Wolf Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Well, I've been lurking, researching, and asking questions for the last three months and I'm finally ready, so here's the birth of my new nano project! It's going to be a while before any of the "good stuff" makes it way into the tanks, as I'll be cycling uncured live rock, which should take a few months, but I figured this would be the best place to keep my ongoing journal throughout the process, in hopes that you experts will chime in and let me know if I'm doing anything wrong! So, here's the basic diagram, the final draft hot off the drawing board. The holes are being drilled and the baffles and overflows are being put in the tanks right now and I'll be picking everything up Saturday. I got a lot of ideas from this site, so thank you nano-reef.com and all of the members who've helped me, answered my stupid questions, and posted good information for all to see! I tried to keep it as simple as possible, so it's just 3 standard 10 gallon tanks @ $8.99 each, the holes are costing me $25 each, and the overflows are costing me $20 each. So far, the total comes to ~ $190. Link to comment
Korbin Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 I don't think it will work setup like that. The blue line is the problem. Once it pumps up to the refugium, it will go no farther. The water in the blue pipe will reach the elevation of the refugium overflow and stop there. Why not have the display drain into the right side of the refugium, then have the refugium drain into the left side of the sump? That way you will only have to pump up to the display tank from the sump. Link to comment
Cellenzweig Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 I think you would need a second pump as well. The only other way would be to put a valve on the line to the fuge and limit the flow, forcing most of the water into the main tank. Your tank would have to be able to handle some good head pressure for this to work. Link to comment
jtsam Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 yeah, i'm with korbin, a direct flow through all would work best. i think i see what you were trying to do, have the sump pump into both the refugium and the display, with the refugium flowing back into the pump, but korbins right, that just won't work. you should just have a direct route through all. Link to comment
Cellenzweig Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 I disagree. I think that would create too much flow through the fuge, rendering it useless for nutrient export. On top of that, how would pods make it through the sock filter? Even if they did, they would have to make it through the baffles, possibly through the skimmer, through more baffles, then through the return pump before making it to the tank. Link to comment
Korbin Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 good point. Regardless of how it drains though, I think it still needs to be pumped up to 1 tank. It might look bad, but maybe position the 'fuge above the main tank? And have the sump below? Or maybe add another pump inside the refugium to pump pods up to the display tank? Link to comment
mapv281 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 make it go thru the skimmer first then refugium and back to the tank, if you do it like the plans, you wont be getting any benefit from the refugium, so why not make it go thru the sump first to clean out the dirty water and stuff, then thru the refugium and back to the tank so you could benefit from the refugium (pods, etc) Link to comment
Korbin Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Originally posted by mapv281 make it go thru the skimmer first then refugium and back to the tank, if you do it like the plans, you wont be getting any benefit from the refugium, so why not make it go thru the sump first to clean out the dirty water and stuff, then thru the refugium and back to the tank so you could benefit from the refugium (pods, etc) Like this? Wolf - I hope you don't mind me vandalizing your picture Link to comment
Wolf Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 Whoa! You guys have been busy while I was at lunch! Two critical pieces are missing from my drawing, that I probably should've added. There'll be ball valves on each return to control the flow rates into the display and fuge. I actually got the idea (and the drawing) from reefhippie. http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=33292 Won't that work? I do really appreciate you guys taking the time to help out! Jees, I thought I was all ready to go, and the holes are already being drilled! I HOPE it works! Link to comment
Korbin Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 If you throttle it back with a ball valve, its possible to get the water to reach the display tank. But I have a feeling you will need a monster pump to provide that much flow. And if you don't get full pipe flow to your 'fuge, the hydor might not work. Link to comment
Wolf Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 What if the pipe from the sump to the display went straight up, and it T'd off to the fuge? Would that help? Otherwise, maybe I could do two pumps? I was originally thinking about doing that anyway, just so there's no single point of failure. I've been looking at the Mag 5, so maybe a 5 and a 3? If I get a 7, and restrict the flow a lot, would that burn out the pump? I think one 7 would be less expensive than a 5 and 3... Link to comment
revance Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Heres an idea... Do it just like Korbins first picture, but have two overflows from the display tank. One going to the fuge, then to the sump (no sock filter), and the other going straight to the sump (w/ sock filter). This way the pump only pumps to the display tank, but the flow through the fuge would be (roughly) half that of Korbins first picture. It also solves the problem of the sock filter. Link to comment
