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Clown79

Anthias for 25g?

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Tamberav
1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

I admit they look comfy enough in that video.  :wink:   So you have me intrigued.

 

From guessing, that tank in the (first )video looks bigger than (3 x 25 = ) 75 gallons....if so then they should look pretty comfy.  :biggrin:   

 

There isn't nearly as much swimming space in a 25 gallon.  Nor a lot of hiding/sleeping space.  In a tank that small both of those factors become very important to most fish....even more-so than in a larger tank.

 

A clownfish in that size tank I can rationalize...they're very small and adapted to occupying small spaces...but I wonder about a five- or six-inch Anthias.

 

There doesn't seem to be a lot (of interest) published about these (aka) Hawkfish Anthias in the lit., so I looked in my books.....

 

"Coral Reef Fishes" by Lieske and Myers says they come from "caves and ledges of dropoffs at depths of 15 to 70 meters" and in groups....similar to how they describe some other Anthias.

 

I didn't see any Anthias mentioned as occurring singly.

 

"Marine Fishes" by Michael says 30 gallons for the minimum tank size, suggests 2-4 times per day feedings - sensible for a high-energy planktivore.  Further, he indicates they might be happier in a dimly lit reef vs a high-intensity one - sensible considering their average depths noted above compared to the surface-orientation of "most" Anthias.  Lastly he says they won't tolerate aggressive tank mates, and that he's seen them mostly in pairs or trios with one dominant (larger) individual, but in small tanks to keep them in singles.  

 

For comparison, 30 gallons is similar to Michael's space recommendation for the larger species of Clownfish.  Smaller Clownfish species get a 20 gallon minimum tank recommendation.

 

IMO

25 gallons for this Anthias (Serranocirrhitus latus) is borderline IMO:  Doable if done right, but probably not a setup/fish for beginners.  The pre-existing clowns and midas blenny are both potentially aggressive tank mates, especially at night when it comes to everyone jockeying for low-stress sleeping areas.  But it could all work out too!  Keep the lights on the low side!  :)

 

Looks like Lieske says they are in groups... and Michael says they are in pairs or trio's. Then again Lieske wasn't very descriptive. What are other anthias? Maybe the Borbonius? They supposedly are pretty similar behavior to fatheads but don't quote me on that, I never looked into it. 

 

I honestly watched videos of them in the wild before I purchased mine and they were 1-3 just chilling by a ledge. I also came across some info from divers who described them in the wild in a similar manner. 

 

I mostly looked into people who were keeping these fish successfully and they don't seem to require the same amount of feeding and some said they will even refuse feedings if offered too much. Twice a day seems to be enough. 

 

I agree these guys are not beginner fish but Clown79 isn't a beginner 🙂 Like most anthias they can be picky about foods at first and easily bullied although mine has got some spunk to her.

 

I would assume if a small female/juvie kept single, may end up like many single anthias do as some sort of 'butch' female, never fully growing or becoming a super male, this is just speculation though. I guess I am saying It may never reach a full size without stimulation of another. 

 

Agree with the caves/hiding spaces and lower light may be helpful.... I have a nano-box and run mints and zero whites. Although my once shy fish is very bold now and doesn't shy away from activity around the tank. I will say the IM25g is easy to scape depth and caves into. 

 

I actually put hours and hours of research into the Fathead Anthia before purchasing. People tend to gravitate towards lyretails since they are cheap and easier but just looking at how they school in the wild, they seem wildly inappropriate for a nano.

 

 

 

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lkoechle

I just think its amusing someone is giving @Clown79 the beginner experience 🤣🤣🤣.   Honestly clown, I trust you.  if you don't think its working out, I know you'll rehome the fish. lol

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Clown79
3 hours ago, lkoechle said:

I just think its amusing someone is giving @Clown79 the beginner experience 🤣🤣🤣.   Honestly clown, I trust you.  if you don't think its working out, I know you'll rehome the fish. lol

😂 well, I am a beginner with this fish, that's gotta count.

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Clown79
9 hours ago, mcarroll said:

I admit they look comfy enough in that video.  :wink:   So you have me intrigued.

 

From guessing, that tank in the (first )video looks bigger than (3 x 25 = ) 75 gallons....if so then they should look pretty comfy.  :biggrin:   

 

There isn't nearly as much swimming space in a 25 gallon.  Nor a lot of hiding/sleeping space.  In a tank that small both of those factors become very important to most fish....even more-so than in a larger tank.

