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Clown79

Anthias for 25g?

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Clown79

Anyone know of an anthias you can keep in a 25g?

 

I have 2 clowns and a midas blenny, I'd like an open swimmer since the other 3 are always in their homes.

 

My nutrients are always really low, so I think I can do another fish.

 

 

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TILTON

I think you have to feed anthias like 3 times a day and they eat a ton.

 

My next couple of fish are going to be an orchid dottyback and 4 line wrasse after I get a Longnose Hawkfish.  Those two are suppose to be pretty good swimmers.

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Naekuh

Aren't Anthias also hardcore swimmers similar to tangs? 

So they need a lot of open space to not get stressed? 

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Psychosis

I think certain fairy and flasher wrasse might be a better fit in a 25, plus they're gorgeous. Just don't hold out for a harem. 

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Tamberav

Fathead Anthia.... not a crazy active swimmer though if that is what you are looking for. They don't need to be fed often either, 1-2 times a day will do. I have one in my Lagoon. He was shy at first but now hangs out in front. They sort of hover and flit around. Not a big schooler like the others. I picked it for its traits to fit well in a cube tank and it is beautiful.

 

A flasher might work well too although sometimes midas can turn into bullies and most of the small flashers probably would not stand a chance to harassment. 

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mwhitelock

bangaii cardinals hang in the open! 

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TILTON
1 hour ago, Tamberav said:

Fathead Anthia.... not a crazy active swimmer though if that is what you are looking for. They don't need to be fed often either, 1-2 times a day will do. I have one in my Lagoon. He was shy at first but now hangs out in front. They sort of hover and flit around. Not a big schooler like the others. I picked it for its traits to fit well in a cube tank and it is beautiful.

 

A flasher might work well too although sometimes midas can turn into bullies and most of the small flashers probably would not stand a chance to harassment. 

 

Do you have this one?

 

https://m.liveaquaria.com/divers-den/product/457460/fathead-sunburst-anthias

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Tamberav
1 hour ago, TILTON said:

Yes their behavior is different from typical anthias. 

 

DD overprices them like CRAZY for some reason. I noticed recently DD and LA prices increasing on some fish. Starkii damsel off LA was $40 about 6 months ago and it is now $70. It was $40 for years and years before. DD prices are creeping up on some fish too.

 

I paid $65 at the LFS for my Anthia. 

 

Fishy Biz has smalls for $74

 

https://fishybusinessaquatics.com/fish/anthias/fathead-sunburst-anthias-serranocirrhitus-latus/

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Clown79
6 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Fathead Anthia.... not a crazy active swimmer though if that is what you are looking for. They don't need to be fed often either, 1-2 times a day will do. I have one in my Lagoon. He was shy at first but now hangs out in front. They sort of hover and flit around. Not a big schooler like the others. I picked it for its traits to fit well in a cube tank and it is beautiful.

 

A flasher might work well too although sometimes midas can turn into bullies and most of the small flashers probably would not stand a chance to harassment. 

That's actually the anthias I really like and was considering.

 

My midas is a lazy midas, he stays in his hole all day, darts out for a few seconds and back in.

 

My clowns rarely leave their area. 

 

So all 3 fish stick to 1 area of the tank near each other, the rest is available real estate😁

 

8 hours ago, TILTON said:

I think you have to feed anthias like 3 times a day and they eat a ton.

 

My next couple of fish are going to be an orchid dottyback and 4 line wrasse after I get a Longnose Hawkfish.  Those two are suppose to be pretty good swimmers.

I love dotty's but I've had one and the aggressive behaviour and picking on shrimp is an issue.

 

Love 6 line but they are known to become a holes in smaller tanks.

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Tamberav
1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

That's actually the anthias I really like and was considering.

 

My midas is a lazy midas, he stays in his hole all day, darts out for a few seconds and back in.

 

My clowns rarely leave their area. 

 

So all 3 fish stick to 1 area of the tank near each other, the rest is available real estate😁

 

I love dotty's but I've had one and the aggressive behaviour and picking on shrimp is an issue.

 

Love 6 line but they are known to become a holes in smaller tanks.

You will be fine with a fathead then....perfect anthia for a nano. Go for it!

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Clown79
6 hours ago, Tamberav said:

You will be fine with a fathead then....perfect anthia for a nano. Go for it!

Sweet! 

Now gotta find one😁

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lkoechle
40 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Says minimum tank size 70 gallons.

