Treating ich in a tank with an eel

[Kdsd731]

Hi,  new to the forum here.  I have a 36 gallon bow front that's about 6 months old. I bought this tank as my first saltwater tank and plan on using this as my QT tank when I upgrade to a larger tank. I got my last fish addition a couple months ago. I am running 2 HOB filters (one filter has a protein skimmer built in), two circulation pumps with total tank flow rate of 1,125GPH. No dead spots in tank. No sump. I have about 25lbs of rock so far. I just noticed my royal gramma brush the sand a few times which was a red flag.  I don't see anything on him but I just noticed a bunch of white spots appear on my flame angels tail. They weren't there earlier today even. I don't have a QT tank but am willing to buy one If I have to for this. I need to treat this but the tricky part is I have an eel and condy anemone. How can I treat ich with the eel and condy in the tank? 

 

Live stock in tank: 

12" skeletor eel

Flame angel

Royal Gramma

2 picasso clowns

4" red thorny sea star

Some hermits and snails also

(I know it's stocked heavily, lets focus on the ich treatment) 

 

Water parameters:

78F

7.8pH

0 ammonia

0 nitrite

20ppm nitrate (recently added cobalt total nitrate to try and lower it) 

 

I change the filter cartridges alternately ever 3 weeks. 

I do a 5 gallon water change once a week. 

 

Please help! 

 

FYI, the orange thing in the ble background is a reflection of the fireplace. 

[Clown79]

You can't properly treat ich within the tank.

 

Liverock and sand absorb meds which is known to leach.

 

You also can't treat with inverts in the tank.

 

To properly get rid of ich, the tank has to go fishless for 8 weeks and fish treated in separate hospital tank.

[Kdsd731]

So that would mean I need to have 2 QT tanks? One for the eel/ inverts and one for the fish? 

[luckie1966]

No one Qt. tanks is needed. Leave the main tank alone with the inverts and no fish for a period of time. Turn heat up a little to speed along the pests cycle. Treat ALL the fish in a separate QT tank with proably a copper based treatment. Time is  a ticking and you don't have Long. Sorry forgot the eel, your going to have do some research on what will work on a"scaleless" Fish.

[Snow_Phoenix]

Please don't treat the eel with copper. It'll die. 

 

If you're separating the fish and insist on using copper, you'll need to put the eel in one QT and all the other fish in another QT. Use TTM for the eel to get rid of the Ich. You can use copper for the rest of the fish in the second QT, but try to avoid cross contamination of equipment etc. Whatever it is, make sure no copper leaches into the eel-QT. 

 

Humblefish did a very good write up on treating Ich on NR - I believe it's under the Disease & Pest subsection of the forum. You might want to give it a read.

 

Once again, do *not treat the eel with copper. Eels and scaleless fish like rays and sharks don't fare well with copper. Most of time, you will end up killing them instead of saving them. 

[WV Reefer]

Some great advice given so far but I would like to address your comment about overstocking the tank-- "I know it's stocked heavily, lets focus on the ich treatment" 

 

This statement matters because stressed fish easily become sick fish.....Something for you to think about while treating your fish.  

[Clown79]

Ya you will need 2 qt's.

 

1 for the eel(no copper treatment)

 

1 for the rest of the fish

 

 

The inverts and all else stay in the main tank as it does not get treated. It stays fishless for 8 weeks which kills the parasite in the tank.

 

No fish can be added to that tank before 8 weeks.

[Kdsd731]

Thank you for the input. Is there any sort of treatment that you guys are aware of that can treat an eel and the fish at the same time? Space and money is limited. 

[Kdsd731]

15 minutes ago, WV Reefer said:

Some great advice given so far but I would like to address your comment about overstocking the tank-- "I know it's stocked heavily, lets focus on the ich treatment" 

 

This statement matters because stressed fish easily become sick fish.....Something for you to think about while treating your fish.  

I get it, and correct ne if i'm wrong, but I feel though over stocked, my selection shouldn't cause too much stress. 

The eel hides under a rock,  the gramma hides in a rock and occasionally swims around for short periods,  the angel cruises the whole tank, the clowns stick together in a small section of the tank and the star fish is on the wall.  All you really see when you look at the tank is a flame angel and 2 small clowns.  My main concern with this stocking I would think would be water condition.

[Clown79]

2 minutes ago, Kdsd731 said:

I get it, and correct ne if i'm wrong, but I feel though over stocked, my selection shouldn't cause too much stress. 

The eel hides under a rock,  the gramma hides in a rock and occasionally swims around for short periods,  the angel cruises the whole tank, the clowns stick together in a small section of the tank and the star fish is on the wall.  All you really see when you look at the tank is a flame angel and 2 small clowns.  My main concern with this stocking I would think would be water condition.

Water condition does effect stress levels in fish and the other issue is territory.

 

Flames can become aggressive, clowns definitely become aggressive.

[Kdsd731]

What size QT is recommended for my 4 fish?  And does the eel need to be treated also?  I know they are ich resistant but that leads me to think not ich proof.

[Kdsd731]

I bought a 20g long tank, a bubbler,  fluval 50 (minus the bio media and carbon but added some filter floss from my main tank to help with BB) and took one of my circulation pumps out of my main tank along with a spare 200w heater I had. I filled it with 10 gallons of purchased LFS saltwater and 7.75 gallons of water (wierd a 20 gallon didn't take 4 jugs of water)  from one of their frag tanks.  I then was told I should do a freshwater dip then place them in the QT tank and slowly add the Cupramine to the full dose over the next day to help reduce stress.  Does this sound right?  I still have the eel and inverts in the main tank.  Is there anything I can do with the main tank to help kill the ich without doing a second QT tank?  I'm about tapped out on money and space right now. I still need to add a top tonight too.

