Review: Foster & Smith Select Nano Live Rock (Liveaquaria)

[Horerczy]

I'm not that sure I like it. The cardinal just hangs out deep in that cave all day and never comes out except at food time.

well at least you know he likes it.

[ballhog]

...The cardinal just hangs out deep in that cave all day and never comes out except at food time.

 

Your cycling the tank with the cardinal, I would imagine its not liking it too much.

[magicstix]

Your cycling the tank with the cardinal, I would imagine its not liking it too much.

 

You're saying this without knowing my water params?

[VABumpkin]

The fish had to endure high ammonia levels, regardless of what the params are now. Ammonia literally burns the gills of the fish. It's very cruel to the fish. Next time try to refrain from using fish to cycle. The rock really sucks btw, just get some dry rock from Reef Cleaners, Premium Aquatics, Marcorocks, etc.

[magicstix]

The fish had to endure high ammonia levels, regardless of what the params are now. Ammonia literally burns the gills of the fish. It's very cruel to the fish. Next time try to refrain from using fish to cycle. The rock really sucks btw, just get some dry rock from Reef Cleaners, Premium Aquatics, Marcorocks, etc.

 

So then you're saying a fish in a tank with zero ammonia is going to be burned by ammonia? Please explain to me how.

 

Don't you think it's rather ignorant to comment on such a thing without knowing what the levels were when the fish was added to the tank? Did you see me mention anywhere that it was added during the cycle?

[JonCubb]

^That's exactly what I'm doing this time.

Great, you'll love what they give you, and you can even ask for certain shapes and sizes. Check out my build thread in my sig and you can see the 30lb I got from them about a month ago and the 'scape I came up with (although it was my 1st time scaping).

[VABumpkin]

So then you're saying a fish in a tank with zero ammonia is going to be burned by ammonia? Please explain to me how.

 

Don't you think it's rather ignorant to comment on such a thing without knowing what the levels were when the fish was added to the tank? Did you see me mention anywhere that it was added during the cycle?

The fish was there during the diatom boom (as seen in the pictures). The diatoms grow as a result of high phosphates and nitrates during a cycle. A few days earlier the bacteria were barely starting to convert ammonia to nitrites. So unless you added the fish the day the diatom boom occurred, it did in fact endure high levels of ammonia. The aquarium is still cycling, it does not complete the cycle until the diatoms disappear (along with nitrates and phosphates). The Library, as well as the Beginner's Section is a great place to read articles about the basics of tank cycling. Good luck with the tank. It will look awesome when you get some good rock in there.

 

And I see you added corals as well... glwt

[Chadf]

While diatoms are common during the cycle, they are in no way an indicator of whether the tank is cycling or has cycled. And they are fed by silicates, not nitrates and phosphates.

 

The fish was there during the diatom boom (as seen in the pictures). The diatoms grow as a result of high phosphates and nitrates during a cycle. A few days earlier the bacteria were barely starting to convert ammonia to nitrites. So unless you added the fish the day the diatom boom occurred, it did in fact endure high levels of ammonia. The aquarium is still cycling, it does not complete the cycle until the diatoms disappear (along with nitrates and phosphates). The Library, as well as the Beginner's Section is a great place to read articles about the basics of tank cycling. Good luck with the tank. It will look awesome when you get some good rock in there. And I see you added corals as well... glwt

[magicstix]

The fish was there during the diatom boom (as seen in the pictures). The diatoms grow as a result of high phosphates and nitrates during a cycle. A few days earlier the bacteria were barely starting to convert ammonia to nitrites. So unless you added the fish the day the diatom boom occurred, it did in fact endure high levels of ammonia. The aquarium is still cycling, it does not complete the cycle until the diatoms disappear (along with nitrates and phosphates). The Library, as well as the Beginner's Section is a great place to read articles about the basics of tank cycling. Good luck with the tank. It will look awesome when you get some good rock in there.

 

I could take this time to explain to you what causes a diatom bloom, as well as what effect nitrates and phosphates have on fish (as opposed to ammonia and nitrites), but sadly I feel it would be wasted effort based on your posts so far. I sincerely hope you're only trolling and that you don't really believe most of what you've posted.

 

Yes the rock is quite crap, and if you had read the review, which is the very point of this post, you would've already known I'd said that.

 

 

For those that are wondering but don't want to make assumptions, the ammonia levels were zero, both free and total, when the cardinal went into the tank. Nitrite levels were less than 0.2 ppm, and I later determined this was an invalid test result due to a bad kit.

 

As you can see in the pic, there are several corals acclimating in their containers to go into the tank as well. All of the corals, save the xenia, had full polyp extension by the end of the day. I think we can all agree that would not be the case were ammonia present in the tank.

