Algae issue

[Ratvan]

Hi there, hoping I can get some help on an issue that I currently have. 

 

It seems that when i come to work in the mornings. Each morning when I get to work the sand bed is "covered" with a red stringy algae, this usually disappears during the day with the lights on only to appear again over night, I am not entirely sure what is causing this issue. This morning the algae was not too bad as I have yet to find a timer that I trust so have been leaving the tank with natural lighting only on the weekends. 

 

 

 

The algae itself is red and stringy and clumps together when I take a turkey baster to it, I did bring a cheap microscope into work today, this is what it looks like under that

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated

[mcarroll]

That looks like dino's....very strange trend for them to gather in the dark but then disperse in the daylight though.

 

What are your nitrate and phosphate levels like now?

 

Was the tank started with dead rock and then the nutrients stripped with any/all of carbon dosing, GFO and other filter media or additives? 

 

That's not the only way to get em, but it's a very "popular" way.  😉

 

I'll assume this is the case until we hear some test results.....test results may change the recommendation completely, so the rest of this is just "FYI" for now...

 

Stop removing nutrients.  Remove GFO from your system as well as any other nutrient removing strategy you're using, including stopping water changes.

 

Get some test kits for nitrate and phosphate.  Gonna need something with resolution to support dosing, so consider a Hanna meter.  Get some dosing materials too like Seachem Flourish Phosphate and Flourish Nitrate.  (Brightwell and others make similar products.)   Test and dose every day (at least) to maintain phosphate levels over 0.10 ppm and nitrate levels over 5 ppm.  This is to get "normal" algae to grow and to get the dino's to stop blooming.

 

Do you have any signs of normal algae growth in the tank?   Green hair, cyanobacteria or coraline algae in particular?

[Ratvan]

Yes I am very confused, however the tank is in an office which runs strip fluorescence lighting 24 hrs. I doubt that'd be a cause but it's been on my mind since I had the tank set up. 

 

Nitrate I am showing between 10-20PPM, I am unable to test for phosphate at the minute, I will nip to my LFS at lunch for the Phosphate test (and other bits) I only have this 2.5G Pico so do not yet own testing kits for Phos etc.

 

Tank was started with "live" rock (was seeded at LFS for a few months and in my tank since 01.04.2019), I never dose anything. I feed occasionally with Reef Roids but have stopped that in the last week or so with this algae showing up. 

 

I don't believe I am removing nutrients, apart from the Xenia and Small amount of decorative macro algae. I have not yet fragged or discarded anything from these yet?

 

What is GFO? My filter is basically Live Rock, HOB filter with Floss (changed daily)

 

I have small clumps of what looks like GHA on my back glass, behind my filter intake, on my HOB output etc. 

[mcarroll]

If the LFS is convenient and they use good equipement, just have them test phosphate for you maybe.  :)

[Ratvan]

 

Yeah very convenient, I also know they give results in numbers rather than "Fine" or "Not Safe"

 

When I say small patches of algae I mean they are clumps 1mm long at maximum, otherwise looks like a very clean tank. 

 

Will update in the next few hours, I want to pick up some Copepods today, can I still add these if it is Dino's? I was also considering adding some more Macro to the tank before this began

[mcarroll]

Sounds like things are well set up.....no extra filtration really, but you can stop with the filter floss too until we figure out your phosphate levels....just remove it and let the filter run empty.

 

Generally dino's will disperse under soft lighting as it doesn't bother them.  But intense lighting will cause them to group up and generate slime for protection from the light.  (It has the added benefit of being toxic and therefor stunning or killing off any microbes it touches or which eat it.....which makes food for the dino's, which alleviates their lack of phosphates, or general lack of dissolved nutrients.  Ordinarily, dino's live just like algae off of light and dissolved nutrients but never go through a "bloom" so we don't see them.  Starvation kicks them into this self-preservation mode that includes blooming.   It's possible your office's lighting is enough to keep them tweaked, especially if phosphates are zero.  We'll cross that bridge once phos test results are in hand.  :-)

[mcarroll]

Just now, Ratvan said:

Will update in the next few hours, I want to pick up some Copepods today, can I still add these if it is Dino's? I was also considering adding some more Macro to the tank before this began

No additions until we get a handle on this.  Especially no more competition for nutrients (ie macro).

 

Another aspect of dino's is the potential of toxins being generated.   Watch your pods and CUC for tell-tale signs of sluggishness or appearing to be stunned...or death.  If you have no pods visible and/or they and your CUC are all sluggish/stunned, then your dino's are generating toxins.  GET SOME ACTIVATED CARBON in this case.  You might get some to keep around just in case/regardless.  Activated carbon is very effective at removing dino toxin.  (Very similar to palytoxin....not to be trifled with.)

[Ratvan]

3 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

No additions until we get a handle on this.  Especially no more competition for nutrients (ie macro).

