sps and pc's

[clowntank10]

i ahvea 20 High. and i ahve it hooked with 4 65 awtt pc's 2 actinics and 2 10,00k. is this enough to keep sps with decent color and growth

[yessongs]

Not enough lighting.

[clowntank10]

why not and how do U know? seriously.

[Sushi]

you'll probably be able to keep them, but they won't thrive as they would under Metal Halides

 

as for coloration, you probably will experience some browning out... i'm not too sure about growth under PC's.

[zzpw3x]

Some monitpora would be fine, but I agree they will probably be some shade of brown or maybe green.

 

You actually have quite a bit of light in my opinion, so if it was in the upper 3rd of the tank I see no reason why you would not be able to grow Montipora. I had a digita under 96 W 50/50 in a 10G and it was fine for months and it was growing. I eventually moved it to MH, but it was fine while under PCs.

 

Dale

[bickmade]

do a search for it, alot of people are doing it, you can only do monti digitata, and monti caps. DO not try keeping anything else. Also note you can get away with a derasa clam as well. Hope this helps.

[ryuseiboy]

nah you can do sps under pc's. Look at this guys tank...clams...acros....all with nice coloration and only 2x36 watts pc lighting it! http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=11234

[DRZL-sauras]

those are rare though not everyone can pull that off..and not to sound like a prick but he has some pretty easy acros growing in there...and the harder ones look alot more bland than what in reality they should be...I dont know what the big pep rally is about.... and the clams....dont sweat that...when clams are young they are almost strict phyto consumers and really dont rely on light...try that with a larger calm and say bye bye bye like NSYNC...lol...sry im bored...

 

me also being a stickler for experienced based responses,

 

At a point I had my 70W bulb quit on me, it was supplemented by 65W super act and a 65W 10K PC...thats 130W PC mind you....so whilst this happened i said f*ck it im going bigger so ordered a 250W setup..catch, i had to wait a week...i said "no problem some ppl on NR.com do it just with PC's hardy har"....wellllllllll.......as the week progressed...all i can say is bleecchhhh...EVERYTHING started browning out...even my easygoing Monti's.....but when i got the 250W boy did it come back with a vengeance....moral dont kid a kidder, it really doesnt work out...for you being the observer and its corny coloration and for the coral being unhappy..

[Withers]

At a point I had my 70W bulb quit on me, it was supplemented by 65W super act and a 65W 10K PC...thats 130W PC mind you....so whilst this happened i said f*ck it im going bigger so ordered a 250W setup..catch, i had to wait a week...i said "no problem some ppl on NR.com do it just with PC's hardy har"....wellllllllll.......as the week progressed...all i can say is bleecchhhh...EVERYTHING started browning out...even my easygoing Monti's.....but when i got the 250W boy did it come back with a vengeance....moral dont kid a kidder, it really doesnt work out...for you being the observer and its corny coloration and for the coral being unhappy..

 

could they have browned out because of the fact that you switched from a high intensity light to a not-so high intensity light very very quickly? they never had a chance to acclimate to the new lighting, so they browned out. so while it was caused by the PC's, there could have been other forces at work

[DRZL-sauras]

when has 70W been a high intensity light?...I took that out because 70W was barely even cutting it....Water Params are lovely as well so its not that...but i do see your point which was a good one but in my case i think its negligible....For SPS 90% of its care is based on zooanxthelle cosuming light..so whether you have everything else perfect in water qualtiy and feeding you put yourself at a big disadvantage by having weak lights...IMO i like pushing the envelope as much as anyone but if you get down to the facts the odds are greatly stacked against you...

 

but F it, people will do what they want regardless, and im tired of having noobs and tarts tell me the fine art of reefing...If you going SPS w/ PC have fun looking at poop colored sticksX)

[birdman204]

Originally posted by bickmade

do a search for it, alot of people are doing it, you can only do monti digitata, and monti caps.  DO not try keeping anything else.  Also note you can get away with a derasa clam as well.  Hope this helps.

I have had the Larry Jackson Purple Monster Acro wanna be under the 70 watters, with growth and color. Also, crocea's will do great under this light in a tank less than 12 inches deep.