[Humblefish]

Best ich/velvet treatment for an eel is Chloroquine phosphate: https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/fish

 

But dosing that into a DT with rock + sand is problematic. Also, most corals/inverts will not tolerate it.

[WV Reefer]

On 1/15/2019 at 7:42 PM, Kdsd731 said:

I bought a 20g long tank, a bubbler,  fluval 50 (minus the bio media and carbon but added some filter floss from my main tank to help with BB) and took one of my circulation pumps out of my main tank along with a spare 200w heater I had. I filled it with 10 gallons of purchased LFS saltwater and 7.75 gallons of water (wierd a 20 gallon didn't take 4 jugs of water)  from one of their frag tanks.  I then was told I should do a freshwater dip then place them in the QT tank and slowly add the Cupramine to the full dose over the next day to help reduce stress.  Does this sound right?  I still have the eel and inverts in the main tank.  Is there anything I can do with the main tank to help kill the ich without doing a second QT tank?  I'm about tapped out on money and space right now. I still need to add a top tonight too.

 

What about using a rubbermaid tub for your second quarantine?

[1891Bro]

47 minutes ago, Kdsd731 said:

and took one of my circulation pumps out of my main tank along with a spare 200w heater I had.

So the qt has ich in it. 

[Kdsd731]

1 hour ago, 1891Bro said:

So the qt has ich in it. 

Doesn't it already since it's on the fish?  And isn't that what I'm killing with the medication? 

[1891Bro]

11 minutes ago, Kdsd731 said:

Doesn't it already on the fish?  And isn't that what I'm killing with the medication? 

Damn. Good point. 

[Kdsd731]

What should I do with the rising ammonia levels i'm already seeing.  I just checked it with the API saltwater kit and I'm at .25! Water changes I'm assuming.  But what do I do differently since i'm medicating with cupramine? And looks like I read API can give false readings with cupramine.  So I should get the seachem multitest ammonia kit.  I guess I'll track down that and see what it says.

[Humblefish]

6 hours ago, Kdsd731 said:

What should I do with the rising ammonia levels i'm already seeing.  I just checked it with the API saltwater kit and I'm at .25! Water changes I'm assuming.  But what do I do differently since i'm medicating with cupramine? And looks like I read API can give false readings with cupramine.  So I should get the seachem multitest ammonia kit.  I guess I'll track down that and see what it says.

Ammonia alert badge: https://www.seachem.com/ammonia-alert.php

 

It works even with medications in the water.

[Kdsd731]

20 minutes ago, Humblefish said:

Ammonia alert badge: https://www.seachem.com/ammonia-alert.php

 

It works even with medications in the water.

Yeah,  I have it in there as an extra precaution.  But I still want a test kit too. But I'm curious if in fact my numbers are high,  what's the best method to lower it while dosing medication. 

[Humblefish]

4 hours ago, Kdsd731 said:

Yeah,  I have it in there as an extra precaution.  But I still want a test kit too. But I'm curious if in fact my numbers are high,  what's the best method to lower it while dosing medication. 

Water changes. You can use an ammonia reducer with most medications, but NOT copper.

[Kdsd731]

2 hours ago, Humblefish said:

Water changes. You can use an ammonia reducer with most medications, but NOT copper.

How do you go about making sure you're doing the right dosage while doing water changes? 

[Tamberav]

1 hour ago, Kdsd731 said:

How do you go about making sure you're doing the right dosage while doing water changes? 

 

Dose the water change water to the correct amount, not the tank. 

 

You need a test kit.

 

[Kdsd731]

8 hours ago, Tamberav said:

 

Dose the water change water to the correct amount, not the tank. 

 

You need a test kit.

 

Ok. Thanks.  I have one. 

[mcarroll]

On 1/15/2019 at 10:21 AM, Kdsd731 said:

I get it, and correct ne if i'm wrong, but I feel though over stocked, my selection shouldn't cause too much stress. 

The eel hides under a rock,  the gramma hides in a rock and occasionally swims around for short periods,  the angel cruises the whole tank, the clowns stick together in a small section of the tank and the star fish is on the wall.  All you really see when you look at the tank is a flame angel and 2 small clowns.  My main concern with this stocking I would think would be water condition.

I don't know your expertise level, but for reference I'd say the tank is a bit overstocked for a beginner.  But I think you're right that it's not the worst combo of fish and tank.

 

But the problem is just as you described it:  The clowns and eel have all the territory and the gramma has the one remaining hideout.

 

Lack of hiding places and territory is probably the main issue for the angelfish. 

 

That may, in turn, be a stress on the Gramma since he waits for "coast is clear" conditions...the Angel is always on the prowl...probably day and night. 

 

It is definitely a good sign that the gramma comes out to patrol sometimes.  If this stops, worry.

 

Have you done any nighttime observing to see what's happening then? 

 

Water quality is another factor, but not one fish are actually very susceptible to.  Normal variations in pH, salinity, nutrients, and other conventional aspects of water quality, for example.  Adequate aeration is one of the main requirements, one easily met under reef-like conditions...especially if you use a protein skimmer.   Still one to be very aware of.  Sustainable Aquatics has a white paper on fish acclimation (word doc) that speaks to this.