 

 

[VABumpkin]

While diatoms are common during the cycle, they are in no way an indicator of whether the tank is cycling or has cycled. And they are fed by silicates, not nitrates and phosphates.

Diatoms use both Silicates and Phosphates. The silicates are used to build their tiny skeleton, and the phosphates are used to build other parts of the diatom. Since there is pretty much no source for free ionic silicates in the aquarium, it is most likely a result of high phosphates. The way the nitrogen cycle works is that organics are added to the tank (fish poop, rock die off, etc) it is then converted to ammonia, then to nitrites, then to nitrates. Phosphates are added by dead organics. If you truly never experienced a spike in ammonia, this means that the tank has yet to cycle, which I doubt is true.

 

I could take this time to explain to you what causes a diatom bloom, as well as what effect nitrates and phosphates have on fish (as opposed to ammonia and nitrites), but sadly I feel it would be wasted effort based on your posts so far. I sincerely hope you're only trolling and that you don't really believe most of what you've posted.

 

Yes the rock is quite crap, and if you had read the review, which is the very point of this post, you would've already known I'd said that.

 

 

For those that are wondering but don't want to make assumptions, the ammonia levels were zero, both free and total, when the cardinal went into the tank. Nitrite levels were less than 0.2 ppm, and I later determined this was an invalid test result due to a bad kit.

 

As you can see in the pic, there are several corals acclimating in their containers to go into the tank as well. All of the corals, save the xenia, had full polyp extension by the end of the day. I think we can all agree that would not be the case were ammonia present in the tank.

 

 

We are a friendly community here. If someone tries to offer advice or information, we are only trying to help. I am not saying ammonia is in the tank ATM. I am saying that it most definitely was and may have been during the time the fish was added. If the xenia was added after ammonia fell, then of course it will do fine. Xenia love high nutrient levels as well.

[magicstix]

Diatoms use both Silicates and Phosphates. The silicates are used to build their tiny skeleton, and the phosphates are used to build other parts of the diatom. Since there is pretty much no source for free ionic silicates in the aquarium, it is most likely a result of high phosphates. The way the nitrogen cycle works is that organics are added to the tank (fish poop, rock die off, etc) it is then converted to ammonia, then to nitrites, then to nitrates. Phosphates are added by dead organics. If you truly never experienced a spike in ammonia, this means that the tank has yet to cycle, which I doubt is true.

 

Did you see me ever say I never had a spike in ammonia? Are you even reading the replies or just rattling off the first thing that comes into your head?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how some people can think they know so much with so little information. You're basing your entire premise on one blurry picture of a fish tank and a severe lack of understanding of diatom biology. But please, keep talking, remove all doubt anyone may have about how much you know about reef keeping.

[VABumpkin]

I am not claiming that the fish was added during the Ammonia spike, I asked whether the fish was added during the ammonia spike in my post up there ^. Thank you for answering and I am glad you waited for the ammonia to dissipate to add the fish.

Did you see me ever say I never had a spike in ammonia? Are you even reading the replies or just rattling off the first thing that comes into your head?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how some people can think they know so much with so little information. You're basing your entire premise on one blurry picture of a fish tank and a severe lack of understanding of diatom biology. But please, keep talking, remove all doubt anyone may have about how much you know about reef keeping.

You will get no where here with an attitude like that. Good luck with the tank, it will be awesome I'm sure. And the xenia is one of my favorite soft corals, I hope it does well for you.

[magicstix]

 

I am not saying ammonia is in the tank ATM. I am saying that it most definitely was and may have been during the time the fish was added.

...

So unless you added the fish the day the diatom boom occurred, it did in fact endure high levels of ammonia. The aquarium is still cycling, it does not complete the cycle until the diatoms disappear (along with nitrates and phosphates).

 

 

I am not claiming that the fish was added during the Ammonia spike...

 

I really feel like I'm missing something here. I am desperately trying to understand your way of thinking.

[VABumpkin]

"may have been during the time of the fish." at that time you did not tell me whether you added it before the cycle or not. that is why i said may have been. So here is the timeline you gave me:

 

Rock added

ammonia spike

nitrite spike

nitrate spike

fish added

possible phosphates still linger

coral added

 

We established that the fish was not added during the ammonia spike, which was what I was wondering.

[magicstix]

"may have been during the time of the fish." at that time you did not tell me whether you added it before the cycle or not. that is why i said may have been. So here is the timeline you gave me:

 

Rock added

ammonia spike

nitrite spike

nitrate spike

fish added

possible phosphates still linger

coral added

 

We established that the fish was not added during the ammonia spike, which was what I was wondering.

 

 

Without even reading the entire thread, you piled onto one statement made by another person based on a photograph. Your original statement about nitrates, phosphates, diatoms, and the initial cycle of a starting tank were pointed out to be incorrect by two members of the forum. Thanks to a complete lack of rigor on your part, you have derailed the thread and caused it to degenerate into a borderline flame war.