 

Originally posted by ryuseiboy

nah you can do sps under pc's. Look at this guys tank...clams...acros....all with nice coloration and only 2x36 watts pc lighting it! http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=11234

He also owns last mos. TOTM at Rc.com

 

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

For SPS 90% of its care is based on zooanxthelle cosuming light..

You answered your own affect with that statement. The brown color in corals is caused by an excess of zooxanthelle. When you took off the 70W, the corals kicked up zooxanthelle production to counter effect their being less effective with the light removed, Hence their immediate browning in coloration.

Gilmans tank 32 w pc.

http://www.oc-creative.com/reef/NoteDetail.asp?id=95

[DRZL-sauras]

Originally posted by birdman204

I have had the Larry Jackson Purple Monster Acro wanna be under the 70 watters, with growth and color. Also, crocea's will do great under this light in a tank less than 12 inches deep.

 

Thats nice but that doesnt usually happen...Ive had anenomes do well under NO fluorescents....would i recommend it? No...one thing is to boast another is to advise...I know you love throwin around pics of your little minibow but take in mind not all of the people browsing see that as the mold of a SPS nano. SPS even if captive-bred colonies come from light much higher than that of the lowly 70W....Look at any SPS selling site....Dr.Mac will only have them with 400 watter and the lowest ive seen is dual 175W...There are barely any information on 70W when it comes to PAR...I had a friend of a family member, that owns a industrial lighting store...give me spec sheets on the 70W and the new 50W..and they are barely above a HO flo bulb...

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by birdman204

He also owns last mos. TOTM at Rc.com

I know he does but i think it was more because of the novelty aspect (10G SPS w /PC's) than his amazing coloration of corals which I dont see...[/b]

 

 

Originally posted by birdman204

You answered your own affect with that statement. The brown color in corals is caused by an excess of zooxanthelle. When you took off the 70W, the corals kicked up zooxanthelle production to counter effect their being less effective with the light removed, Hence their immediate browning in coloration.

Gilmans tank 32 w pc.

http://www.oc-creative.com/reef/NoteDetail.asp?id=95

 

 

From Eric Borneman's coral coloration faq's:

 

Zooxanthellae can vary in color from golden to dark brown. They multiply in response to a non-polyp abundance of nutrients, specifically nitrogen which is limited by their host. They can also photoacclimate by producing pigments that make them darker or lighter in response to lower or higher light levels, respectively. In general, low light and/or high nutrients will result in a coral becoming darker brown colored as the zooxanthellae multiply and/or photoacclimation.

 

Just to reiterate what you said for the kiddies watching. The problem was that though your statement is correct i was having problems w/ coloration w/ that 70w 4 inches away from my SPS...w/ a calc reactor, 0 across the board, and 35x turnover...i see it like this...i had 8 SPS frags....5 were nowhere near good coloration while three (2 monti's 1 anacropora) were decently retaing color...after the switch to 250W i have 11 and all are THRIVING and Coloring up more and more.....??? IMO its a no-brainer....I feel this low wattage/ small nano tank is equivalent to the 36W PC on a 2G...18W/gallon X)....A coral has needs that need to be met regardless of the proprtionate application of equipment.

[birdman204]

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

I know you love throwin around pics of your little minibow but take in mind not all of the people browsing see that as the mold of a SPS nano.

??? Nice attitude. I was answering Bickmades statement which was an across the board statement which is totally false. I never claimed I had the mold of an SPS nano,(although it makes me proud to think you think I do) although I believe what I have setup is one of the best ways for a beginner to go with an sps tank. All montipora Species, and a 70W halide, this gives you proper spectrum(see below) , strong light, and your need for a chiller is gone, compared to running a 150 or even a 250. This makes it easier for beginner setup

FWIW These 70W lamps have been used in germany for YEARS mainly due to the cost of energy over there.

 

Since none of my statements were directed at you except one, I will re-explain the one that was...

 

Your statement I quoted was a direct answer for your direct affect, your corals turned brown for that reason.

I am glad you can cut and paste borneman. At least it shows you are reading it and learning. I have numerous books of his so I have read all that info and then some.

