THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

[albertthiel]

Speaking of BTA's...

 

Any ideas on getting this green BTA out of this cave? He's just so massive, I want to move him to another tank because he is taking up too much room in this tank. He's grown even more since this photo was taken and there's a lot more coral around him.

 

His foot is inside a cave like structure (aqua-tecture ceramic molds) so it's impossible to use the credit card trick or powerhead aim at his food.

 

I've been thinking of possibly shading him so he decides to move on his own but if I'm not at home when he moves he could wreck some corals around him.

 

Make it uncomfortable where it now is ... more water flow on it may help but you say that did not seem to do it, or what I used to do was use ice cubes to get it to decide that it wanted to move, but you have to be able to get passed the tentacles and that may not be possible based on what I see. Alternatively using a syringe aim sold cold water at it every 30 or so minutes and see if that works.

 

You could also use something to shield a good deal of the light it is getting as you say, and see if that makes it want to come out and move.

 

You will have to try a number of tricks as once they are really deep in a rock it is not easy to get them out.

 

Alternatively, get the whole rock out and remove whatever else is on it and then move it to the larger tank. And that may be the only way you will get it to come out of its crevice. Or move the rock in the tank it is in now and see whether that helps as the conditions will change if the rock is not in the same place anymore and that may do it, but I cannot be sure ... Sometimes the only thing that will work is taking the rock out altogether ... but not sure whether you can do that.

 

Thoughts ? Hopes some of this helps.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

 

NOT THE THING TO DO AS I HAVE DISCOVERED.

Hi Albert and all.

 

My Mag was on the low side so I decided to make my own mag supplement. The recommended ratio mix is 7.5 to 0.75 Magnesium chloride to Magnesium sulphate.

 

I decided to add this to my top up so not to shock the system with too rapid and increase in magnesium.

 

So far so good then I decided to run it through my Kalk stirrer NOT GOOD! It seems a reaction took place between the mag solution and the kalk in the stirrer.

 

My AquaMedic stirrer looked like it was 3/4 full of Kalk powder and as if the power within had expanded many fold. The good news the tank dose not appear to be affected at all and all corals are fine. I have emptied the kalk stirrer and refilled it with kalk powder and obtain a nano peri pump dosser to administer mag separately as and when required.

 

This is a video of the nano dosing pump I will probably buy to administer mag solution separately from my ATU and kalk stirrer.

 

That is odd indeed Les, well actually it is not all that odd actually, but thanks for the up and up so others do not make the same and end up with an issue as you did as if you had not caught it the reaction that happened could have ruined your device IMO or at least get it to stop working as the stirrer seized but with the power still running the motor could have burned out IMO.

 

I seems like the calcium and the magnesium starting to bind with the carbonate ones and that may have precipitated and caused what you found and it happens when there is a supersaturation of carbonate ions as explained in the article below which I think I posted a long time ago but found by doing a search for it on this thread ....

 

Randy Holmes-Farley on "DIY Magnesium Supplements and Magnesium in General"

 

Link : http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php

 

The article deals with a lot more than what happened to you so it should be of interest to a lot of readers especially since he Magnesium issue and control seems to come up on other threads on a fairly regular basis.

 

Glad nothing untoward happened but based on the reaction that took place that would have been unlikely ...

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

The Clownfish of Bali Aquatics - on the NanoReefBlog

 

With lots of images of hybrid clowns ....

 

 

 

Link :

 

http://www.nanoreefblog.com/features/fish-features/the-clownfish-of-bali-aquarich

 

Albert

[atoll]

Thanks Albert and I won't be doing that again for sure. I got my % for making the magnesium from that link you put up. I will use a separate reservoir and nano pump when I can get one to dose my magnesium in future.

That is odd indeed Les, well actually it is not all that odd actually, but thanks for the up and up so others do not make the same and end up with an issue as you did as if you had not caught it the reaction that happened could have ruined your device IMO or at least get it to stop working as the stirrer seized but with the power still running the motor could have burned out IMO.

 

I seems like the calcium and the magnesium starting to bind with the carbonate ones and that may have precipitated and caused what you found and it happens when there is a supersaturation of carbonate ions as explained in the article below which I think I posted a long time ago but found by doing a search for it on this thread ....

 

Randy Holmes-Farley on "DIY Magnesium Supplements and Magnesium in General"

 

Link : http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php

 

The article deals with a lot more than what happened to you so it should be of interest to a lot of readers especially since he Magnesium issue and control seems to come up on other threads on a fairly regular basis.