 

Another aspect of dino's is the potential of toxins being generated.   Watch your pods and CUC for tell-tale signs of sluggishness or appearing to be stunned...or death.  If you have no pods visible and/or they and your CUC are all sluggish/stunned, then your dino's are generating toxins.  GET SOME ACTIVATED CARBON in this case.  You might get some to keep around just in case/regardless.  Activated carbon is very effective at removing dino toxin.  (Very similar to palytoxin....not to be trifled with.)

Hmmmm have a load of SPS arriving Wednesday. Might have to set up the back up again for those then.

All my CuC look "normal" the Sexy Shrimp are pestering my Duncan and my Hermit crabs is bulldozing my frags so all Okay for behaviour 

I have some Carbon Pads in my spares box under my desk will sort all of that after the test results, think I have a brand new box somewhere

[mcarroll]

New corals "should be" okay as long as you're prepared to test and dose nitrates and phosphates to minimum levels to keep them happy.   As long as they aren't starving and conditions are improved, dino's don't usually bother corals.

 

[Ratvan]

Well the shop were unable to test for Phosphates irritatingly. SO i picked up a Salifert Phosphate Test Kit at half price. 

I make that between 1-3PPM. Probably closer to 1 if i am honest. I did ask if they had anything to increase phosphate but was told to feed more....

[Ratvan]

So had my lights off (ASTA 20) all day and the growth from the earlier photo is fairly clear. This is 3 hours worth from "bare" sand bed

 

 

[mcarroll]

Maybe retest just to be sure everything went how it was supposed to....3.00 ppm PO4 is pretty darned high.  (Test kit isn't out of date is it?)

 

If it's right, then you have plenty of the two basic nutrients in your 3 ppm PO4 and 10-20 ppm NO3.

 

If you test your tank a few days in a row and those numbers seem consistent, then your dino issues pretty much have to be behind you.  Just stay aware of these two levels until the tank finishes normalizing, growing green algae and nice corals, etc.  A little GFO usage isn't going to hurt anything with levels this high...again if that number is accurate.  

 

If you confirm your current test results (3.0 ppm) and decide to redeploy GFO, then I'd say to discontinue GFO usage once you test PO4 levels under 1.0 ppm.

 

21 hours ago, Ratvan said:

I have small clumps of what looks like GHA on my back glass, behind my filter intake, on my HOB output etc.

I missed that before.  This is good!   You'll have to personally stay on top of those little clumps until you have enough herbivores to do it for you.  You don't want to let the clumps grow long or let them spread very much without taking some action.  Use your finger and thumb to pinch the clumps out one by one.  When I do this in my tank I keep a small container of fresh water nearby to put each little pulled clump in and to rinse my fingers between pinches.  If it seems to come back and you don't seem to get anywhere, then you don't have enough herbivores to keep your work clean after you leave.  Boost your CUC.

[Ratvan]

Test kit is in date, I do have issues with being able to correctly identify colours on charts. Makes this hobby so much fun.

 

I have run a re test this morning, I make the PO4 as 1.0 and Nitrates as 20PPM as per photos. 

 

I might have Coraline algae but not certain, my rock has defiantly changed colour from when I first picked it up for the start of the Pico contest. Have a lot of purples, reds and greens that weren't there before.

 

Sorry what is GFO? I've seen it mentioned a few times but no idea what it is or how to use it? 

[Tamberav]

Honestly if it were my tank I would just get the nutrients to reasonable levels. Say 10-15 Nitrate and 0.1 PO4. Plenty high to prevent dino but low enough that it won't stress out inhabitants. 

 

Probably some naysayers to that but I would go for a balanced tank. Besides I doubt every type of dino in the ocean has been described and who is to say some types can't thrive with a nutrient imbalance that's too high?

 

Looks like you already had.high nutrients when the dino showed up. 

 

You can probably beat them either way once other organisms take over. 

 

 

[Ratvan]

15 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Honestly if it were my tank I would just get the nutrients to reasonable levels. Say 10-15 Nitrate and 0.1 PO4. Plenty high to prevent dino but low enough that it won't stress out inhabitants. 

 

Probably some naysayers to that but I would go for a balanced tank. Besides I doubt every type of dino in the ocean has been described and who is to say some types can't thrive with a nutrient imbalance that's too high?

 

Looks like you already had.high nutrients when the dino showed up. 

 

You can probably beat them either way once other organisms take over. 

 

 

Would I be best doing that via water change? I want to keep away from chemicals as much as I can.

What should I do with the stuff currently on the sandbed? Vacuum it away?

[Tamberav]

34 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Would I be best doing that via water change? I want to keep away from chemicals as much as I can.

What should I do with the stuff currently on the sandbed? Vacuum it away?

Dino seems to like water changes (probably iron in it?) but I would do it anyways to get the parameters set somewhere reasonable. I mostly used manual removal on dino. Would blast them off the rock so the filter could catch them in the floss and change the floss very frequently as it turned brown quick. I also ran carbon. Other then that, I kept nutrients at a balanced level. 

