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Steve973

I am having great luck with battling dinoflagellates this time

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Steve973

I started using Fauna Marin Dino X (It used to be called Ultra Algea X and, yes, that is how they spelled "algae") and the results are good. The product advertisements make you think that it will eliminate the plague algae instantaneously, but that is not my experience. The removal is slow and steady, and you may have to dose more aggressively than they recommend. (But proceed at your own risk. It is entirely possible that the recommended dosage will work well, and might possibly take longer. There are many types of dinoflagellates, so maybe this dosage isn't a one-size-fits all situation.) For example, the directions indicate that my tank would require 3ml at the end of the daily photoperiod. I have seen better results bumping that up to 4ml and the end of the photoperiod and sometimes again when I wake up, before the lights come on. This is working FAR better than peroxide for me, or any other method that I have tried. Although with the increased dosage, it's probably best to maintain frequent and possibly large-volume water changes, since we don't know exactly what is in this stuff, and at what concentrations it becomes bad for inhabitants.

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CJJon

This thread is worthless without pics...just sayin. ;)

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Steve973

This thread is worthless without pics...just sayin. ;)

Oh, well. You get what you pay for. Just like the value of opinion-based responses to a post... Oh well.

 

I didn't have a huge outbreak in this incarnation of my tank. I tore my tank down, thinking that I could eliminate them by cleaning the tank, and getting new dry rock and new sand. But bringing my fish back over and some h2o2-treated inhabitants brought it back. I had a *very* minor infestation that I could control (but not eliminate) via other methods. The dino x is the only thing that really seems to be working.

 

For a large infestation with the nastiness all over the rocks, snotty and with bubbles, the impact might be more dramatic, or it might simply take longer. I can only relate the experience that I am having in the hope that somebody else will have yet another tool or option to choose from in the long and difficult fight.

 

So it seems like there is some value in that after all.

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hwk7072

Maybe they should have called it Dino-mite. sorry


Yeah, right now with my battle with dino-sores (sorry again), I'll take a verbal testimonial. I'll take it in Morse code, semaphore, or smoke signals. Just let me know what works.

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Steve973

Besides peroxide, it is the least-expensive method I've tried, and the most effective. It may or may not work for you. It absolutely cannot hurt in conjunction with other methods. If I had tried this before i tore my tank down, I would have siphoned as much out as possible, performed a 3-day blackout with peroxide on the 3rd day, removed all filter media, and changed a good portion of the water, and then dosed this stuff. I wish I would have tried it before I tore the tank down, and then I would have had pictures to show and appease some of the crankier of viewers.

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hwk7072

I can't find a distributor in the U.S. - anyone know? BRS carries Algae-X, and I wrote to them about it. In my search for "fauna marin dino-x u.s. distributor" this picture of an unknown dino is all I got. I don't think it will fit in my tank, or if they would even part with it.

post-86134-0-58287600-1434475873_thumb.jpg

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Steve973

I can't find a distributor in the U.S. - anyone know? BRS carries Algae-X, and I wrote to them about it. In my search for "fauna marin dino-x u.s. distributor" this picture of an unknown dino is all I got. I don't think it will fit in my tank, or if they would even part with it.

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That is the same product. It has been renamed. When you order that, you'll receive Dino X. I only know this because that's what I ordered.

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hwk7072

BRS wrote back and said that what they have in stock is Dino-X, they just haven't changed the web page.

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Steve973

If you get some of it, please let me know your experience with it. It's quite likely that your dinoflagellates are different than mine, and it would be interesting to hear how the stuff responds differently to the treatment.

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hwk7072

They seem to have morphed. Before I did a full sand and rock clean and water change, they were the bubbly stalactites. Now I don't have the bubbles, but waves of copper colored threads. From the Fauna Marin site, it sounds like this is they type it attacks.

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hwk7072

Both, that is

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hwk7072

First dose today. I'll post updates. As I mentioned in the peroxide thread, it morphed from the bubbly stalactites to this filamentsous copper-colored hair algae after a near tear down and dosing with Microbacter7.

 

Here is the state of the tank day one

 

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Steve973

First dose today.

How have things been going? I believe mine are completely gone. I have had a normal light cycle for a while now, and I turned up the whites channel on my nano box duo, and I continue to have no signs of it.

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hwk7072

Hey Steve973, I was just going to post today. GREAT to hear that yours is apparently gone.

 

Day 1: Dosed in evening

Day 2: Noticeable decrease, flatter, not as long and filamentous

Day 3: Started coming back, longer filaments. Dosed after lights out.

Day 4 (today): Huge difference, mostly gone. Have one AI Prime on 100% at 20k. White sand again! Did a 15% water change and siphoned the sand.

 

I'll continue the dosing every couple days, maybe three more doses, and keep you posted

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hwk7072

I found a video of my original, most certainly dino infestation. The second video is today, day 4 of dosing Dino-X.

 

This video was taken on June 8. See the post with video above for a video of Day 1 of treatment. Pestilence and desolation.

 

 

Today, Day 4 of Dino-X (the tank looks awful as most corals are up on frag racks or in a hospital tank). Notice at the end that I'm starting to get a few little patches of it on the sand. So it's 3 steps forward and one step back.

 

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brandon429

I read this as positive. They get seated and these rebounds of lesser mass I think are a great indicator of colonial stress on them

 

I wouldn't even increase the course, I'd hold bay and just siphon remove those portions, let it cook as is for a bit, nice attack so far.

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Steve973

That is an awesome recovery. It will be interesting to see more accounts of people's use of this stuff, and what kind of results that they get. The only adverse effect that I have seen, and I have no idea if it is related, but I have two colonies of zoanthids that haven't opened up for quite a while. I am hoping that changes as things stabilize. Maybe they didn't like my increased dosage.