 

Glad nothing untoward happened but based on the reaction that took place that would have been unlikely ...

 

Albert

[flypenfly]

Baby stingrays, just because.

 

[albertthiel]

Thanks Albert and I won't be doing that again for sure. I got my % for making the magnesium from that link you put up. I will use a separate reservoir and nano pump when I can get one to dose my magnesium in future.

 

Yes I guess you just cannot mix the 2 the way you did. Other than that I guess you should be OK.

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

Baby stingrays, just because.

 

They are so cool. I love those and would give "your" right arm to have one. Of course I would have to let it go when it reached 4' across but very cool.

I once had a remora that was about an inch long and with in a year it was a foot long. I gave it to the NY aquarium.

They used to sell baby sea turtles in a LFS in Manhattan for $50.00. I don't know how many they sold or who would be stupid enough to buy one but I am glad you can't buy them any longer.

[eitallent]

Just a little update on the Seahorse situation.

 

I ordered the extra cirri option from southwatch seahorse and they weren't kidding. These are H. Erectus.

 

Unfortunately the tall tank I was planning to use arrived damaged so a replacement is being sent to me next week. So until next weekend they're just sharing my sumped ADA 60p with the clownfish, mandarin and fairy wrasse.

 

Notes:

 

I need to come up with a better feeding tray situation. Possibly an inverted clam or oyster shell.

The two picasso clowns I have don't seem to be at all interested in Mysis, just hikari marine-s pellets.

I need to order some macro algae

The fake blade plants I installed are their favorite spots.

 

I also find it pretty funny that due to my poor placement of the tray, one of the seahorses wraps it's tail around the other to gain more reach.

 

Album so far:

http://imgur.com/a/4C2vQ

 

A couple of my favorite:

 

I saw these videos from Majestic Aquariums in Australia and thought of you, flypenfly.

 

Acclimatizing seahorses ( which I know you know but its a good video for those that do not)

 

Setting up a SH tank

[albertthiel]

Baby stingrays, just because.

 

 

Very nice ... I like it ... and you may like the video of baby Manta Rays " dancing " Very interesting ...

 

Link to Video :

 

http://www.thefeaturedcreature.com/2012/09/dancing-baby-stingrays.html

 

This IS really something to watch for sure !

 

Thanks for that post

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

I used to collect seahorses. We have breeding populations of them here in NY.

I also invented and patented this seahorse feeder. http://breedersregistry.org/Articles/v4_i3_paul_b/paul_b.htm

 

I don't sell the thing any more but it helped me keep the little suckers alive and breed.

 

Seahorses are a very easy animal to keep and breed if you have no life because they take up an enormous amount of time as they eat more times than I do.

[albertthiel]

Baby stingrays, just because.

 

They are so cool. I love those and would give "your" right arm to have one. Of course I would have to let it go when it reached 4' across but very cool.

 

I once had a remora that was about an inch long and with in a year it was a foot long. I gave it to the NY aquarium.

 

They used to sell baby sea turtles in a LFS in Manhattan for $50.00. I don't know how many they sold or who would be stupid enough to buy one but I am glad you can't buy them any longer.

 

Yes those Baby Sting Rays are definitely something else ... you gotta watch that video I posted a link to ... it is super !

 

And on the Turtles ... I agree + a lot of them carried diseases if I remember correctly and the sales of them may have been banned, not sure though as I think it was only a specific type of Turtle that was implicated.

 

On the remoras : someone maybe 2 months ago posted on the thread here about remoras they caught off the NJ coast and they did not know what it was at first ... but we ID 'ed it.

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

And on the Turtles ... I agree + a lot of them carried diseases if I remember correctly and the sales of them may have been banned, not sure though as I think it was only a specific type of Turtle that was implicated.

 

On the remoras : someone maybe 2 months ago posted on the thread here about remoras they caught off the NJ coast and they did not know what it was at first ... but we ID 'ed it.

 

Albert

The baby turtles that you refer to are red eared sliders, there was really nothing wrong with the turtles but people kept them in filthy conditions and kids were putting them in their mouth and getting sick, like Duh. If you are a parent what is the first thing you would let your kid put in his mouth? A filthy turtle who is wallowing around in ten day old turtle poop.

 

Those are freshwater turtles, but the ones that were sold in Aquarium Stock Company in Manhattan were green sea turtles which can get as large as Govenor Christie. They have no reason to be in a fish tank and will not live very long.

