pricey. thoughts?

[Maniu]

Yeah, same here. I also check on fresh LR in petLand and petCo. When they get new LR delivery, you can find few really nice pieces...even with some shrooms on it. That's what I hand picked earlier today while getting new Selly crab.

[Rollermonkey]

Why are people still buying this crap?

[Horerczy]

Why are people still buying this crap?

What is "this crap"?

 

I'm gonna have to take some photos of the LR some of the LFS around here sell in store. Not sure what you all consider primo lr but some of the stores around here sell some really nice stuff.

I consider good live rock to be at least mostly covered in an interesting color of Coraline and not dropping a metric ton of detritus when it's pulled from the water. Also dead frags or colonies of coral like birdsnest.

[Rollermonkey]

BioBalls. These might be square or rectangular, but it's all the same crap, and as the OP mentioned, it's overpriced.

[CrazyEyes]

One of the stores around here, before they were bought another owner used to sell LR like that. Purple. pink. red coralline, numerous pieces had all kinds of extra stuff on them, mushrooms, polyps, zoas. Hell, one my favorite zoas colonies came as a free hitchhiker from some on the LR I bought from them.

[Horerczy]

BioBalls. These might be square or rectangular, but it's all the same crap, and as the OP mentioned, it's overpriced.

Hmm... probably because the surface area is amsolutely massive for the space taken up. The 8x8x4 block has 23,000 square feet of surface area. That's 4.35606 square miles (18.975258723 miles if one were able to stretch it out completely into a single line) of surface area in a block that takes up 6.35 Cubic inches of your water column.

 

Functionally it's identical to live rock with a form that allows it to be crammed into a corner and look like something other than a pile of rocks in your sump.

[Rollermonkey]

Sorry, you can't convert area to linear distance like that, so the 18.9 mile value is garbage. Second, that's not the correct conversion factor for square feet to square miles. (27,878,400 square feet in one square mile, not 5280.) That means 23k sqft is 0.00082501148 square miles.

 

I also doubt that 23,000 sqft value. Maybe 23,000 square inches.

 

 

Seriously, are you shilling for the company that makes this stuff?

[Horerczy]

Where was my head with those conversions? Oh well no matter.

 

You're saying they're getting away with lying ~3,289,000 square inches missing from a product? That's as bad as my math was. Your suggestion is theres 99.31% of that surface area missing. Lying about that much of a product missing (or in this case too much of a product being there?) is just a good way to get your company sued into the ground.

 

CerMedia's datasheet on the gives a +-13.33% difference in the surface area from 1.5m(squared)/grams. A reasonable variation in surface area.

 

Suggesting I'm shilling for a company because I have a differing opinion on a product is silly.

[Rollermonkey]

Companies try to exaggerate the benefits of their products all the time.

 

I went to the site and can't see where you're getting the numbers. Is it on the packaging?

 

I'm saying quoting numbers, particularly ones with bad math errors makes you sound like an exaggerating salesman instead of a hobbyist. A hobbyist would normally say something like: "I used this stuff and it worked better than when I had LR rubble because it was easier to keep clean."

 

I'm always skeptical of assertions like this, it isn't just you or the product we're discussing.

[Horerczy]

http://www.cermedia.com/marinepure-technical.php - basic tech specs

http://www.cermedia.com/MarinePureTechSheet.pdf - slightly more in depth tech specs and cleaning instructions.

http://www.cermedia.com/MarinePure%20Project%20Report.pdf - slightly biased i'm sure but entertaining (The plastic bio balls do nothing! Well not nothing but they're results are hilariously bad.) study. The porous stone's results confuse me.

 

 

These are where i got numbers from. They shoulda put a biowheel against it.

[Fnard]

Guess this could be a nifty product to use in a minimally scaped tank, if it works. Something I would think about for my future dwarf horse tank. But the question I would have, isn't Matrix pretty much the same stuff for hella cheaper?

[patback]

Guess this could be a nifty product to use in a minimally scaped tank, if it works. Something I would think about for my future dwarf horse tank. But the question I would have, isn't Matrix pretty much the same stuff for hella cheaper?

speaking as someone who had matrix and has only seen pictures of this.. I would take this over matrix.

[blasterman]

Another product in search of a solution. Quite honestly I don't know anybody with post HS education who would dare bring this stuff up in a college level science or biology class. I've also never seen any really amazing reef tanks running bio-balls.

 

You're saying they're getting away with lying ~3,289,000 square inches missing from a product?

 

There's no agency that's in charge of evaluating the truth behind reef products because nobody gets harmed if you use them wrong. Calculating the surface are of porous objects has never been an exact science in any respect. I can assure you the actual biological surface are isn't anywhere near what's advertised because an object with that much surface area would either absorb a specific amount of fluid in proportion to it's surface are or displace it. You can count the surface area of any porous object and the molecular facets will add up to huge abouts of 2-D area. Ask a chemist....it also doesn't matter.