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hwk7072

I would say that the dino is gone after four doses. But as JedimasterBen noted in another thread, it may have had some effect on some of the coral. Zoas, euphyllia, GSP, and ricordea aren't opening up as much. But it looks like they are wanting to, so hopefully short term. Acans and xenia doing great. However, I also have new lighting on the tank and increased flow. So it's hard to isolate the cause at this point.

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hwk7072

I got a positive ID that these are dinoflagellates. Pretty cool, eh? You can see the little flagellates all around each. Not sure what the bean shaped thing is. One of his grad students is still going to sample the DNA to determine the strain, hope to have that soon.

 

 

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hwk7072

I started using Fauna Marin Dino X (It used to be called Ultra Algea X and, yes, that is how they spelled "algae") and the results are good.

 

How is your tank at this point?

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Steve973

How is your tank at this point?

It remains completely dino-free, even with a full (and fully-bright) photoperiod. No bubbles whatsoever accumulate on the rocks during the day, the water is crystal clear, and there is no dino odor, either. How is yours?

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Cencalfishguy56

 

How is your tank at this point?

The rod shaped organism could be bacteria of some sort

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hwk7072

Three days ago I would have said it was gone (I guess I did), but it's coming back pretty aggressively. I did four total doses of Dino-X. When I stopped there were a few small patches on the sand, but not hairy, just a slight coloration. I thought they must be on their way out from the residual ammonium compound in the Dino-X. Seems I should have kept going. I am going to start again and not discontinue until one or two doses after it is visibly gone. The instructions state up to 21 doses, which is 42 days.

 

I'll soon be setting up a new tank, should be cycled in about a month or so, and I was hoping to transfer some of what I have, especially my acan-encrusted rock. But I would be skittish about doing that if I'm transferring dinos, at least this nuisance strain. From my reading and other other posters like JediMasterBen, zooxanthellae are a type of dinoflagellate.

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brandon429

But they are housed in protective layers, these guys aren't. Not a direct comparison imo, the coral is insulator

 

 

 

Its amazing to consider hidden variables that make dino treatments work and not work across tanks

 

We'd be bored without such a challenger heh

 

I wonder what the next w be after someone figures out true dino cures

 

Having accurate feedback and 6 mo+ follow up from people trying all methods is the most critical aspect of the battle imo, from joe and Judy public.

 

 

 

Remember reading how anecdotal forum findings hold no science, its messy and subjective, that peer reviewed work is the only legit reading? No

 

Patterns can be picked from distracting aspects of forum posts over enough years

 

Patterns that bring about change in places where formal documentation is lacking, where no permission was given for action X

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im not calling out Ben, his stance is against making snake oil claims for tank work and thats a required counterbalance for web posts. My remark is more of humility where battling dinos has wildly variable outcomes even in a world where many seem to have such control over captive reef tanks. A humbler always exists it seems

 

There are undoubted dino cures stated online littered among those who did 5x effort and gt nothing, right now in this day and age, the art of being able to discover link and stand behind a peer reviewed link on battling dinos looks shabby. Continue making good science peeps as you forge through a new trail. I still think this dino x holds strong potential, at least you all have added to options

 

 

Ps

 

Someone with a challenging setup should consider the art of double dosing, be a mad scientist. Pick two dino treatment options and run them simulaneously in a test tank holding no coral but perhaps a mega ugly strain of dinos

 

Some of these ultra strong types need to be picked off, put in a test tank, boosted with a little po4 planted tank macro fert, some low k metal halide lighting, a maximization of things dinos like, some nice warm 83 degree temps, then hit in an ideal state with various strengths and mixes of direct cell attacks and document that. I'd prefer to see that read over anything formal ever published on dinoflagellates. Get a second and fifth poster doing the same thing nine states or a world away and comparing results? Priceless

 

 

It seems to me we are leaving out the classic 'reverse everything' test mode

 

Instead of collecting results solely off thousands of tanks watching every param in an effort to beat dinos, a few resourcefuls need to set up dino magnifying tanks catering only to making the colonies as strong as possible so that when something works, it stands the heck out. Source out the seeds of the worst strains from those few threads who have verified IDs of their strains from rare access to DNA or microscope verified kinds and farm them in power test tanks w live sand and rocks

 

It should be known that in forums where algal turf scrubbers are promoted, having dinos is stated as totally optional and so easily fixed. Why has nobody here simply made an ats out of old dinner trays and stopped the madness? giant ATS threads almost universally never self report failures across every know reef invader, so it seems to me the snake oil challenge still pertains to things that aren't oil based, or dosers.

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khuzdul

FWIW, the Fauna Marin Algae X instruction sheet has slightly more detailed instruction than the bottle. It says:

  • Dose in the evening after the lights are out, the photosynthestics of the algae will not work during the night so the Algea X will better work

  • 5 ml Algea X of 100L / 26 gal. water every 2 days

    In very severe infestations and good skimming, you can dose up to 6 ml / 100 liters DO NOT OVERDOSE AND CALCULATE THE LITRES OR GALLONS EXACTLY!!!!

  • Dose every 2 days until the algae has gone but not more than 21 days at a time Usually dinoflagellates with 10, other algae approx. with 15 dosing cycles removed

  • Lighting interval max 6 hours/day Blue light can be on for 10 hours/day

  • Make sure you heavily skim!

  • No water change or dosing of any Trace Elements during treatment

  • No Ozone, Carbon, Zeolith or Absorber during treatment

  • Remove denitrification filters or trickle filters during the treatment

  • Calcium-Reactors and the Balling-Method can be use during the treatment.

  • 2 Days after usage of Algea X you can restart all your systems and do the first water change

  • It is helpful to filter with activated carbon after the treatment

So 4 doses, even if the Dino is visibly gone, is probably not enough.

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