They were banned from selling them because all sea turtles are protected. In the US anyway, in some places they are just called lunch.

 

I know a place here in NY where I can find diamond backed terripins which are salt water turtles that were (and still are) used as food. They are also protected as they should be.

[albertthiel]

I used to collect seahorses. We have breeding populations of them here in NY.

I also invented and patented this seahorse feeder. http://breedersregistry.org/Articles/v4_i3_paul_b/paul_b.htm

 

I don't sell the thing any more but it helped me keep the little suckers alive and breed.

 

Seahorses are a very easy animal to keep and breed if you have no life because they take up an enormous amount of time as they eat more times than I do.

 

You will never start to amaze me Paul ... great idea which I guess eventually developed into the feeder for the Mandarin Fish that the Copperband also feeds from.

 

Very nice and very clever .... so what else is there that you invented that we do not know about yet ? There must be more I am sure.

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

How I keep fish healthy.

Now these are things "I" do to keep fish healthy, not what I think "you" should do, or what my GrandMother did so these are "My" opinions, "my" practices and methods.
I read so many posts about diseases, fish disappearing, dying, turning colors etc. and I scratch my head and can't figure out why.
I know many people quarantine, and think they feed well, have fantastic parameters, hand pick their fish, read to them and most of them report that the fish died in a few weeks from one of many malady's.
This should not be. Most of the fish that we normally keep should live at least ten years, and that is a minimum. Even a simple goldfish can live over fifty years, and thats a goldfish. I have no idea how long fish live but I have had a few fish live over 19 years, two as a matter of fact but many of my older fish I gave away or donated to public aquariums.
So I feel there is a problem in the way many people keep fish. If you are interested I will tell you what "I" do to keep fish healthy and spawning.
If you are not interested, you wasted your time and mine by reading this first paragraph.

Keeping fish in perfect health has always been a goal of mine and after killing many fish, I have it down to a science. It does take some work so if you are real lazy, call up the people that wasted their time by reading this so far and do lunch.

I wrote about this many times but we are not fish, we are not like fish, we don't have the same digestive system as a fish and we certainly don't have a fishes immune system which is in some respects, actually better than ours. Why is that?
Well first of all a fish "breathes: water and extracts oxygen through it's gills, (yes we all know that) but the water is actually an extension of the fishes circulatory system. Bet you didn't know that. Whatever is in the water, is in the fish. We breathe air and unless we live in a sewer, the air is cleaner than the water because microbes can't fly and eventually hit the ground. But microbes do swim as do paracites, bacteria, viruses, and probably Paris Hilton's dog.
A fish has evolved to repel most of these microbes. The slime on a fish is one means of protection as are scales. But the main defense of a fish is it's immune system which works great, in the sea. Not so much in a tank. Why is that?

Well this is where the problem comes in and why there are so many posts about diseases. Probably 85% of posts are about sick fish.
Many people feel that if they offer a fish a varied diet, that is the best thing for a fish, right? Wrong.
Fish don't need a varied diet, they need what they were designed to eat and each type of fish needs a different diet. But there is one thing almost all fish need and that is fresh, unprocessed food. Flakes, pellets and many frozen foods don't fit the bill although a fish can live for many years on that food.

But do you want your fish to live, or do you want it to thrive?
There is a big difference. If your fish get, or have ever gotten ich, they are not thriving. If they get fungus, they are not thriving, if they die before ten or twenty years, they are not thriving (that is fish that will live that long, not seahorses, pipefish or many small gobies)
Fish in the sea rarely get sick. In my 40 or so years of diving I can't remember seeing a sick fish. But in tanks a large percentage of them just look lousy and if you ever saw fish in the see you will notice a big difference between them and a fish in a tank.

