something that would reasonably cause them massive pain (like cutting them into pieces) and they don't seem to be more bothered than if you were to poke them with a fingertip for awhile. If you cut a piece off a coral, it generally expands out again relatively quickly. If you cut a piece off a fish, it's going to show stress behaviors for far, far longer. One of those things is animal cruelty, and one of them may as well be taking cuttings of a plant. 

 

[FOB_Reefy]

👍

[Charith1986]

13 hours ago, seabass said:

 

BTW, besides the clownfish, what's the other fish that you have currently?

One small damsel and a clown fish only

[Charith1986]

Okay thanks, a hermit crab would be fine i guess ? to clean the tank bottom

[Tired]

Yes, a hermit crab should be fine. Get a blue-legged or a left-handed/zebra hermit, they're small, and be sure to provide a lot of empty shells for it.