 

Even if this 'crap' did have some magical ability from the Harry Potter Universe to have miles of surface area in a small volume it wouldn't change the biology in your tank. The amount of nitrosomonas and nitrobacter bacteria in your tank is directly proportional to the amount of ammonia and nitrite present. It has little to do with synthetic growth areas.

 

The amount of ammonia that would have to be introduced to require artificial growth areas like the 'crap' would kill any oxygen burner in your tank (fish / inverts). Sewage treatment plants are often required to build solutions like this. Not a fish tank.

 

What's more absurd is why anybody would actually argue for these type of products. Anybody with an I.Q. above 60 and actually understands how the nitrogen cycle works would logically conclude the best place to have biological filtration occur would be inside your tank -vs- a gadget hanging on the outside.

[Fnard]

Geesh Blaster, you're on a roll! First debunking the full spectrum LED/MH myth, now moving on to some biomedia! Doing a great job. Keep it up. So much info to absorb.

 

Oh, btw, how exactly does LR work as a bio-filter?

[Psychosis]

Geesh Blaster, you're on a roll! First debunking the full spectrum LED/MH myth, now moving on to some biomedia! Doing a great job. Keep it up. So much info to absorb.

 

Oh, btw, how exactly does LR work as a bio-filter?

I'm either detecting sarcasm or contempt, either way it sustains me.

[Maniu]

Ppl and their theories of superior logic, supporting or dismissals of ideas without any in depth experience and knowledge is a sweet material for entertaining debate lol

[tlombardo]

Another product in search of a solution. Quite honestly I don't know anybody with post HS education who would dare bring this stuff up in a college level science or biology class. I've also never seen any really amazing reef tanks running bio-balls.

 

 

There's no agency that's in charge of evaluating the truth behind reef products because nobody gets harmed if you use them wrong. Calculating the surface are of porous objects has never been an exact science in any respect. I can assure you the actual biological surface are isn't anywhere near what's advertised because an object with that much surface area would either absorb a specific amount of fluid in proportion to it's surface are or displace it. You can count the surface area of any porous object and the molecular facets will add up to huge abouts of 2-D area. Ask a chemist....it also doesn't matter.

 

Even if this 'crap' did have some magical ability from the Harry Potter Universe to have miles of surface area in a small volume it wouldn't change the biology in your tank. The amount of nitrosomonas and nitrobacter bacteria in your tank is directly proportional to the amount of ammonia and nitrite present. It has little to do with synthetic growth areas.

 

The amount of ammonia that would have to be introduced to require artificial growth areas like the 'crap' would kill any oxygen burner in your tank (fish / inverts). Sewage treatment plants are often required to build solutions like this. Not a fish tank.

 

What's more absurd is why anybody would actually argue for these type of products. Anybody with an I.Q. above 60 and actually understands how the nitrogen cycle works would logically conclude the best place to have biological filtration occur would be inside your tank -vs- a gadget hanging on the outside.

I'm responding here because this post hit my threshold for amount of people responding to this thread ignorantly and and as a result, incorrectly.

 

1. These aren't bio balls. Don't worry several other people have made this immensely incorrect assumption. It can be purchased as balls or blocks. Bio balls are plastic and have sh*t for surface area and no matter what the surface area of this media is, it is at least that of a very porous rock which is many many times greater than bio balls.

 

2. If this media DID have miles of surface area, or even a quarter of that, it would increase the space available for bacteria to grow which is necessary if rock in your DT isnt sufficient to support:

 

"The amount of nitrosomonas and nitrobacter bacteria in your tank is directly proportional to the amount of ammonia and nitrite present."

 

And sorry I trust a company enough to believe that their product performs at least 25% as well as they advertise.

 

3. On your point about an IQ of 60 and a "gadget hanging on the outside of your tank." I think that most people would have these in a sump or AIO. I don't think having this in a different area is an issue when people typically have turnover rates that have all the water in the tank pass through every few minutes. Also this:

 

 

There is only a little bit of just tonga under the coral (poor for bio filtration) so there is probably (edit: found a pic of the sump and I can see LR in there) biological filtration going on in the sump and things seem to be going well.

 

4. I have a tank with only Tonga branch which is not very porous at all and bad for bio filtration. I tried for a few weeks to make this work but the tank was struggling to process a small amount of ammonia and nitrite in any reasonable time. I added some of this ceramedia to one of the fuge columns of my 16g IM tank. A few days later the tank is working through ammonia like a champ. I understand that it only needs to sustain the bacteria needed to process the regular bio load of the inhabitants but for me, in my situation, my tank was at the point where I was worried about that.