OK anyway, this is what I do. Every day my fish get some live food. They get live blackworms and new born brine shrimp. The baby brine shrimp is only because I have a lot of smaller fish and gorgonians. New born brine shrimp are very nutritious due to their yock sack, but they only have it for a short while so you need to feed them as soon as they hatch.
I have been using live blackworms for over fifty years and that is how I get my mandarins, bangai cardinals and fireclowns to spawn.
Also every day they get clams and mysis. That is almost the extent of their diet. Clams are much better than shrimp, octopus, scallop or squid because you are feeding the entire animal and the nutrition is in the guts, not the muscle which is all you are feeding with those other foods.
When a fish eats another fish you will notice that they eat the belly and guts first. They know where the nutrition is.
Frozen mysis are good (as a suppliment) but they are mostly shell which has no nutrition because their shell is not calcium like a fish skeleton is.
Clams contain calcium in their guts.
I discovered blackworms for salt water fish in 1972 when I was keeping blue devils which were the only fish available except for domino's.
The fish would live but were always getting ich. After feeding live worms for 3 weeks, one of the 7 blue devils changed to a darker blue and he became a male. The 6 females started to get fat and he started to breed with them. The eggs always hatched, and that was 40 years ago.
I have been using live worms ever since.
If it were not for blackworms I don't think I would stay in this hobby.
Anyway, a spawning fish is a healthy fish as it takes an enormous amount of energy and extra nutrition to develop eggs that could be almost half the fishes weight.
Spawning fish are in the healthiest condition a fish could be in and that is the condition fish in the sea are always in. Spawning fish do not get ich. In my experience anyway. I personally do not have to quarantine and I have no use of a hospital tank because I know my fishes immune system will protect them.
Yes I hear all the time my tank is a time bomb and soon it will get ich and I will lose all my fish. That may be, but I can determine the health of my fish from across the room and I can (but do not) put a fish in my tank with obvious ich and nothing will happen.
DON'T do that, and if you don't have my tank, keep quarantining. It takes years to get to that point and I don't advocate that you change your practices, but wouldn't it be nice if your fish were protected from these things and could live ten or twenty years?
I also have an automatic feeder on the tank which dispenses soft pellets that I add fish oil to. I am big on fish oil (I even take it myself) and feel it is woefully missing in all commercially sold foods as it doesn't store well and goes bad in the presence of oxygen. To me fish oil is one of the most important things and live worms contain oil. I doubt there would be any decent oil in freeze dried foods. When a fish develops eggs, most of those eggs are almost all oil. A fiahes liver could be a quarter of it's weight and it is almost all oil.
Of course the best food for fish is whole fish because they get the oil, calcium and nutrients in the exact proportions that they need, but tiny fresh fish are not sold for fish food which is a shame. I have spoken to "Ocean Nutrition" about this but they don't seem interested.
Again, these are the things "I" do. I didn't say "you" should do them so if you feel differently, don't argue with me. Start your own thread and call it "Paul B doesn't know a worm from Paris Hilton's Dog" or something to that effect because this is only what"I" do. I also run a UG filter but lets not talk about that right now.

 

I have also put this picture on here numerous times, so If you saw it already, go read a book. I didn't take this picture, my closest friend a ddive partner took it in the Caymans (I think)

To the left of the nurse shark are fish fry. That is the main food of reef fish and they eat them every day. Whole fish, or whole worms are the best thing you could feed fish.

These fry are all over the place in the sea as healthy fish spawn continousely, all year.

 

[flypenfly]

I want to try feeding live black worms, how do I get started?

 

Also, I want to buy one of those feeders.

[Paul.b]

You first find a store that has them, then we go from there

[flypenfly]

Fat chance in manhattan.

[Subsea]

Paul,

Considering busy lifestyles of many today, their tanks are not their full time job. Does quick frozen Pe Mysis and Cyclop-Eeze constitute a complete diet? I liked your point about supplying diet for a specific fish. I often set up mono specific tanks and provide multiple nutrient pathways to provide complex food webs.

Patrick

[albertthiel]

The baby turtles that you refer to are red eared sliders, there was really nothing wrong with the turtles but people kept them in filthy conditions and kids were putting them in their mouth and getting sick, like Duh. If you are a parent what is the first thing you would let your kid put in his mouth? A filthy turtle who is wallowing around in ten day old turtle poop.

 

Those are freshwater turtles, but the ones that were sold in Aquarium Stock Company in Manhattan were green sea turtles which can get as large as Govenor Christie. They have no reason to be in a fish tank and will not live very long.

They were banned from selling them because all sea turtles are protected. In the US anyway, in some places they are just called lunch.

 

I know a place here in NY where I can find diamond backed terripins which are salt water turtles that were (and still are) used as food. They are also protected as they should be.

 

I was never really fascinated too much by Turtles except the 300+ year old ones they have at the Antwerp Zoo but that was over 30 years ago but since they seem to live for so long they are probably still there.

 

I did remember something about those little ones you mention and yes I fully agree .. the sticking them in their mouths is more than likely what made the kids sick, but I thought they had some parasites too, but I could be wrong .. as I have been known to be ...

