Clarinet_Reefer Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I can't wait to see what kind of scape you'll have in this tank. I love seeing small tanks packed with life. Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Well, some good news and some bad news. My macro lens came in today and I was all set to snap some pics of the aquascape and setup. When I turned on my computer tower though, I got an error message. Long story short, the HDD the operating system was on is dead. I'm currently installing the OS on my backup drive, but I won't be able to process or post DSLR pics/vids until I get my computer and Adobe Lightroom up and running again. Problem is, I have no idea where my Lightroom disk is. Talk about terrible luck and timing. Other than that the water is starting to clear despite me continuously moving rocks and sand around. I ran my first set of tests ever on the tank today, it's 2nd day in operation, which yielded the following results: NH3: .25ppm NO2: 0 ppm NO3: 5ppm pH: 7.9 temp: 77F Water change water: temp: too hot! pH: 8.6+ (likely temperature related) I know there's supposed to be a waiting period before the bacteria begin to starve off due to having nothing to eat--however the numbers suggest the die off caused by the shipping process may give me a fairly unorthodox cycle. That's the only reason I can think of for already having some NO3--any other thoughts on this? I'll be testing again every day for a little while to see if I can map some sort of trend. Hopefully I don't run into any major complications. Will update again as soon as I get my comp and Lightroom up and running. Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 So I forgot that with Lightroom you can actually download the program for free, you just have to enter the serial code, which I was able to do. All the rest of my computer stuff is messed up, but I was able to snap the pic above real quick. Sorry for the dirty glass. More angles to come tomorrow! Link to comment
eitallent Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 What a bummer about the computer crash. Your rockscape is very epic with the twin peaks. I like it! Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 What a bummer about the computer crash. Your rockscape is very epic with the twin peaks. I like it! Lol twin peaks. But yeah, wanted to shoot for the islands look. There's a perfect empty space just behind the small island toward the rear of the tank for a couple gorgonians which will provide a nice colorful background in contrast with the dull black plastic back there. Given that I ordered the rock sight unseen, I got some great pieces. The large island is mostly made out of branches as you can tell, and each branch is big enough to fit a separate coral on. I'll mock up an FTS with some superimposed projected locations of coral that I'm already starting to think about. There are also a few caves/contouring that I'm sure the porcelain crabs will be happy to have when they're all scared from being newly added to the tank. Edit: Lightroom and new install of windows up and running, more pics to come soon. Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Day 3: NH3: 0 N02: 0 N03: 5 Since I did 2 day shipping instead of picking up from the store, I'm wondering how the die-off is affecting these numbers. Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 So unfortunately my landlord is ripping the carpet up in my room and I have to move all of my belongings out. As a result, the tank will have to move as well which is a shame because I feel like it's going to mess with the cycle in some way shape or form. To move the tank I'll likely have to drain the water and remove the rocks, which means the scape could be different once I move it back. I guess I can take this opportunity to remove the rocks and glue them together which I haven't done--they're just stacked at the moment. Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 After having tested the water both last night and tonight, it's pretty apparent that the move has had zero affect on the cycle which is great. Hopefully the move back into my room later this week will go swimmingly as well. Looking forward to adding the first livestock which at this point will likely be; CUC (two hermits two snails probably), a couple feather dusters, chaeto, maiden's hair macro, and two small porcelain crabs. Coral and gorgonians and sponges are a little more difficult so I'll wait for a couple weeks on those. Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Day six, going well so far, still trying to figure out the cycle numbers though. Nitrate is now at 40, all time high (was 0-0-10-25-30 for previous five days), and I never saw an ammonia nor nitrite spike. I wonder if this trend is caused by the die off associated with the two day shipping I did, as opposed to the same day tank placement you would get directly from the LFS. If there was some die off during shipping, that might have been enough to feed the remaining bacteria that turned the NH3 into the NO3 I'm seeing get pretty high now. I'm just confused that nitrates are continuing to rise each day but I never saw so much as a peep for ammonia nor nitrite--they've been zero almost every day. Link to comment
tjbell Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 sub'd for sure. maybe it had a ton of BB on the rock already? Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 sub'd for sure. maybe it had a ton of BB on the rock already? Would be nice haha! I'll be moving the tank back to it's permanent location in a few days once the floor in my room is taken care of, so I hope nothing wonky happens in the mean time. I'm thinking any die off caused by the long time the rock spent in shipping functioned in the same way as when people add uncooked shrimp or dose at the beginning of their tanks' setup to kick start the cycle. Link to comment
tjbell Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Sounds plausible to me good luck with the move Link to comment
eitallent Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Some people use macro algae to reduce levels of the nitrates. It is really great that you had enough good bacteria that they took care of the ammonia so quickly that it didn't even register on the minimum levels of the test. Basically, there was ammonia but never at a high enough level at which your tester could detect. Now there is not enough of the anaerobic bacteria yet in the live rock or algae to use up the nitrates From a great article http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/4/chemistry : Nitrate is then reduced again to an N2 gas in anaerobic conditions (denitrification), thereby completing the cycle (Figure 1). Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Some people use macro algae to reduce levels of the nitrates. It is really great that you had enough good bacteria that they took care of the ammonia so quickly that it didn't even register on the minimum levels of the test. Basically, there was ammonia but never at a high enough level at which your tester could detect. Now there is not enough of the anaerobic bacteria yet in the live rock or algae to use up the nitrates From a great article http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/4/chemistry : Holeeee cow that was a good read. The more stuff I read from AA, the more it grows on me as a tool/resource. And yeah, once I start to add inhabitants I'll be adding chaeto to help with nitrate export. To be honest though, I don't know how much there will be, or even if there will be enough to sustain chaeto. My tank is going to be full of nothing but a handful of filter-feeders eating phytoplankton and zooplankton--which, as far as my research shows, doesn't really amount to anything even if some goes uneaten. Even moreso if I'm only feeding microplankton in amounts fit for a just few crabs/sponges/gorgs. Link to comment
