Help. At a loss.

[D Z]

Defintely leave the carbon. How does the purigen look? Still pretty bright white or starting to look dull or brownish?

[Got Corals]

Don't do too many drastic changes...

 

I would take out the purigen but leave the carbon.. I once had this issue and someone had dropped a penny in my tank.. Take a look around make sure nothing alien is in there..

 

Good luck, be patient don't give up!! document the daily changes for better or for worse..

 

We are here to help!

 

Sandy

[Austintylerl]

update, SG 1.25 no ammonia, nitrite or nitrates. PH is 8.0, just got an ALK test delivered, salifert says KH 10.2 and ALK at 3.65.

 

Any suggestions? to raise or lower alk?

I am ordering a phosphate test as I am getting a lot of algae and some cyano looking stuff.

Thank you

[Mariaface]

The only reason you should touch alk is if it suddenly skyrocketed or plummeted, or if you're (slowly and carefully) dosing to bring it up over the course of a week because your corals have been using it up. If that's what alk mixes to and stays at in your tank, that's it. Do you have mag/calcium? The three of them play an important balancing game.

 

 

If your parameters look normal, consider the chemical warfare and low nutrient level ideas. Some softies can be aggressive and release toxins when upset (or if you look at them the wrong way). It can be water related, or it could just be proximity to another kind of coral. If you're not feeding enough for your light level, corals can shrink/bleach in response.

[Austintylerl]

Thank you Mariaface. I dont have mag but I tested CA which is about 470. The kenya tree shed a layer of slime and sometimes looks better but is often balled up tight. The xenia is still pulsing but is so tiny now. Getting a lot of film algae and what I believe is some cyano.

 

I havent fed anything because I believe the goby and pistol are dead. I cant look for them because they are under a rock that is stuck in its place thanks to GSP growth.

 

Expecting a phosphate test in the mail tomorrow.

 

Any insights much appreciated!

[Austintylerl]

.....not sure if this means anything to anyone but this afternoon there are many bubbles coming from the sand that sit there at the sands surface. Not sure if its relevant, I know its a sign of the nitrogen cycle but this tank has been set up two years and I have never witnessed it.

 

the pistol is alive though, silver lining.

[Mariaface]

.....not sure if this means anything to anyone but this afternoon there are many bubbles coming from the sand that sit there at the sands surface. Not sure if its relevant, I know its a sign of the nitrogen cycle but this tank has been set up two years and I have never witnessed it.

 

the pistol is alive though, silver lining.

 

 

Are the bubbles sitting on the sand on their own, or are they trapped in snotty dinoflagellate-type stuff? Have you tested phosphate? You may want to outcompete cyano/dinos with a bacterial supplement, and vacuum a portion of your sand with each water change to remove decomposing matter that could be trapped there.

 

If the bubbles are coming up through the sand and floating up to the surface, it's possible you have some anaerobic pockets that are turning nitrate into nitrogen gas very quickly, which is nice? This happened to my NC28 when I had oolitic sand at 3".

[Austintylerl]

They are there on their own. phos test coming today I believe

 

Thanks!

[Mariaface]

They are there on their own. phos test coming today I believe

 

Thanks!

 

 

You could also have pockets of hydrogen sulfide, which is fine if it stays under the sandbed but pretty toxic for tank inhabitants when it gets into the water column. Keep filtering, and make sure detritus isn't building up in the sandbed.

[Austintylerl]

When you say keep filtering what does that mean.

I have never siphoned the sand but sometimes agitate the surface of the substrate. I plan to do a water change, should I rough up the sand so to speak?

[Mariaface]

When you say keep filtering what does that mean.

I have never siphoned the sand but sometimes agitate the surface of the substrate. I plan to do a water change, should I rough up the sand so to speak?

 

 

Mechanical, chemical filtration. Filter floss, activated carbon, phosphate remover if needed.