 

DRZLI feel this low wattage/ small nano tank is equivalent to the 36W PC on a 2G...18W/gallon X)....A coral has needs that need to be met regardless of the proprtionate application of equipment. [/b]

Spectrum, not intensity. Looks like your info is lacking. Do a search, and then refine your lighting arguments.

 

I will not deny that stronger lights = better coloration, but it's more than intensity. I have 4 different tanks all dff lighting schemes, 6,500 - 20K's , 18 W PC to 400W MH. That last one mentioned is at 5 inches over a 12 inch deep 40G. Can you say Cooked! in a good way.

Please don't try to explain coloration to me, I've seen it Brown Montipora Digitata turn More purple than any purple monster... I've seen it.... Green corals turning yellow, yellow corals turning blue. I've seen it. I've seen quite a bit. Brown zoas turn red, grey zoas turn brown. Lighting is a very big part of reefkeeping and it's good to see some people realize the stronger the better, even for so called low light species.

[Dr. Saltwater]

SPS can even be helt under normal Tube Lightning (TL - T8)!!!! If enough used ...

 

The problem is (often) that SPS don't have the nice coloration and will grow very slow, but they surely won't die!

 

PCs give more light per inch than TL, so in my opinion SPS can be helt under PCs only.

 

I know, because we've tested growth/color under different lights

[birdman204]

Being from the netherlands, do you have any more insight into the information regarding 70W lights being more common in Europe?

[DRZL-sauras]

Originally posted by birdman204

I never claimed I had the mold of an SPS nano,(although it makes me proud to think you think I do)

 

Dont flatter yourself, I for one am not impressed.

 

Originally posted by birdman204

All montipora Species, and a 70W halide, this gives you proper spectrum(see below) , strong light, and your need for a chiller is gone, compared to running a 150 or even a 250. This makes it easier for beginner setup.

 

 

Didnt you just say you have a purple moster acro? Now your speaking Monti's..hmm

 

Strong light?:| : ...don't make laugh...Im sorry but put some well placed fans and have an open top and most heat issues will be resolved. Therefore you wont need to sacrifice the sun (your light) for some candle.

 

SPECTRUM? Im not an amateur buddy, I know what it means and how it works. Its funny because you talk about the proper spectrum when you have a BLUE bulb...A BLUE bulb that if you check JB NY thread at RC or just google = PAR results...Is one of the lowest in PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) and CRI (color rendering index) a comparison of how closely a light makes things look the same as sunlight would make them. So not only do you have a weak intensity bulb but weak PAR and CRI to match.

 

 

 

Originally posted by birdman204

FWIW These 70W lamps have been used in germany for YEARS mainly due to the cost of energy over there.

 

Last time I checked I was in NJ. Most of the German Reefers ive met DONT run 70W...might of started there but its not in anway a norm.

 

Originally posted by birdman204

Since none of my statements were directed at you except one, I will re-explain the one that was...

Your statement I quoted was a direct answer for your direct affect, your corals turned brown for that reason.

I am glad you can cut and paste borneman. At least it shows you are reading it and learning. I have numerous books of his so I have read all that info and then some.

 

Wow talk about Insightful (cough cough) Inciteful that was...I keep reading all the time no matter how much i think i know.I dont just think im the man, throw pics of my unaquascaped minibow and start ask me anything threads...Im glaad to see youve reached reef mecca and need no continuous learning.

 

 

Originally posted by birdman204

Spectrum, not intensity. Looks like your info is lacking. Do a search, and then refine your lighting arguments.

 

Both are in play actually, To say just spectrum is important contradicts your 400W on a 40G in your next statement.

 

Originally posted by birdman204

I will not deny that stronger lights = better coloration, but it's more than intensity. I have 4 different tanks all dff lighting schemes, 6,500 - 20K's , 18 W PC to 400W MH. That last one mentioned is at 5 inches over a 12 inch deep 40G. Can you say Cooked! in a good way.

Please don't try to explain coloration to me, I've seen it Brown Montipora Digitata turn More purple than any purple monster... I've seen it.... Green corals turning yellow, yellow corals turning blue. I've seen it. I've seen quite a bit. Brown zoas turn red, grey zoas turn brown. Lighting is a very big part of reefkeeping and it's good to see some people realize the stronger the better, even for so called low light species.