 

Of course as you say in many countries they eat them, or make soup of of them and sell the shells for a lot of money (well maybe not the ones who catch are the ones who make the money, but all the intermediaries.

 

Albert

[rick12]

Paul I thought they fed Paris Hilton's dog to the goby? Errrrr, maybe it was fed blackworms to the dog?.....can't remember

How I keep fish healthy.

Now these are things "I" do to keep fish healthy, not what I think "you" should do, or what my GrandMother did so these are "My" opinions, "my" practices and methods.

I read so many posts about diseases, fish disappearing, dying, turning colors etc. and I scratch my head and can't figure out why.

I know many people quarantine, and think they feed well, have fantastic parameters, hand pick their fish, read to them and most of them report that the fish died in a few weeks from one of many malady's.

This should not be. Most of the fish that we normally keep should live at least ten years, and that is a minimum. Even a simple goldfish can live over fifty years, and thats a goldfish. I have no idea how long fish live but I have had a few fish live over 19 years, two as a matter of fact but many of my older fish I gave away or donated to public aquariums.

So I feel there is a problem in the way many people keep fish. If you are interested I will tell you what "I" do to keep fish healthy and spawning.

If you are not interested, you wasted your time and mine by reading this first paragraph.

Keeping fish in perfect health has always been a goal of mine and after killing many fish, I have it down to a science. It does take some work so if you are real lazy, call up the people that wasted their time by reading this so far and do lunch.

 

I wrote about this many times but we are not fish, we are not like fish, we don't have the same digestive system as a fish and we certainly don't have a fishes immune system which is in some respects, actually better than ours. Why is that?

Well first of all a fish "breathes: water and extracts oxygen through it's gills, (yes we all know that) but the water is actually an extension of the fishes circulatory system. Bet you didn't know that. Whatever is in the water, is in the fish. We breathe air and unless we live in a sewer, the air is cleaner than the water because microbes can't fly and eventually hit the ground. But microbes do swim as do paracites, bacteria, viruses, and probably Paris Hilton's dog.

A fish has evolved to repel most of these microbes. The slime on a fish is one means of protection as are scales. But the main defense of a fish is it's immune system which works great, in the sea. Not so much in a tank. Why is that?

Well this is where the problem comes in and why there are so many posts about diseases. Probably 85% of posts are about sick fish.

Many people feel that if they offer a fish a varied diet, that is the best thing for a fish, right? Wrong.

Fish don't need a varied diet, they need what they were designed to eat and each type of fish needs a different diet. But there is one thing almost all fish need and that is fresh, unprocessed food. Flakes, pellets and many frozen foods don't fit the bill although a fish can live for many years on that food.

 

But do you want your fish to live, or do you want it to thrive?

There is a big difference. If your fish get, or have ever gotten ich, they are not thriving. If they get fungus, they are not thriving, if they die before ten or twenty years, they are not thriving (that is fish that will live that long, not seahorses, pipefish or many small gobies)

Fish in the sea rarely get sick. In my 40 or so years of diving I can't remember seeing a sick fish. But in tanks a large percentage of them just look lousy and if you ever saw fish in the see you will notice a big difference between them and a fish in a tank.

OK anyway, this is what I do. Every day my fish get some live food. They get live blackworms and new born brine shrimp. The baby brine shrimp is only because I have a lot of smaller fish and gorgonians. New born brine shrimp are very nutritious due to their yock sack, but they only have it for a short while so you need to feed them as soon as they hatch.

I have been using live blackworms for over fifty years and that is how I get my mandarins, bangai cardinals and fireclowns to spawn.

Also every day they get clams and mysis. That is almost the extent of their diet. Clams are much better than shrimp, octopus, scallop or squid because you are feeding the entire animal and the nutrition is in the guts, not the muscle which is all you are feeding with those other foods.

When a fish eats another fish you will notice that they eat the belly and guts first. They know where the nutrition is.

Frozen mysis are good (as a suppliment) but they are mostly shell which has no nutrition because their shell is not calcium like a fish skeleton is.

Clams contain calcium in their guts.

I discovered blackworms for salt water fish in 1972 when I was keeping blue devils which were the only fish available except for domino's.

The fish would live but were always getting ich. After feeding live worms for 3 weeks, one of the 7 blue devils changed to a darker blue and he became a male. The 6 females started to get fat and he started to breed with them. The eggs always hatched, and that was 40 years ago.

