DurocShark Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 I love having an Apex on there. I can screw with the lights, the pumps, whatever. Freaks my wife out. :giggle: OK, back to serious... I'm thinking the problem with the LPS/SPS corals failing in that tank is more than lights. My 10 head duncan has been closed up for a month. Today as a last ditch effort, I grabbed it and brought it to work to put in the pico. It's already started opening up. Just a few hours in this tank and it's opening up... There's gotta be something else going on with the 70. Link to comment
Benny314 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Have you checked phosphates lately? How do the other parameters line up to the office pico? Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Nitrates nearly undetectable with Red Sea test, phos really low. I forget the numbers. I wanna say .02 on my Hanna. That's the 70. My pico is undetectable for both, but I have lots of caulerpa in there. In fact, I just harvested a big handful. I'm going to bring my pagoda cup coral in tomorrow. The polyps have been retracted and the mat bleached since I put it in the 70, but the polyps are still in there and alive. So I figure it's worth a shot. Link to comment
Benny314 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Odd, temperature difference? I take it things like the Duncan were unhappy before you changed the lights? My only other thought is with it being a deep tank the LEDs may not be punching through the same way the halide did, could also be the sudden shift in spectrum going from halide to LED? But that's only a possible answer if the problems started when you changed lights. Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Aside from nutrient levels (I feed the fish in the 70 pretty heavily), the only other differences are light and temperature. The 70 had a big arse MH/T5 light until last weekend when I replaced it with a 120w LED box. The bigger tank gets up to 81* or so in the afternoons, while the one in the office rarely gets over 77*. Otherwise, both get water changes at about the same rate, using the same exact water, and both are kept at 1.026 via an ATO on the big tank, and a DSTO (DurocShark Top Off) on the little one (RO/DI water added every morning when I get to work.) The light and/or temp are the most likely culprits. But I kinda wonder if there isn't some contamination in the big tank as well, that only harm calcifying corals. My softies all do fine, as do the fish and inverts. Even my nem is happy. I totally lost my SPS's, and my LPSs are all shriveled. Even my hammer looks sad and sickly. But I don't want to put the hammer in the pico. That sweeper tentacle is brutal. Actually, it's 90* at my house right now, and Apex says the water is 78.9*. So without the big MH/T5, the temps are far more stable. Nice. The MH was a 250w. I'm wondering if it was just too strong. A few days ago I posted the PAR readings. At the sand bed I was still getting 160 PAR. Over a thousand at the water surface. That's why I went to the LEDs, hoping to save those corals. Link to comment
Benny314 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Ahhhh right, yeah give it a few more days for the corals to settle into the LEDs then. As you've said it's likely the halide was just toasting everything with both heat and PAR. Your doing well keeping your tank that cool, water normally sits a little above room temp. Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Magic of evaporative cooling! (aka: Fans) I have the Apex turning the fans on at 78*. LOL! Link to comment
Benny314 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Figured you must have had something running lol. Link to comment
Orangutran Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Klein's Butterfly. :)Were you watching me replace the flex pipe with pvc, and futzing around trying to make a durso work in the overflow? Your butterfly was fun to watch! So active! I'm looking to get a dwarf angel just for the same type of movement... Yeah man, saw you on the cam, do you always work on the tank naked?!! Lol Nah, I only watched it for 5 mins at work... It still might be up on my work computer... There should be a thread with everyone's live cam link!! *hint hint Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 I've started one. I was pretty much the only person with a web cam who posted it. Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 WOOT! Got rid of the flushing with the Sicce 800GPH pump at full speed! The PVC downpipe from the overflow was a smidge too long and there was a kink in the flex line, causing a low spot. DOH! I shortened the PVC and fired it up and away it goes! Next is to revisit putting a Durso in there to quiet it down... Link to comment