 

If you dont deny stronger lights better coloration then what the heck did we just go into the "battle of wits for?" Someone asked if PCs can be done with SPS and i said it can but MOST likely they will brown out and not even look nice...

 

Damn!... for my analogy lovers out there its like saying, can i feed my purebreed dog table scraps?

 

Yes, But it wont look as nice and be as healthy if it was raised on Eukanuba.

[DRZL-sauras]

Dr. Saltwater...you can say that with everything though. If enough people pushed you could move a ship. build skyscrapers, and make The Apprentice the #1 show in America...

[ryuseiboy]

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

Wow talk about Insightful (cough cough) Inciteful that was...I keep reading all the time no matter how much i think i know.I dont just think im the man, throw pics of my unaquascaped minibow and start ask me anything threads...Im glaad to see youve reached reef mecca and need no continuous learning.

 

wow..............................................................

[birdman204]

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

Dont flatter yourself, I for one am not impressed.

No one asked you to be, and, i was joking when I said I am glad you think so, Your inflection is obviously in disagreement. I however, am impressed though, being it was my first fish tank (no FW either). I think I did a good job mimicing an environment. Deep water, heavy switching current "type" flow, associated with this depth ( and the lighting to go with the depth ). Aside from my newbie mistakes with the yellow polyps, rics, and xenia, I feel completley happy with the tank. In fact, I am putting a larger tank, exact same environment, w/o the newb mistakes in it's place.

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

Didnt you just say you have a purple moster acro? Now your speaking Monti's

No it's in there, tiny frag. Leftover breakage from a trade from a local reefer.

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

Strong light?:| : ...don't make laugh...Im sorry but put some well placed fans and have an open top and most heat issues will be resolved. Therefore you wont need to sacrifice the sun (your light) for some candle.

Right on Mr. Reef L337. Depending on where you live , that may be different. I live somewhere where it gets pretty hot during the summer. Any insights on how to get your tank lower than the room temp of 84 with fans (blowing heated air over the surface) would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time, the 3 fans I DO have will keep my tank at 80 at best.... (p.s. No A.C. in the house)

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

SPECTRUM? Im not an amateur buddy, I know what it means and how it works. Its funny because you talk about the proper spectrum when you have a BLUE bulb...A BLUE bulb that if you check JB NY thread at RC or just google = PAR results...Is one of the lowest in PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) and CRI (color rendering index) a comparison of how closely a light makes things look the same as sunlight would make them. So not only do you have a weak intensity bulb but weak PAR and CRI to match.

Again, going for an environment, if the color temp is right for it.... well.... use it. When you did a search for my name, did you see a tank full of brown corals(and the blue polyped monti doesn't count, the skeleton is tan D|ck Tracy).

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

Last time I checked I was in NJ. Most of the German Reefers ive met DONT run 70W...might of started there but its not in anway a norm.

Cool. I have those other tanks as mentioned. Did you ever think I was trying to lower my electric bill as another added positive side effect?

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

Im glaad to see youve reached reef mecca and need no continuous learning.

Please point to where I said that. I constantly extend my reef library almost monthly. And read everything over and over again, cuz I know I've missed stuff, point to tylernt's 2.5 thread. A year ago I was misinformed , or confused about something. since then, my reading has set me straight. I wish I've reached reef mecca. Then I could hang out with you Mr. 250.

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

Both are in play actually, To say just spectrum is important contradicts your 400W on a 40G in your next statement.

No I figured since that was all you were concerned about, I should put it into terms you understand. Apparently you still didn't cuz you missed the WHOLE point of my post which leads into....

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

If you dont deny stronger lights better coloration then what the heck did we just go into the "battle of wits for?" Someone asked if PCs can be done with SPS and i said it can but MOST likely they will brown out and not even look nice...

Because you claimed it was the fault of the 70W MH, when your evidence shows it happened after the removal of the light, which scientifically would be completley supported, yet you begin to bash both PC's and 70W Halides. I don't see a battle of words. I see someone upset because someone sees a different side of the story. Sorry if I upset you.