 

To summarize: try to understand something before commenting on it (especially if you are going to write several paragraphs). These are not bio balls and are not similar to them. They have a specific use for people that want minimal DT scapes or have rock that is poor for bio filtration. I now have personal experience with this product and although I cannot verify the numbers for surface area I can say that my biological filtration capacity has increased significantly with this product.

 

I would recommend this product to those in a situation where it would be useful.

 

Tony

[DannaM]

Makes me want to totally rescape

[tlombardo]

Makes me want to totally rescape

If you are talking about the pic I posted yeah it makes me wish I was ready for an all sps tank like that ha. if you google mr kang reef and look through articles you can find pics of the scape before he even started the tank up so you can see what it really looks like.

 

-Tony

[CrazyEyes]

That's such an amazing tank, didn't he scape that with mostly if not all tonga branch? I know for a fact my 75g SPS tank will be getting atleast one of 8x8x4 blocks. I know a few people personally who use these with a minimal scape and they love them. And in my case, I don't want a DT crammed with LR and then more LR in the sump. I'd rather have a nice minimal two island scape with one of the 8x8x4 blocks in the sump. Maybe I'm crazy though.

[Maniu]

I'm responding here because this post hit my threshold for amount of people responding to this thread ignorantly and and as a result, incorrectly.

 

1. These aren't bio balls. Don't worry several other people have made this immensely incorrect assumption. It can be purchased as balls or blocks. Bio balls are plastic and have sh*t for surface area and no matter what the surface area of this media is, it is at least that of a very porous rock which is many many times greater than bio balls.

 

2. If this media DID have miles of surface area, or even a quarter of that, it would increase the space available for bacteria to grow which is necessary if rock in your DT isnt sufficient to support:

 

"The amount of nitrosomonas and nitrobacter bacteria in your tank is directly proportional to the amount of ammonia and nitrite present."

 

And sorry I trust a company enough to believe that their product performs at least 25% as well as they advertise.

 

3. On your point about an IQ of 60 and a "gadget hanging on the outside of your tank." I think that most people would have these in a sump or AIO. I don't think having this in a different area is an issue when people typically have turnover rates that have all the water in the tank pass through every few minutes. Also this:

 

 

There is only a little bit of just tonga under the coral (poor for bio filtration) so there is probably (edit: found a pic of the sump and I can see LR in there) biological filtration going on in the sump and things seem to be going well.

 

4. I have a tank with only Tonga branch which is not very porous at all and bad for bio filtration. I tried for a few weeks to make this work but the tank was struggling to process a small amount of ammonia and nitrite in any reasonable time. I added some of this ceramedia to one of the fuge columns of my 16g IM tank. A few days later the tank is working through ammonia like a champ. I understand that it only needs to sustain the bacteria needed to process the regular bio load of the inhabitants but for me, in my situation, my tank was at the point where I was worried about that.

 

To summarize: try to understand something before commenting on it (especially if you are going to write several paragraphs). These are not bio balls and are not similar to them. They have a specific use for people that want minimal DT scapes or have rock that is poor for bio filtration. I now have personal experience with this product and although I cannot verify the numbers for surface area I can say that my biological filtration capacity has increased significantly with this product.

 

I would recommend this product to those in a situation where it would be useful.

 

Tony

 

As if you could read my mind. Couldn't said it better myself. To keep it short - there are 100 ways to skin a cat and this is one of them. And since it works extremely well in small or that with minimalist approach in mind aquarium setup, it brings the number down from a 100 to half a dozen.

[tlombardo]

That's such an amazing tank, didn't he scape that with mostly if not all tonga branch? I know for a fact my 75g SPS tank will be getting atleast one of 8x8x4 blocks. I know a few people personally who use these with a minimal scape and they love them. And in my case, I don't want a DT crammed with LR and then more LR in the sump. I'd rather have a nice minimal two island scape with one of the 8x8x4 blocks in the sump. Maybe I'm crazy though.

this is the scape

 

http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/awlomba/media/6324488143.jpg.html'>

 

 

-Tony

[Maniu]

It flouts nicely. Tonga is my fav LR material but it is so goddamn expensive. My Sexy Cube will be filled with tonga but more in vertical orientation. (think, tonga forest or bonsai forest lol)

[tlombardo]

It flouts nicely. Tonga is my fav LR material but it is so goddamn expensive. My Sexy Cube will be filled with tonga but more in vertical orientation. (think, tonga forest or bonsai forest lol)

 

It isn't bad if you buy it dry from BRS. Assuming they have it in stock because they are frequently out of it. And if it is for a small tank make sure you let them know because by default their branches are a few inches thick which would equate to one massive redwood tree in a small tank ha.

 

Tony

[BattleAthletics]

If you are talking about the pic I posted yeah it makes me wish I was ready for an all sps tank like that ha. if you google mr kang reef and look through articles you can find pics of the scape before he even started the tank up so you can see what it really looks like.

 

-Tony

Good luck reading the rest of the articles they're all in ching chong