 

Now, rather than admit you were wrong, you continue to backpedal and walk back your original statements. I think you would make a fine politician one day.

[VABumpkin]

Not sure what's going on here. I was concerned that the fish experienced a not so fun time, asked questions, and gave information. I admit I did assume too much however because the diatoms were still there and the tank looked fairly young so i became a bit concerned that you were already adding animals. You responded very rudely and continued to do so, without actually giving out information, despite me offering solutions, questions, info for you to do well in the hobby. I have been in the hobby for almost 6 years now. At first I responded to people trying to help me similarly to what you are doing now. I thought they didn't know what they were talking about, I was rude, and in the end my mistakes cost me a lot. One thing I know is that attitudes and knowledge almost always change for the better.

[VABumpkin]

Without even reading the entire thread, you piled onto one statement made by another person based on a photograph. Your original statement about nitrates, phosphates, diatoms, and the initial cycle of a starting tank were pointed out to be incorrect by two members of the forum. Thanks to a complete lack of rigor on your part, you have derailed the thread and caused it to degenerate into a borderline flame war.

 

Now, rather than admit you were wrong, you continue to backpedal and walk back your original statements. I think you would make a fine politician one day.

Also, none of my statements were incorrect. I said that the nitrates and phosphates were most likely high because 1. the diatoms are feeding off phosphates and 2. nitrates usually spike when phosphates begin to peak from leeching out of dead stuff, simply as a coincidence. The diatoms have a very small amount of silica to feed off of from the rock, and the phosphates are the main factor for their growth. Phosphates are used by organisms like algae and plants to build tissue. You have offered next to nothing in terms of actual information, unless you count being hostile as information. You are new here. Do not insult others who have been in the hobby or on the forum for longer than you unless they are genuinely attacking you. It will only end badly if you do so.

[1.0reef]

The LFS gets its live rock via mail or airfreight too... ;P

 

 

However, the main problem is they advertised the rock as something it wasn't. If they tell you tons of hitchhikers and 70% coraline coverage, that's what you expect.

 

Anyway, here's what the rock looked like 10 days in (ignore the specimen containers acclimating with corals in them ^_^ .

 

The only color the rocks had was the diatom bloom from the cycle...

 

Cover them in algae and say they're marimo moss balls lol

But seriously, those are awful rocks!

[Tamberav]

Bad rocks but nice scape. If you get enough corals.. you won't be able to see the rocks. QUICK! GO BUY LIKE 200 CORALS!!!

 

 

I feel like maybe they sent you the wrong rock... I mean it looks nothing like the picture.. the picture looks pretty nice.

 

"which have been chosen specifically for their interesting shapes and small sizes that are ideal for a Nano Reef Aquarium"

 

If it was the right shape but bare of life.. I could understand... but they can't seriously ship those softballs out and call it this:

 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/images/categories/product/p-80343-live-rock.jpg

[VABumpkin]

after thinking about it what I really want to know is what is going on over at Live Aquaria these days? This is seriously something I would expect from aquacon not LA.

[Tamberav]

after thinking about it what I really want to know is what is going on over at Live Aquaria these days? This is seriously something I would expect from aquacon not LA.

 

Maybe they hired.. a new guy... and he just threw a bunch of rock in a box. This is pretty weird for LA.

[VABumpkin]

he went out in the parking lot and hammered a few chunks of concrete out of the curve.

[Tamberav]

he went out in the parking lot and hammered a few chunks of concrete out of the curve.

 

ya and kept the real rock for himself.. the ol' switcheroo...

[magicstix]

Bad rocks but nice scape. If you get enough corals.. you won't be able to see the rocks. QUICK GO BUY LIKE 200 CORALS.

 

 

I feel like maybe they sent you the wrong rock... I mean it looks nothing like the picture.. the picture looks pretty nice.

 

"which have been chosen specifically for their interesting shapes and small sizes that are ideal for a Nano Reef Aquarium"

 

If it was the right shape but bare of life.. I could understand... but that can't seriously ship those softballs out and call it this:

 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/images/categories/product/p-80343-live-rock.jpg

 

Maybe they did send me the wrong rocks and that's why I got a refund? Who knows... I don't know how you mess up rock though. This stuff looks bad even for "standard" Fiji rock. At least there were 3 pieces that weren't balls or I'd have had no chance of getting together any kind of aquascape...

 

Sadly you only get one chance to make a first impression. I won't trust them again with rocks, but I'll at least give them a chance with fish and corals.

[VABumpkin]

honestly the rocks in the pictures don't look that great either. especially if they cherry picked the best ones for the photos.