I have been using live worms ever since.

If it were not for blackworms I don't think I would stay in this hobby.

Anyway, a spawning fish is a healthy fish as it takes an enormous amount of energy and extra nutrition to develop eggs that could be almost half the fishes weight.

Spawning fish are in the healthiest condition a fish could be in and that is the condition fish in the sea are always in. Spawning fish do not get ich. In my experience anyway. I personally do not have to quarantine and I have no use of a hospital tank because I know my fishes immune system will protect them.

Yes I hear all the time my tank is a time bomb and soon it will get ich and I will lose all my fish. That may be, but I can determine the health of my fish from across the room and I can (but do not) put a fish in my tank with obvious ich and nothing will happen.

DON'T do that, and if you don't have my tank, keep quarantining. It takes years to get to that point and I don't advocate that you change your practices, but wouldn't it be nice if your fish were protected from these things and could live ten or twenty years?

I also have an automatic feeder on the tank which dispenses soft pellets that I add fish oil to. I am big on fish oil (I even take it myself) and feel it is woefully missing in all commercially sold foods as it doesn't store well and goes bad in the presence of oxygen. To me fish oil is one of the most important things and live worms contain oil. I doubt there would be any decent oil in freeze dried foods. When a fish develops eggs, most of those eggs are almost all oil. A fiahes liver could be a quarter of it's weight and it is almost all oil.

Of course the best food for fish is whole fish because they get the oil, calcium and nutrients in the exact proportions that they need, but tiny fresh fish are not sold for fish food which is a shame. I have spoken to "Ocean Nutrition" about this but they don't seem interested.

Again, these are the things "I" do. I didn't say "you" should do them so if you feel differently, don't argue with me. Start your own thread and call it "Paul B doesn't know a worm from Paris Hilton's Dog" or something to that effect because this is only what"I" do. I also run a UG filter but lets not talk about that right now.

 

I have also put this picture on here numerous times, so If you saw it already, go read a book. I didn't take this picture, my closest friend a ddive partner took it in the Caymans (I think)

To the left of the nurse shark are fish fry. That is the main food of reef fish and they eat them every day. Whole fish, or whole worms are the best thing you could feed fish.

These fry are all over the place in the sea as healthy fish spawn continousely, all year.

 

[rick12]

The baby turtles that you refer to are red eared sliders, there was really nothing wrong with the turtles but people kept them in filthy conditions and kids were putting them in their mouth and getting sick, like Duh. If you are a parent what is the first thing you would let your kid put in his mouth? A filthy turtle who is wallowing around in ten day old turtle poop.

 

Those are freshwater turtles, but the ones that were sold in Aquarium Stock Company in Manhattan were green sea turtles which can get as large as Govenor Christie. They have no reason to be in a fish tank and will not live very long.

They were banned from selling them because all sea turtles are protected. In the US anyway, in some places they are just called lunch.

 

I know a place here in NY where I can find diamond backed terripins which are salt water turtles that were (and still are) used as food. They are also protected as they should be.

 

I was never really fascinated too much by Turtles except the 300+ year old ones they have at the Antwerp Zoo but that was over 30 years ago but since they seem to live for so long they are probably still there.

 

I did remember something about those little ones you mention and yes I fully agree .. the sticking them in their mouths is more than likely what made the kids sick, but I thought they had some parasites too, but I could be wrong .. as I have been known to be ...

 

Of course as you say in many countries they eat them, or make soup of of them and sell the shells for a lot of money (well maybe not the ones who catch are the ones who make the money, but all the intermediaries.

 

Albert

When I was a kid the turtles were free if you purchased a bowl

Today the local LFS sells these tiny red ear sliders for $100

[albertthiel]

How I keep fish healthy.

Now these are things "I" do to keep fish healthy, not what I think "you" should do, or what my GrandMother did so these are "My" opinions, "my" practices and methods.

I read so many posts about diseases, fish disappearing, dying, turning colors etc. and I scratch my head and can't figure out why.

I know many people quarantine, and think they feed well, have fantastic parameters, hand pick their fish, read to them and most of them report that the fish died in a few weeks from one of many malady's.

This should not be. Most of the fish that we normally keep should live at least ten years, and that is a minimum. Even a simple goldfish can live over fifty years, and thats a goldfish. I have no idea how long fish live but I have had a few fish live over 19 years, two as a matter of fact but many of my older fish I gave away or donated to public aquariums.