Granted there are advantages for every different setup. And yes I do believe the stronger the light the better, so of course I am gonna give my dog the best food. It doesn't mean I wanna great dane and pick up his crap, I'll be happy picking up poodle sized sh|t for this little tank.

70WMH 20K and 32 W PC Act.

 

 

Gilman's 32W PC 50/50

 

 

But I do get the big pooper scooper for my living room display... 2x250 DE 2x48inch act.

 

[Dr. Saltwater]

Originally posted by birdman204

Being from the netherlands, do you have any more insight into the information regarding 70W lights being more common in Europe?

I guess so, what do you want to know?

 

Originally posted by DRZL-sauras

Dr. Saltwater...you can say that with everything though. If enough people pushed you could move a ship. build skyscrapers, and make The Apprentice the #1 show in America...

I must say that you're wright. I also must say that the equipement used on the tanks and the watervalues were exactly the same, only the light was different. Than talk about growth and health of the SPS (Montipora sp., Acropora sp., Stylophora sp. and Seriatophora sp. ):

 

- Under TL ( T8 ) 'blue2 & white3'; SPS didn't grow or grew very slow. The coloration didn't fully come out and some SPS (mostly Acropora sp.) even turned brown.

 

- Under T5 'blue2 & white3' -> lower Watt.; SPS grew and in our sight grew as normal and showed their colors. Only the Stylophora sp. didn't grow good, maybe the wrong spot in the tank ... ?

 

- Under MH (HQI) '20K' -> Lowest Watt.; all SPS grew beautifull just like under the T5 lightning actually. The only problem here was a quicker growth what means they use certain luiquids solved in the water more witch you should add regularly.

 

- Under PC 4x '50/50'-> Lowest Watt; almost all SPS grew normal. The Acropora sp. (the green colored ones) didn't grow very good. I guess we used to little light. But SPS can grow very good under this lightning.

 

Conclusion; when enough (good) light used in the wright type of coloration ('blue & white') most corals will grow -duh-. A combination is better because you could use main-lightning for growth/health and side-lightning for extra coloration (blue). We also saw that if we put an enormous amount of TL above a small tank, the SPS gave the same reaction with the test. So I think TL is only good for side-lightning, if used the wright 'blue'. The other lights are good for coloration, growth and health ... if the watervalues don't change to much ofcourse.

 

That's why I think SPS could be helt under PCs.

[Dr. Saltwater]

PS. Birdman .... the Montipora digitata shown on Gils' pictures above surely don't need as much light as other SPS-corals. You'll find these corals often in tanks with Seahorses, close to the light ofcourse. But they don't have that many requirements as other SPS ... so Montipra digitata isn't a good example in my opinion.

[phergus_25]

i think we all have a opinion on thi subject but just fighting isn't helping the guy that asked the question. I think we all agree that some peope have great results with PC's and SPS. however, this is not the norm normaly they get a little brown or green. so we all agree it's doable but MH is the best. Ok are we done now?

[phergus_25]

i think we all have a opinion on thi subject but just fighting isn't helping the guy that asked the question. I think we all agree that some peope have great results with PC's and SPS. however, this is not the norm normaly they get a little brown or green. So we all agree it's do-able but MH is the best. Ok are we done now?

[Dr. Saltwater]

Totally agree

[Withers]

i think we all have a opinion on thi subject but just fighting isn't helping the guy that asked the question. I think we all agree that some peope have great results with PC's and SPS. however, this is not the norm normaly they get a little brown or green. so we all agree it's doable but MH is the best. Ok are we done now?

 

amen. when it comes down to it, a lot of factors come into play. having a better light (metal halides) will give you a cushion if anything else goes wrong (water parameters, not enough flow, etc), but it CAN be done with just PC's, just usually not by beginners.

 

DRZL-sauras, you seem to be awfully quick to correct everybody elses statements, and belittle other people who you apparently feel are below you. i've never seen your tank, but it must be the holy grail of nano tanks if it comes anywhere close to matching your ego. that's all i'm saying, i'm done even trying to have a discussion with you, it's simply not possible.