 

Don't 'rough up the sand'; this'll just release whatever's in it into the water column. If you have a gravel vacuum that leads into a siphon tube out of the tank, hold the vacuum portion above the sand and pinch the tube enough to get the sand to float up and down, while decomposing matter goes down the tube. You can probably go on youtube and look up examples. Just aim for a small portion of the sandbed each time you do a water change, so you're not releasing everything into the water at once.

 

When you've gotten through the entire sandbed, you can start vacuuming larger chunks each time.

[metrokat]

Try feeding coral food - target feed the corals that are open to see if they grab the food and look better the next day.

[Austintylerl]

Did a 2.5 gallon WC yesterday and sucked some cyano out but today there is more cyano! I put it fluval Carbon, but heard it can leak phosphates, what the....

About to test tank water and supposed rodi I got from lfs

 

Sad face

[Austintylerl]

...according API I have great water and no phosphates. Is API WORTHLESS?

[Mariaface]

Yes, it generally is. But cyano will use up phosphate as it's available, so you may get a low reading. Try outcompeting the cyano with beneficial bacteria?

[Austintylerl]

I have a liter of seachem matrix along with about 5-6 pounds of live rock in the 8 gallon aquarium. What do you guys think of Red Seas test kits?

 

Thank you again Maria

[Mariaface]

I have a liter of seachem matrix along with about 5-6 pounds of live rock in the 8 gallon aquarium. What do you guys think of Red Seas test kits?

 

Thank you again Maria

 

 

Red Sea is good stuff, Salifert is good stuff.

 

With those ingredients, I'd put a small fistful of matrix in a media bag (after mechanical filtration, though), and purposely dose with a bacterial supplement so that it populates quickly and thoroughly.

[Austintylerl]

ok, I'll grab the red sea. The matrix has been in there for over a year. I opted to dump the full bottle in the bag in the "sump" next to some live rock. For mechanical I use the factory sponge, how do you feel about sponges? I feel like it might be hard to clean well.

[Mariaface]

Jesus, the full thing?

 

Replace the sponges with filter floss that you'll discard and replace at least once a week.

 

And feed. Everything. If you've got enough matrix in there to keep nitrate at 0, your water's going to be super low in nutrients. You'll still need carbon for the chemical warfare, but you need to make sure you're feeding everything enough to grow. The nutrients for upkeep have to some from somewhere, and if not the water then it's got to be the food. Light alone will just bleach them if they can't keep up with it.

[Austintylerl]

Thank you so much for your help! I appreciate it very much but I must ask for one more thing. When you say nutrients, is that coral food specifically or leftovers from the fish food?

[Mariaface]

Nutrients will be anything that can be used to nourish the corals. The corals can eat whatever is small enough to fit in their mouths, but they can also take up some nutrients via the skin. Phosphate and nitrate are important ones. You don't want too much (some imbalance could spark algae growth), but you want a consistent, low level. Some people aim for 0.05ppm phosphate, 1-5ppm nitrate.

 

Some people don't feed their corals at all, and allow densely stocked fish to 'feed' the corals. Some people feed with a shovel (see: MetroKat) and export frantically (which purigen, carbon, and matrix will certainly do if kept up well). I am trying to starve out hydroids, so I'm feeding the LPS and fish, and adding amino acids via Brightwell's Restor, AcroPower, and Seachem's Reef Plus. So far, smaller mouthed-corals have been trucking along pretty well.

[Austintylerl]

update: I did another 2 gallon water change, tested the ro di that i mixed with brightwells salt mix after 24 hours mixing time and tested no phosphates. I siphoned cyano out and scrubbed with a tooth brush the algae on rocks and removed it. The day after there was more algae/cyano! I also removed the supposed phosphate leaking carbon from fluval and replaced it with chemipure blue. And removed the sponge in the "sump" and replaced it with filter floss. Finally I removed most of the seachem matrix that ive had in there for a year or so. I also added two small hermits and two snails to help out.