Orangutran Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I've started one. I was pretty much the only person with a web cam who posted it. what! where is this thread? Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/361315-share-your-webcams/ Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Figured you must have had something running lol. I should have knocked on wood. Shortly after posting about my fans in this thread, they failed. I was watching the temps climb and saw the fans were just twitching, not spinning. The 12v 1a wall wart was too hot to touch. I found a matching 12v power supply, but bigger and rated to 5 amps. The fans spin faster now than they ever have. In fact the bearings are kinda noisy now. I'm thinking that crappy wall wart wasn't putting out 12v at all and so they were spinning slower than they should. I bought it on ebay (item 141362234105 if you want to see it). It's the one with a bunch of small muffin fans that clips on the edge of the tank. Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I should have knocked on wood. Shortly after posting about my fans in this thread, they failed. I was watching the temps climb and saw the fans were just twitching, not spinning. The 12v 1a wall wart was too hot to touch. I found a matching 12v power supply, but bigger and rated to 5 amps. The fans spin faster now than they ever have. In fact the bearings are kinda noisy now. I'm thinking that crappy wall wart wasn't putting out 12v at all and so they were spinning slower than they should. I bought it on ebay (item 141362234105 if you want to see it). It's the one with a bunch of small muffin fans that clips on the edge of the tank. Do you happen to have pictures of it installed on the tank? I've been considering a fan to take my tank from an average of 81 to 78. Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Here you go: The clips don't quite fit the huge frame on my 70. They'll fit most other tank rims though. There's set screws in them for thinner mounting points. Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Playing with a barrier filter on my video camera: Link to comment
JavaJacketOC Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Looking good! How's the skimmer working? I'm considering one for my tank but haven't been able to bite the bullet. Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 That skimmer works great. Put it in a separate chamber from the return pump and you'll love it. I have 2 issues though: Micro Bubbles: I can't seem to dial out the micro bubbles. Support: None. I've emailed them through their website and never received a response. Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 The Lighting Saga The lighting on this tank has gone through several iterations now. So I thought I'd discuss them here, since I swapped the lights again yesterday... Planned: When planning the tank, I had ordered a 36" Orbit Marine LED strip (not the PRO...) Once in hand, I realized that the light just didn't have enough punch to reach the bottom of the 30" deep tank. So that got set aside. The Punch: Then I bought an Odyssea ADV Plus 30" fixture. This one has a 250w MH and four 24w T5 Actinics. Now we're talking! Because of the narrow front to back of my tank (only 15") I had to tweak the legs a little to get them to fit the tank. Man, that's bright. When I moved the very healthy corals (SPS, LPS, and softies) from my 9 gallon tank to this 70, they promptly bleached, even with the MH only being on 2 hours a day. I thought maybe the crappy MH bulb it came with, that was a little yellow to my eyes, was the culprit. So I replaced it with a better one listed as 20,000K. I ran that for a while, but only saw recovery in the softies. My SPS were dead by this point, but the LPS weren't recovering. Here, I decided to do a test. I moved my 10 head duncan to the pico tank on my desk at work. In the 70 the polyps were completely retracted into the skeleton with zero extension. But in the pico they opened up almost immediately. The nutrients in the 70 were slightly higher (5-10 nitrates, .05 phos, compared to undetectable in the pico). In fact, the levels in the 70 should have encouraged growth, I would think. Not the sterile conditions in the pico. So at this point I was convinced the light was just too intense in that 70. I played with raising the light off the tank to reduce the burn. But even lifting it just 2 inches caused an unacceptable amount of light spill. Hooding wasn't an option due to the fact that I only run central air on the hottest days and don't want a chiller. My fans wouldn't work well in a hooded tank. So... Cheap and Cheerful Chinese LED Fixture #1: I ordered a cheap LED fixture with 90 degree optics off eBay. 165w of 3w LEDs (running somewhat lower) may work, I thought. (THIS one if you're curious.) The coverage of the tank kinda sucked, but I saw my hammer coral start to extend slowly. Very slowly. The softies are MUCH happier now, really extending. My pagoda cup coral stayed a bleached pink color instead of its usual green, and the polyps are staying retracted. So I'm thinking this is it. I'll just stick with this and write the cup coral off as a loss. At this point I bought another tank. A 17g Mr Aqua rimless. So I was going to need a new light for that one. The cheap LED fixture would be perfect. I was about to buy another one when I found... Cheap and Cheerful Chinese LED Fixture #2: Amazon had a 300w fixture in the same housing. 5w LEDs with 90 degree optics and 3 cooling fans. THIS one if you're curious. Obviously I had to dial it down since it's only 2 inches off the water. But keeping it at about the same output as the lower power one should increase its life. The interesting thing is that the different output patterns and such of this new one triggered the cup coral to start coloring up again. Within 2 hours I was seeing green in the cup's "skin" (mat? What do you call that?) There was no immediate change to anything else, but I didn't expect any change. So... WOOT! I still dislike the "godbeam" effect I'm getting from the narrow optics. With the increased power I might be able to swap the optics out to fill more of the tank, without losing the penetration to the bottom. So that's my next step... Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 The Lighting Saga The lighting on this tank has gone through several iterations now. So I thought I'd discuss them here, since I swapped the lights again yesterday... Planned: When planning the tank, I had ordered a 36" Orbit Marine LED strip (not the PRO...) Once in hand, I realized that the light just didn't have enough punch to reach the bottom of the 30" deep tank. So that got set aside. The Punch: Then I bought an Odyssea ADV Plus 30" fixture. This one has a 250w MH and four 24w T5 Actinics. Now we're talking! Because of the narrow front to back of my tank (only 15") I had to tweak the legs a little to get them to fit the tank. Man, that's bright. When I moved the very healthy corals (SPS, LPS, and softies) from my 9 gallon tank to this 70, they promptly bleached, even with the MH only being on 2 hours a day. I thought maybe the crappy MH bulb it came with, that was a little yellow to my eyes, was the culprit. So I replaced it with a better one listed as 20,000K. I ran that for a while, but only saw recovery in the softies. My SPS were dead by this point, but the LPS weren't recovering. Here, I decided to do a test. I moved my 10 head duncan to the pico tank on my desk at work. In the 70 the polyps were completely retracted into the skeleton with zero extension. But in the pico they opened up almost immediately. The nutrients in the 70 were slightly higher (5-10 nitrates, .05 phos, compared to undetectable in the pico). In fact, the levels in the 70 should have encouraged growth, I would think. Not the sterile conditions in the pico. So at this point I was convinced the light was just too intense in that 70. I played with raising the light off the tank to reduce the burn. But even lifting it just 2 inches caused an unacceptable amount of light spill. Hooding wasn't an option due to the fact that I only run central air on the hottest days and don't want a chiller. My fans wouldn't work well in a hooded tank. So... Cheap and Cheerful Chinese LED Fixture #1: I ordered a cheap LED fixture with 90 degree optics off eBay. 165w of 3w LEDs (running somewhat lower) may work, I thought. (THIS one if you're curious.) The coverage of the tank kinda sucked, but I saw my hammer coral start to extend slowly. Very slowly. The softies are MUCH happier now, really extending. My pagoda cup coral stayed a bleached pink color instead of its usual green, and the polyps are staying retracted. So I'm thinking this is it. I'll just stick with this and write the cup coral off as a loss. At this point I bought another tank. A 17g Mr Aqua rimless. So I was going to need a new light for that one. The cheap LED fixture would be perfect. I was about to buy another one when I found... Cheap and Cheerful Chinese LED Fixture #2: Amazon had a 300w fixture in the same housing. 5w LEDs with 90 degree optics and 3 cooling fans. THIS one if you're curious. Obviously I had to dial it down since it's only 2 inches off the water. But keeping it at about the same output as the lower power one should increase its life. The interesting thing is that the different output patterns and such of this new one triggered the cup coral to start coloring up again. Within 2 hours I was seeing green in the cup's "skin" (mat? What do you call that?) There was no immediate change to anything else, but I didn't expect any change. So... WOOT! I still dislike the "godbeam" effect I'm getting from the narrow optics. With the increased power I might be able to swap the optics out to fill more of the tank, without losing the penetration to the bottom. So that's my next step... So the fixture was blasting the coral into recession? Glad you caught that! How about retrofitting the LEDs where the MH is and keeping the T5s? That sounds sweet! Or just sit back and watch things grow. I had great growth with a black box LED fixture Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 The opening for the MH is too small for the fixtures I have. I'd have to buy something else. Not worth it. I have no problems with LEDs. I got great growth with my Ecoxotic strips in the 9 gallon. I just pinged the seller on Amazon to see if they will sell me 120 degree optics. We'll see.... Link to comment
JavaJacketOC Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 That skimmer works great. Put it in a separate chamber from the return pump and you'll love it. I have 2 issues though: Micro Bubbles: I can't seem to dial out the micro bubbles. Support: None. I've emailed them through their website and never received a response. That's disappointing...I do have separate chambers but there is no intense baffling so I don't know if micro bubbles would be taken care of...might just need to try using a foam sleeve on the output. I think the only reason I was considering this over the SCA 301 was the name and expected better support if needed....but if that's not happening I might as well save 50.00 and just get the SCA. Link to comment
DurocShark Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yeap. My 3.5 is a great skimmer, but I need some help getting rid of the micro bubbles and they aren't offering me any assistance. Link to comment
Benny314 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Skimmer. Put a filter sock or sponge on the outflow....... Lighting. What about a canopy (not a hood), so the tank is still open topped but would allow you to raise the light fixture without getting light spill. Also the primary optic on an LED chip (the little dome on them) is normally around the 120 degree mark, just pop the optics off the fixture and reassemble with out them. You may need to get a bit of acrylic to use as a splash guard if the unit relies on the optics to keep the LEDs safe. Link to comment
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