 

What is your water change schedule like now? Curious how the PO4 got so high, my guess is the roids?

 

I can't make any promises, it's just how I would tackle my own tank.  

 

 

 

 

[Ratvan]

2 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

I can't make any promises, it's just how I would tackle my own tank.  

Cheers for that mate. I appreciate the help. 

 

Mine seems to be located only on the sandbed on the right hand side of the tank, thinking about this now I might have a flow issue contributing to this? Might see if I can pick up a small wavemaker/ powerhead and see what that does. I have tried a blackout and tried no feeding. 

 

I added Carbon to the HOB this morning, and waiting to hear back regarding some Cheato. I have spare chambers in my HOB that I could try and utilise 

 

Water Change Schedule was 50% twice a week as I was dipping my Zoa's in an attempt to rid the tank of Nudi's. I stopped that this week when I noticed the algae 

 

High PO4 I attribute to overfeeding and forgetting to change my filter floss...... for a few weeks 

[Tamberav]

I never found a fuge to be helpful for dino (if I already had dino), mostly because it loved to grow in the fuge even more so than the DT. Perhaps due to the spectrum of fuge lights. 

 

I find flow certainly helpful, I had a bare bottom in the SPS tank so I cranked up the flow and blasted the dino clumps to hell. lol

 

I have a few strands of dino in my pico too so don't feel bad. Mine is dying off by just blasting it off and changing floss and continuing regular water change maintenance. I have GHA taking its place but idc.. the gha looks wispy and weaksauce. I bet a good size snail or hermit would eat it up. I started with dry rock so there is just lot of unclaimed area for the nasties.  

[Ratvan]

6 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

I never found a fuge to be helpful for dino (if I already had dino), mostly because it loved to grow in the fuge even more so than the DT. Perhaps due to the spectrum of fuge lights. 

 

I find flow certainly helpful, I had a bare bottom in the SPS tank so I cranked up the flow and blasted the dino clumps to hell. lol

 

I have a few strands of dino in my pico too so don't feel bad. Mine is dying off by just blasting it off and changing floss and continuing regular water change maintenance. I have GHA taking its place but idc.. the gha looks wispy and weaksauce. I bet a good size snail or hermit would eat it up. I started with dry rock so there is just lot of unclaimed area for the nasties.  

 

I'm considering removing the sandbed completely and relocating my Nassarius Snail somewhere else

What is your WC schedule like?

[Ratvan]

Also I decided that I would test the LFS water that I purchased yesterday. Mainly because I haven't done this since I set up the tank. 

 

PO4 is roughly 0.25

NItrates is 20-40PPM

 

So I called the LFS, the water I have been buying is recycled shop system water that has ammonia filtered out, so essentially not that interested in Nitrates. Yay.

 

I think I may have to bring forward the purchase of my own RODI

 

[Tamberav]

17 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

 

I'm considering removing the sandbed completely and relocating my Nassarius Snail somewhere else

What is your WC schedule like?

I just do 90/100 percent a week pico bowl style.

 

The nass snail doesn't need sand to live. He will just sleep on the bottom and eat leftovers per usual.

 

If I add sand to mine I plan on a heavier grade I can easily clean but not really in a rush.

[Tamberav]

23 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Also I decided that I would test the LFS water that I purchased yesterday. Mainly because I haven't done this since I set up the tank. 

 

PO4 is roughly 0.25

NItrates is 20-40PPM

 

So I called the LFS, the water I have been buying is recycled shop system water that has ammonia filtered out, so essentially not that interested in Nitrates. Yay.

 

I think I may have to bring forward the purchase of my own RODI

 

Oh wow...I would be pissed to pay for their toilet water. Especially if I had fish since it could have parasites.

 

You can just buy jugs if distilled and salt mix as well if you didn't go RODI water.

[Tamberav]

Plus water changes replenish trace elements and alk/ca/mg which is probably getting used up to some extent in their tanks and they probably lax about doing their own water changes. 

 

Big yikes.

[Ratvan]

Just now, Tamberav said:

Oh wow...I would be pissed to pay for their toilet water. Especially if I had fish since it could have parasites.

At least I know now, and it makes sense as to why it is cheaper than other water in my area, such a shame because they have the best selection of Corals in the area. I just know now to go a little further for my water. 

 

This lunch I am going to see if i can pick up a small wavemaker for the Pico, will also pop into the hardware shop and pick up a few things for my BB set up (plastic cutting board for tank bottom) and start to remove the sandbed slowly.

 

Thanks for all your help @Tamberav & @mcarroll

[Ratvan]

Any ideas for a small powerhead/wavemaker? I want something that wont take up too much space in the tank 

Fairly sure I have a Ehiem Powerball around somewhere but think that would take up over half the tank as it is