eitallent Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 off topic: I love your kitty avatar! Lovely. Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Strong, bold rock work! If I may, there are a couple things you might want to consider for one these small tanks regarding rock work. If you lean rock onto the back wall it'll make it difficult to keep the wall clear of coralline and other growths (personal choice; some like the clean look, some don't). The other concern which I consider more important is that water circulation around the tank is compromised if it can't flow relatively unobstructed in a complete circular path. Moving rock just an inch or two away from a wall can really help with circulation and avoid dead spots where deposits of detritus can form. The other alternative is to have multiple flow nozzles placed in strategic spots to help mitigate the dead spot effect, but it's a more complicated solution. Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted August 2, 2013 Author Share Posted August 2, 2013 Strong, bold rock work! If I may, there are a couple things you might want to consider for one these small tanks regarding rock work. If you lean rock onto the back wall it'll make it difficult to keep the wall clear of coralline and other growths (personal choice; some like the clean look, some don't). The other concern which I consider more important is that water circulation around the tank is compromised if it can't flow relatively unobstructed in a complete circular path. Moving rock just an inch or two away from a wall can really help with circulation and avoid dead spots where deposits of detritus can form. The other alternative is to have multiple flow nozzles placed in strategic spots to help mitigate the dead spot effect, but it's a more complicated solution. Thanks for the advice! I don't really mind coralline algae per se, but good flow has definitely been on my mind recently. As you can tell by my stocking list, the tank will primarily be home to a number of filter-feeders, hence the no mechanical filtration thing. Right now I have an old minijet 606 in there which is supposed to crank out 153gph max. Problem is, that figure is rated for 0", and I know the pushing power of these little pumps drops off quickly--not to mentioned the hydor FLO impeding the strength of the pump. Seeing as in an NC6 the pump has to clear some 6" of tube, I'll probably end up upgrading to something more around the strength that you're using in your TOTM tank. I made the mistake miscalculation of ordering fairly fine grain sand, so I'll just have to get used to some drifts and blasting the rocks (which I was planning to do anyway). Regardless, I'll be moving the tank to it's final resting location either tonight or tomorrow, and moving the large island forward an inch or two away from the back wall is definitely on the agenda Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted August 3, 2013 Author Share Posted August 3, 2013 So it's pretty late, but I was able to move the tank tonight. The superglue didn't hold the best on the rock work, so things definitely shifted a bit--hopefully nothing falls in the future. Will post a pic of the revised 'scape in the morning. And a pleasant surprise before I moved the tank--when I came home from work I found the beginnings of green hair algae, and some air bubbles forming on the rock. I forget the algae/bacteria associated with the bubbles, but I remember it's not the best sign haha. I got home after dusk so I didn't run any cycle related tests today due to poor indoor lighting conditions. (All of the lights in my house are incandescent and fairly yellow). We'll see where things stand once the water settles at some point in the afternoon tomorrow. Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 Two types of nuisance algae covered the entire rock/glass in a period of 24 hours! I've never seen anything grow this quickly. Some of the green hair algae strands are like 5" long--it's intense. I'm not sure what the other type is...it's more stout and fluffy like a fern. I just can't believe how quickly everything took off. Still no action on the nitrogen cycle front. Reading close to zero on all accounts. pH, temp, and salinity remain ideal. I had been considering not getting any scarlets in my CUC due to having a lack of algae for them to eat, but it looks like they'll have a full blown forest by the time the tank is done cycling (if it ever starts ). The outbreak also confirms my suspicion of likely needing chaeto and maiden's hair to take care of the excess nutrients so the GHA and other mystery algae don't go nuts. Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Cycles of different types of algae growth are normal in a newly set up tank. Certain types of algae are specialized to take advantage of 'virgin territory' (such as major disturbances after a hurricane, etc). They typically die back as the ecosystem matures and stabilizes, assuming that they don't have excessive nutrients to feast on. Just need a few herbivors (and maybe some assistance from the aquarist) to keep it under control and then regularly export the fecal pellets/detritus to keep nutrients (mainly phosphate) in check. Things will stabilize...in time. Link to comment
eitallent Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Yep, that was fast! The cycle has to have happened if there are nitrates enough to feed the algae. Is that correct? Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Cycles of different types of algae growth are normal in a newly set up tank. Certain types of algae are specialized to take advantage of 'virgin territory' (such as major disturbances after a hurricane, etc). They typically die back as the ecosystem matures and stabilizes, assuming that they don't have excessive nutrients to feast on. Just need a few herbivors (and maybe some assistance from the aquarist) to keep it under control and then regularly export the fecal pellets/detritus to keep nutrients (mainly phosphate) in check. Things will stabilize...in time. That would be nice. I'm really hoping the chaeto & maiden's hair flex their muscles so to speak. Yep, that was fast! The cycle has to have happened if there are nitrates enough to feed the algae. Is that correct? Oooh, yeah maybe? I mean that certainly makes sense. I'm just afraid to add anything on the premise that the cycle is over, and then find out it hasn't really run its course. High ammonia isn't something I want to subject any critters to : / Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Algae utilize ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as 'food'. I remember reading in an article that ammonia is actually preferred by algae since it takes less energy to utilize. Link to comment
MR.FEESH Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Algae utilize ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as 'food'. I remember reading in an article that ammonia is actually preferred by algae since it takes less energy to utilize. Well that certainly makes sense as well. I'm wiling to continue the every-day tests until I see at least something move. Link to comment
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