 

A clownfish in that size tank I can rationalize...they're very small and adapted to occupying small spaces...but I wonder about a five- or six-inch Anthias.

 

There doesn't seem to be a lot (of interest) published about these (aka) Hawkfish Anthias in the lit., so I looked in my books.....

 

"Coral Reef Fishes" by Lieske and Myers says they come from "caves and ledges of dropoffs at depths of 15 to 70 meters" and in groups....similar to how they describe some other Anthias.

 

I didn't see any Anthias mentioned as occurring singly.

 

"Marine Fishes" by Michael says 30 gallons for the minimum tank size, suggests 2-4 times per day feedings - sensible for a high-energy planktivore.  Further, he indicates they might be happier in a dimly lit reef vs a high-intensity one - sensible considering their average depths noted above compared to the surface-orientation of "most" Anthias.  Lastly he says they won't tolerate aggressive tank mates, and that he's seen them mostly in pairs or trios with one dominant (larger) individual, but in small tanks to keep them in singles.  

 

For comparison, 30 gallons is similar to Michael's space recommendation for the larger species of Clownfish.  Smaller Clownfish species get a 20 gallon minimum tank recommendation.

 

IMO

25 gallons for this Anthias (Serranocirrhitus latus) is borderline IMO:  Doable if done right, but probably not a setup/fish for beginners.  The pre-existing clowns and midas blenny are both potentially aggressive tank mates, especially at night when it comes to everyone jockeying for low-stress sleeping areas.  But it could all work out too!  Keep the lights on the low side!  :)

My clown isn't aggressive and hasn't been with any additions, excluding my hand. 

She only gets pushy when anything goes in her area.

She has her territory and has actually gotten accustomed to the blenny going in it for food, she leaves him alone.

 

My blenny has his hole in the rock, once again he doesn't leave besides darting out for a second and back in.

 

I have actually read that with this particular anthias, it doesn't require 70g, because of its traits.

 

Once again, every tank, its inhabitants, the owner, the actual fish need consideration when choosing a fish.

 

If ppl can put an angelfish in a 25g, I think this anthias is doable.

 

 

This is my tank.

 

The orange circle is the blennies home, he darts as far as the pink line and the clowns area, for 2 seconds and back in.

 

The clowns stay in the green circular area and rarely swim to the pink line or past.

 

That means the complete rest of the tank is free territory

20190412_111322.jpg

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mcarroll

Love your tank....a classic good look!

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mcarroll
On 4/12/2019 at 7:20 AM, lkoechle said:

I just think its amusing someone is giving @Clown79 the beginner experience 🤣🤣🤣.   Honestly clown, I trust you.  if you don't think its working out, I know you'll rehome the fish. lol

On 4/12/2019 at 11:03 AM, Clown79 said:

😂 well, I am a beginner with this fish, that's gotta count.

Agreed!  We gotta have "beginners mind" wherever possible in life, I say. 🙂  In addition, speaking for myself at least, I appreciate some healthy skepticism around adding fish to tanks.  

 

It could be said (and probably has been) that it takes a certain amount of expertise to be this much of a beginner.

 

To that point, I'm amused that I amused @lkoechle.  😄

 

I'm also not just "someone", BTW, I'm mcarroll!  😎😉

 

I've been around here more than 5 min and know @clown79 at least a little bit.  

 

Mentioning "beginners" was for reference....it was my hope that this was obvious in the writing, but maybe hope in my writing is misplaced? Possible!! 😉😉 

 

On 4/12/2019 at 1:51 AM, mcarroll said:

IMO

25 gallons for this Anthias (Serranocirrhitus latus) is borderline IMO:  Doable if done right, but probably not a setup/fish for beginners.

See?  Nobody asserted undue beginner-ness on anyone.  Just a harmless conditional statement to help explain what I meant by 'borderline' and 'IMO'.  😉🤣

 

On 4/12/2019 at 7:20 AM, lkoechle said:

Honestly clown, I trust you.