 

Stores like this aren't known for over-estimating their tank size estimates.

 

Are we sure we are thinking long-term with this suggestion?

LA actually does overestimate tank size.

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Tamberav
54 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Says minimum tank size 70 gallons.

 

Stores like this aren't known for over-estimating their tank size estimates.

 

Are we sure we are thinking long-term with this suggestion?

They can get a decent size in the wild but likely not reach that max size in captivity if kept as a single. 

 

Behavior wise they are suited to a smaller tank more than typical anthias and I chose this one for that reason.

 

 

 

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mcarroll

So you think they overestimated on this fish for some reason...as in "70 gallons" is incorrect?

 

Seems like an unlikely error, but maybe.

 

How long have you kept one of these successfully in a tiny tank?

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mcarroll
4 hours ago, lkoechle said:

LA actually does overestimate tank size.

I checked a few other fish on live aquaria and their estimates seem to be reasonable.

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Clown79

If we consider the recommended tank sizes as 100% accurste, then none of us should have most of the fish we do in our tanks.

 

Angelfish are kept in 25-30g- recommended size is 60g +

 

Clowns 30g 

 

Blennies 30g

 

Chromis 30g

 

Cardinal 30g

 

Flasher wrasse 55g

 

Gobies 30g

 

 

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TILTON

I am actually interested in a cherub angel and they recommend 55+ but I see quite a few people have them in their nano.  🤷‍♂️

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lkoechle
56 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

If we consider the recommended tank sizes as 100% accurste, then none of us should have most of the fish we do in our tanks.

 

Angelfish are kept in 25-30g- recommended size is 60g +

 

Clowns 30g 

 

Blennies 30g

 

Chromis 30g

 

Cardinal 30g

 

Flasher wrasse 55g

 

Gobies 30g

 

 

and that's not even getting into the thoughts of foot print.  a 60 gallon shallow 48 inches in length is a different ball game than a 60 cube which is only 24 inches in length. so when 60 gallons is states as a size what does that even mean? especially because you can reduce that 60g to 40g if you put in enough and rock sand.

 

Truly, the recommendations are rough guidelines to give you a ball park number to start with.  there is a lot of other factors. and I always take Live Aquaria's reccomendation and go a size down and consider that to be the more realistic number. but my tanks are always shallows so I always have a larger footprint than normal.  

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Tamberav
9 hours ago, mcarroll said:

So you think they overestimated on this fish for some reason...as in "70 gallons" is incorrect?

 

Seems like an unlikely error, but maybe.

 

How long have you kept one of these successfully in a tiny tank?

I think they grouped the estimated size in with other anthias. This anthia is very different behavior wise. 

 

It is less active and tends to hang out and slowly flit by it's hiding ledge/cave. They are not social like normal anthias so will be happy as a single fish. They don't need to be fed as often.

 

They are also shy and peaceful so tank mates matter more than tank size imo.

 

A 40g might be a nice size but a small female shouldn't feel stressed in a 25g with calm tank mates and a nice ledge to dart into. 

 

Video of 3 in a large tank...they don't school really just all find their spot and chill there.

 

 

Mine acts similar and will just flit around and hover mid to right side of tank and rarely visits the left side.

 

If anything Clown79 may have been looking for something more active.

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Clown79
16 hours ago, Tamberav said:

I think they grouped the estimated size in with other anthias. This anthia is very different behavior wise. 

 

It is less active and tends to hang out and slowly flit by it's hiding ledge/cave. They are not social like normal anthias so will be happy as a single fish. They don't need to be fed as often.

 

They are also shy and peaceful so tank mates matter more than tank size imo.

 

A 40g might be a nice size but a small female shouldn't feel stressed in a 25g with calm tank mates and a nice ledge to dart into. 

 

Video of 3 in a large tank...they don't school really just all find their spot and chill there.

 

 

Mine acts similar and will just flit around and hover mid to right side of tank and rarely visits the left side.

 

If anything Clown79 may have been looking for something more active.

I don't necessarily want something very active but something that hangs out a lot.

I'd do an angel but worry about coral nipping.

 

Blue Chromis and cardinals are just not my favourites. There is 1 damsel I like but never see here. 

 

 

My clowns host their euphyllia area and seldomly leave, when they do it's for a few seconds.

 

My midas, which I got because it's a swimmer, is lazy! He sits in his rock.

 

So I need something that won't be hidden.