 

The xenia is still there, hasn't disappeared and wilted away, just super shrunk but still pulsing. The colt or kenya tree is still there but bundled tight but is still shedding.

 

 

Can someone advise in simple terms for a simpleton, is if my water is nutirient poor(no nitrate) how does this algae and or cyano thrive? I know that algae is supposed to consume these nitrates to fool? the tests to show no nitrates but that doesn't make sense to me, how can that be? If my corals want nutrients, do I still want to do water changes weekly if there are no reported issues in my water tests? Isnt that removing nutrients? And to clarify, what are nutrients, waste matter? or iodine, calcium, mag etc that I bring in from water changes? so confused now.

 

Thank you for your patience and expertise

 

Austin

[Nano sapiens]

Can someone advise in simple terms for a simpleton, is if my water is nutirient poor(no nitrate) how does this algae and or cyano thrive? I know that algae is supposed to consume these nitrates to fool? the tests to show no nitrates but that doesn't make sense to me, how can that be? If my corals want nutrients, do I still want to do water changes weekly if there are no reported issues in my water tests? Isnt that removing nutrients? And to clarify, what are nutrients, waste matter? or iodine, calcium, mag etc that I bring in from water changes? so confused now.

 

Thank you for your patience and expertise

 

Austin

 

Can't really get around the fact that these systems are complex, but I'll try.

 

'Nutrients' can either be 'inorganic' or 'organic'. Phosphate, for example, occurs in both inorganic ('PO4') and organic forms. We can only test for inorganic nutrients with our test kits. Very simplified, algae primarily absorb inorganic nutrients (ammonia, nitrate, inorganic phosphate), corals and other organisms primarily/preferentially consume organic nutrients (some phytoplankton, zooplankton, bacterioplankton, etc.,). Corals can also absorb inorganic nutrients because they are 'mixotrophic' (multiple feeding modes). The coral's zooxanthellae utilize some of these inorganic nutrients since they are dinoflagellates ('algae') and their metabolic waste products supply the coral with glucose, glycerol and amino acids.

 

So, if someone says that they have very low phosphate, is that really true? If you have growing algae in the tank, then you have inorganic phosphate being absorbed/utilized and because of this your test kit can read '0' from the water sample. Very low nitrate readings are typically seen when the nitrogen cycle can complete to the end stage of nitrogen gas (which vents into the air) and the tank is not fed beyond the limits of the bacteria to complete the cycle. Algae, coral and other organisms will also utilize nitrate, but preferentially use ammonia first since there is less metabolic cost to the organism to use it.

 

In a practical sense how does this all apply? Firstly, every reef tank that provides an environment suitable for coral potentially provides an environment suitable for algae. Best way to have no algae is not to introduce it in the first place, but this is well nigh impossible. Next best is to eradicate the algae in the system, which can also be nearly impossible in a large system, but possible in really small systems. Most of us use the 'control' method whereby we manually remove and/or employ herbivors to keep algae in check. Obviously, increasing nutrients will further stimulate algae growth, so we try to keep the water relatively 'nutrient poor' primarily for this reason.

 

The takeaway is that corals should have regular access to organic nutrients (feeding, fish waste) to provide them with nutrients and other substances they need for color, growth and basic life processes and the water should be kept 'clean' via some form (or forms) of nutrient export (water changes, mechanical filtration, siphoning of detitus, skimming, various absorption media like GAC, GFO, Polyfilters, etc.). It's basically a continuous balancing act to obtain the optimal levels of 'nutrients in' and 'waste out'.

 

Hope that helps

[Mariaface]

 

 

Hope that helps

 

 

I just learned so much.

 

I gotta start feeding often again.

[Austintylerl]

WOW Nano Sapiens, huge knowledge bomb dropped! Thank you!

 

If I understand, yes I need to continue to do routine water changes, but to keep my softies happy I still need to feed the corals. Right?

 

Thank you and Mariaface!!!