 

I trust @clown79 too, but that has nothing to do with wether a given fish is right for a given tank.  This is a little-known fish, so having a thread that aswers that question makes it a great thread!  And the truth is, this conversation is for all beginners that come later and read the thread, regardless of who's present now.  I like to consider that to the extent possible in most posts I make, so I often end up addressing beginner-dom in some way. 😉

 

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Clown79
9 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Agreed!  We gotta have "beginners mind" wherever possible in life, I say. 🙂  In addition, speaking for myself at least, I appreciate some healthy skepticism around adding fish to tanks.  

 

It could be said (and probably has been) that it takes a certain amount of expertise to be this much of a beginner.

 

To that point, I'm amused that I amused @lkoechle.  😄

 

I'm also not just "someone", BTW, I'm mcarroll!  😎😉

 

I've been around here more than 5 min and know @clown79 at least a little bit.  

 

Mentioning "beginners" was for reference....it was my hope that this was obvious in the writing, but maybe hope in my writing is misplaced? Possible!! 😉😉 

 

See?  Nobody asserted undue beginner-ness on anyone.  Just a harmless conditional statement to help explain what I meant by 'borderline' and 'IMO'.  😉🤣

 

 

I trust @clown79 too, but that has nothing to do with wether a given fish is right for a given tank.  This is a little-known fish, so having a thread that aswers that question makes it a great thread!  And the truth is, this conversation is for all beginners that come later and read the thread, regardless of who's present now.  I like to consider that to the extent possible in most posts I make, so I often end up addressing beginner-dom in some way. 😉

 

I think  no matter how much experience one may have, we always have room for growth and never stop learning. 

 

I wanted to ask about the fish because rules are broken for some fish but not for all.

 

I'd never put a tang, trigger, or other anthias in my tank, it's simply can't provide the habitat thry need. 

 

Now of course the anthias I love is doable, it's the only anthias I have read of be housed in smaller systems...its a very expensive fish here when in stock so I may have to reconsider.

 

I know I don't want cardinals, blue chromis, or gobies.

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Clown79

I wish Angel's weren't known to nip. I'd love a dwarf angel.

 

 

I was thinking a orchid dottyback but dottyback aggressive reputation worries me.

 

 

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scrappy34

I have the same tank as you.. my firefish is pretty much my show fish.. always out in the open swimming with/against the current all day long. In the future I'd love to have 2 firefish that swim together.

 

my other fish stay in their areas (2 clowns, tailspot blenny, & jawfish) 

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Tamberav
3 hours ago, Clown79 said:

I wish Angel's weren't known to nip. I'd love a dwarf angel.

 

 

I was thinking a orchid dottyback but dottyback aggressive reputation worries me.

 

 

My orchid turned into a flippin evil beast after a year. 

 

An Assessor would work, yellow or blue but not sure if you get captive bred ORA fish there? The wild ones have a pretty high price tag. 

 

You can't do a fang or a firefish since you have the midas, too similar shaped.

 

Could try a royal gramma, not active all over the tank but fair chance it will hover in decent spot. They are more mild mannered than an orchid. 

 

Talbot damsel or springer damsel are pretty laid back. The clowns might give them a little hard time but a damsel can handle it. Starkii's work too but I am guessing they are not available there. 

 

Flasher wrasse might work, they are easily bullied so depends if your midas. I know he just chills now but doesn't mean he will forever, they can turn into asshats. 

 

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Clown79
57 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

My orchid turned into a flippin evil beast after a year. 

 

An Assessor would work, yellow or blue but not sure if you get captive bred ORA fish there? The wild ones have a pretty high price tag. 

 

You can't do a fang or a firefish since you have the midas, too similar shaped.

 

Could try a royal gramma, not active all over the tank but fair chance it will hover in decent spot. They are more mild mannered than an orchid. 

 

Talbot damsel or springer damsel are pretty laid back. The clowns might give them a little hard time but a damsel can handle it. Starkii's work too but I am guessing they are not available there. 

 

Flasher wrasse might work, they are easily bullied so depends if your midas. I know he just chills now but doesn't mean he will forever, they can turn into asshats. 

 

That's my concern with the orchid. Many say its docile but others had what you went through.

 

I don't mind chromis but they are common but the blue would be different since all other fish in the tank are orange/yellow.

 

My midas definitely has guts, he actually goes into the clowns area which ticks off the female but no fights have occurred. Kinda funny to watch. 

 

No ORA here. 

 

I have yet to see a flasher wrasse. 6 line is a common one but they can have attitude.

 

It's so hard to find a cool fish for a nano.