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Tamberav
53 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

I don't necessarily want something very active but something that hangs out a lot.

I'd do an angel but worry about coral nipping.

 

Blue Chromis and cardinals are just not my favourites. There is 1 damsel I like but never see here. 

 

 

My clowns host their euphyllia area and seldomly leave, when they do it's for a few seconds.

 

My midas, which I got because it's a swimmer, is lazy! He sits in his rock.

 

So I need something that won't be hidden.

Went upstairs and took a video of mine...excuse the dirty sand, it gets icky a day or 2 before water change day, probably because I have too much crap on the sand bed. Mixing water now 🙂

 

Basically she watches me and chills out front. They are shy at first though. 

 

 

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Clown79
7 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Went upstairs and took a video of mine...excuse the dirty sand, it gets icky a day or 2 before water change day, probably because I have too much crap on the sand bed. Mixing water now 🙂

 

Basically she watches me and chills out front. They are shy at first though. 

 

 

I can't see the sand amongst the corals. 

It's a beautiful tank.

 

I love the fish. Seems like the kind of movement I need. 

 

Thank you for sharing your video

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mcarroll

I admit they look comfy enough in that video.  :wink:   So you have me intrigued.

 

From guessing, that tank in the (first )video looks bigger than (3 x 25 = ) 75 gallons....if so then they should look pretty comfy.  :biggrin:   

 

There isn't nearly as much swimming space in a 25 gallon.  Nor a lot of hiding/sleeping space.  In a tank that small both of those factors become very important to most fish....even more-so than in a larger tank.

 

A clownfish in that size tank I can rationalize...they're very small and adapted to occupying small spaces...but I wonder about a five- or six-inch Anthias.

 

There doesn't seem to be a lot (of interest) published about these (aka) Hawkfish Anthias in the lit., so I looked in my books.....

 

"Coral Reef Fishes" by Lieske and Myers says they come from "caves and ledges of dropoffs at depths of 15 to 70 meters" and in groups....similar to how they describe some other Anthias.

 

I didn't see any Anthias mentioned as occurring singly.

 

"Marine Fishes" by Michael says 30 gallons for the minimum tank size, suggests 2-4 times per day feedings - sensible for a high-energy planktivore.  Further, he indicates they might be happier in a dimly lit reef vs a high-intensity one - sensible considering their average depths noted above compared to the surface-orientation of "most" Anthias.  Lastly he says they won't tolerate aggressive tank mates, and that he's seen them mostly in pairs or trios with one dominant (larger) individual, but in small tanks to keep them in singles.  

 

For comparison, 30 gallons is similar to Michael's space recommendation for the larger species of Clownfish.  Smaller Clownfish species get a 20 gallon minimum tank recommendation.

 

IMO

25 gallons for this Anthias (Serranocirrhitus latus) is borderline IMO:  Doable if done right, but probably not a setup/fish for beginners.  The pre-existing clowns and midas blenny are both potentially aggressive tank mates, especially at night when it comes to everyone jockeying for low-stress sleeping areas.  But it could all work out too!  Keep the lights on the low side!  :)

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mcarroll
On 4/10/2019 at 6:39 PM, Clown79 said:

If we consider the recommended tank sizes as 100% accurste, then none of us should have most of the fish we do in our tanks.

Without disagreeing, but to counter slightly...and without reference to anyone specifically...

 

I do think there are A LOT OF TANKS out there that are filled with fish that ought not to be in them - based on size as well as other factors.  If more folks went by more conservative size recommendations, then more folks would succeed more frequently than what we generally see. 

 

That's not to say riskier things "can't be done", such as putting a "30 gallon fish" into a 20 gallon tank, it's just to say those things are riskier

 

Beginners in this hobby, in far too many instances, don't seem to be appropriately risk-averse considering the wild-collected status of the animals we are usually talking about - this isn't the realm to be an Evel Knievel and test the limits. 

image.jpeg.22ca4abe79770fbc4c8986c714a5ba1a.jpeg

 

On the contrary, they deserve maximum focus on conserving their lives, if not even breeding them.

 

 

If you are (or someone is) successfully aquaculturing the fish in question, then arguably maybe it's for experimentation like this, or even for food!  If that's the case then Evel Knievel-away!  Test those limits and take it to the next level!!  :)

image.jpeg.d860e82d65d2c62fcfc4cd707c68f69b.jpeg

 

 

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