Cellenzweig Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 If I get a 7, and restrict the flow a lot, would that burn out the pump? It will definately overwork the pump. That may shorten the life of it. I've been looking at the Mag 5, so maybe a 5 and a 3Those should do. You may consider an even smaller pump for the fuge. Low flow is a good thing there. Also, I don't really see a point to putting a hydor on the fuge. Just my $.02 Link to comment
Wolf Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 Yea, I'm putting the hydor in the fuge mostly for aesthetics, to make the plants sway back and forth, more natural looking IMO. I'll just have to play with the pumps and find out which one will work best. My LFS is pretty good about taking stuff back. I'll test it all out with a one gallon jug and see how quickly it fills it up, and do the calculations to found out how much my turn over rate is for each tank. I'm thinking 20 for the display. Anyone know a good turn over rate for the fuge? I know it's not supposed to be that much. Maybe a Maxi-Jet would be enough. Link to comment
Korbin Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Turnover rate is a rule-of-thumb thing. People will tell you different stuff, but IMPO, I don't think its as important as tank water mixing. As long as you have some good mixing within your 'fuge, you will get the beneficial effects of the 'fuge life polishing the water. If you're going to do true turnover rate calcs, you're looking at differential equations and calculus. Link to comment
bjk Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 too bad you're already getting it drilled, i would say go w/ a 20L or something a bit larger and make a sump refugium combo. Link to comment
Wolf Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 Here are the calculations I'm using to determine my flow rates. http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/beginners.../a/aa081399.htm I'm not crazy about the 20L, plus I'm limited on space, and I like the versatility. I also want to do it this way because I like the way it's stacked, so I can keep the sump hidden, and the fuge and display can both be visible, and completely seperate, so I can always upgrade later if I want. All I'll have to do is unplug them and plug a new one in, "plug and play" if you will! Link to comment
Wolf Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 Man, this thread's getting long and I haven't even posted my first real photo! Link to comment
petes Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 have you thought about how high this setup is going to look like? youre going to want room to put your hands into your sump like to take out the skimmer if you need to, clean the cup, or what not. and also room to trim your macro in your refugium. having 1 ten gallon tank in a 2 foot high space with a skimmer is already hard enough as it is for tinkering around with. that is unless you plan on having the sump and such behind a stand or room. otherwise, it sounds like your starting off the right way with everything. Link to comment
Wolf Posted June 17, 2004 Author Share Posted June 17, 2004 Oh yeah, I mean business when I say I spent the last three months on the drawing board! I've read 4 books front to cover, spent literally hours at every LFS in town with a tape measure, pen, and a notepad in hand! If you tell me exactly what you're looking for, I can tell you which store in the Tampa Bay area has the best one and how much it costs! I'm very meticulous by nature. I'm building a DIY stand/canopy. There's one major thing I don't like about every stand/canopy I've seen out there, and this is just my opinion, but I think they're all too short! I don't want to have to bend down to look in my tank, and I'm only 5'6"! So, the top of my display tank will be JUST under eye level, and the entire set-up will be 74 1/4 inches from top to bottom, including the 3/4" wood I'll be using. The 10 gallons are 12" tall and I'm leaving 12" above each one. I'm getting the AquaC Urchin In-Sump skimmer, which is 18" tall, and requires 6" of space above that for easy maintenance, according to their instructions, which is 24". It also leaves plenty of room for a 1 gallon water jug (milk carton size) for my auto-topoff. The 12" above the display tank will give me the necessary 10" of clearance between the metal halides, and I'll have cabinet doors on the front and will easily be able to reach in for feeding. I'll just have one of those little kitchen-type step latters for when I need to get into the tank. I'm also thinking (this part I'm still contemplating) of adding the kind of hydrolic hinges like they use on hoods for cars to be able to lift the canopy up. And MAYBE, I'll put the sump and fuge on pull-out drawers, like a computer server rack if you've ever seen one, with flexible tubing and a little slack, but that's also still up in the air. Those would just be nice-to-haves. If I don't do it though, I'm sure I'll regret it later! Link to comment
petes Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Sounds like you got it all planned then. I dont know how high your ceiling is but what looks really nice is to have a unit that goes all the way up to the ceiling that matches your wall (so its really an inwall setup). And if you were to make something that large Id put the refugium at the top and have it gravity feed back. And leave the refugium on display for people to see because it can be interesting too if you can get a bunch of life in there. Link to comment
Wolf Posted June 17, 2004 Author Share Posted June 17, 2004 That's a good idea! But this one is going in my office and the ceilings are 14 feet high or so, so I don't want to go THAT far! I think I will do that when I set one up at home though. Hmmm... Link to comment
Cellenzweig Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 14' huh.... I see 10 stacked 10g aquariums.... Link to comment
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