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Naekuh
On 4/18/2019 at 9:59 AM, Clown79 said:

I wish Angel's weren't known to nip. I'd love a dwarf angel.

nah nipping corals is the least of your concerns clown.

 

My pygmy was a sweet heart, then she found a nice cave which my clown pair had no care in the world for.

Now the pygmy thinks its the queen of the tank, even trying to push around my 6 line and bullying my electric indigo dotty. 

My 6 line is aggressive enough to fight back, but my poor dotty, it tries to stay as incognito as possible, otherwise my angel gets mad it lost to the wrasse and takes it out on it. 

 

My clowns dont want anything to do with either of them as long as there hosted wave maker is left alone.  Sigh... why the wave maker?!?!?!

Double Sigh...

 

Angels are asshats, i hear the flame is no different, and coral beauty is also a hit or miss.  

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Clown79
10 hours ago, Naekuh said:

nah nipping corals is the least of your concerns clown.

 

My pygmy was a sweet heart, then she found a nice cave which my clown pair had no care in the world for.

Now the pygmy thinks its the queen of the tank, even trying to push around my 6 line and bullying my electric indigo dotty. 

My 6 line is aggressive enough to fight back, but my poor dotty, it tries to stay as incognito as possible, otherwise my angel gets mad it lost to the wrasse and takes it out on it. 

 

My clowns dont want anything to do with either of them as long as there hosted wave maker is left alone.  Sigh... why the wave maker?!?!?!

Double Sigh...

 

Angels are asshats, i hear the flame is no different, and coral beauty is also a hit or miss.  

Man, that's like a war zone. Lol.

 

I hear they become jerks, not about will they but when. Apparently it's not as bad in large tanks but still evident.

 

My tank is peaceful, so definitely want to keep it that way.

 

I'd love the Starkii @Tamberav suggested. That would be perfect!

 

My old pair of clowns in my 55g hosted powerheads, it was the funniest thing. They eventually moved on to a finger leather which ticked off the leather.

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Clown79
On 4/18/2019 at 4:03 PM, Tamberav said:

My orchid turned into a flippin evil beast after a year. 

 

An Assessor would work, yellow or blue but not sure if you get captive bred ORA fish there? The wild ones have a pretty high price tag. 

 

You can't do a fang or a firefish since you have the midas, too similar shaped.

 

Could try a royal gramma, not active all over the tank but fair chance it will hover in decent spot. They are more mild mannered than an orchid. 

 

Talbot damsel or springer damsel are pretty laid back. The clowns might give them a little hard time but a damsel can handle it. Starkii's work too but I am guessing they are not available there. 

 

Flasher wrasse might work, they are easily bullied so depends if your midas. I know he just chills now but doesn't mean he will forever, they can turn into asshats. 

 

I have decided on the starcki damsel. I absolutely love the look and everything I hVe read said it's pretty passive damsel wise.

 

My lfs is getting them in so I should have 1 here in 2 weeks...gotta get my qt set up.

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Tamberav
26 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

I have decided on the starcki damsel. I absolutely love the look and everything I hVe read said it's pretty passive damsel wise.

 

My lfs is getting them in so I should have 1 here in 2 weeks...gotta get my qt set up.

I have one in the 22g...it is lowest on the pecking order....my Royal Gramma gives it a hard time. 

 

I never had an issue with them....even when they tried to be bossy they just made funny faces and flares fins but never nipped.

 

They are gorgeous fish and a great substitute for a angelfish as the coloring and shape is similar without the nipping.

 

They like to dig out a cave to sleep in.

 

Here is mine:

 

31802300848_813fc2a2fa_c.jpg&key=10aacb4

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Clown79
29 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

I have one in the 22g...it is lowest on the pecking order....my Royal Gramma gives it a hard time. 

 

I never had an issue with them....even when they tried to be bossy they just made funny faces and flares fins but never nipped.

 

They are gorgeous fish and a great substitute for a angelfish as the coloring and shape is similar without the nipping.

 

They like to dig out a cave to sleep in.

 

Here is mine:

 

31802300848_813fc2a2fa_c.jpg&key=10aacb4

Hmm, I don't have much sand but I do have a overhang it can sleep under

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Tamberav
3 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Hmm, I don't have much sand but I do have a overhang it can sleep under

Mines in a bare bottom so that will be fine. If they have sand they dig though so it was more a warning to watch for buried corals.

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