So I feel there is a problem in the way many people keep fish. If you are interested I will tell you what "I" do to keep fish healthy and spawning.

If you are not interested, you wasted your time and mine by reading this first paragraph.

Keeping fish in perfect health has always been a goal of mine and after killing many fish, I have it down to a science. It does take some work so if you are real lazy, call up the people that wasted their time by reading this so far and do lunch.

 

I wrote about this many times but we are not fish, we are not like fish, we don't have the same digestive system as a fish and we certainly don't have a fishes immune system which is in some respects, actually better than ours. Why is that?

Well first of all a fish "breathes: water and extracts oxygen through it's gills, (yes we all know that) but the water is actually an extension of the fishes circulatory system. Bet you didn't know that. Whatever is in the water, is in the fish. We breathe air and unless we live in a sewer, the air is cleaner than the water because microbes can't fly and eventually hit the ground. But microbes do swim as do paracites, bacteria, viruses, and probably Paris Hilton's dog.

A fish has evolved to repel most of these microbes. The slime on a fish is one means of protection as are scales. But the main defense of a fish is it's immune system which works great, in the sea. Not so much in a tank. Why is that?

Well this is where the problem comes in and why there are so many posts about diseases. Probably 85% of posts are about sick fish.

Many people feel that if they offer a fish a varied diet, that is the best thing for a fish, right? Wrong.

Fish don't need a varied diet, they need what they were designed to eat and each type of fish needs a different diet. But there is one thing almost all fish need and that is fresh, unprocessed food. Flakes, pellets and many frozen foods don't fit the bill although a fish can live for many years on that food.

 

But do you want your fish to live, or do you want it to thrive?

There is a big difference. If your fish get, or have ever gotten ich, they are not thriving. If they get fungus, they are not thriving, if they die before ten or twenty years, they are not thriving (that is fish that will live that long, not seahorses, pipefish or many small gobies)

Fish in the sea rarely get sick. In my 40 or so years of diving I can't remember seeing a sick fish. But in tanks a large percentage of them just look lousy and if you ever saw fish in the see you will notice a big difference between them and a fish in a tank.

OK anyway, this is what I do. Every day my fish get some live food. They get live blackworms and new born brine shrimp. The baby brine shrimp is only because I have a lot of smaller fish and gorgonians. New born brine shrimp are very nutritious due to their yock sack, but they only have it for a short while so you need to feed them as soon as they hatch.

I have been using live blackworms for over fifty years and that is how I get my mandarins, bangai cardinals and fireclowns to spawn.

Also every day they get clams and mysis. That is almost the extent of their diet. Clams are much better than shrimp, octopus, scallop or squid because you are feeding the entire animal and the nutrition is in the guts, not the muscle which is all you are feeding with those other foods.

When a fish eats another fish you will notice that they eat the belly and guts first. They know where the nutrition is.

Frozen mysis are good (as a suppliment) but they are mostly shell which has no nutrition because their shell is not calcium like a fish skeleton is.

Clams contain calcium in their guts.

I discovered blackworms for salt water fish in 1972 when I was keeping blue devils which were the only fish available except for domino's.

The fish would live but were always getting ich. After feeding live worms for 3 weeks, one of the 7 blue devils changed to a darker blue and he became a male. The 6 females started to get fat and he started to breed with them. The eggs always hatched, and that was 40 years ago.

I have been using live worms ever since.

If it were not for blackworms I don't think I would stay in this hobby.

Anyway, a spawning fish is a healthy fish as it takes an enormous amount of energy and extra nutrition to develop eggs that could be almost half the fishes weight.

Spawning fish are in the healthiest condition a fish could be in and that is the condition fish in the sea are always in. Spawning fish do not get ich. In my experience anyway. I personally do not have to quarantine and I have no use of a hospital tank because I know my fishes immune system will protect them.

Yes I hear all the time my tank is a time bomb and soon it will get ich and I will lose all my fish. That may be, but I can determine the health of my fish from across the room and I can (but do not) put a fish in my tank with obvious ich and nothing will happen.

DON'T do that, and if you don't have my tank, keep quarantining. It takes years to get to that point and I don't advocate that you change your practices, but wouldn't it be nice if your fish were protected from these things and could live ten or twenty years?

I also have an automatic feeder on the tank which dispenses soft pellets that I add fish oil to. I am big on fish oil (I even take it myself) and feel it is woefully missing in all commercially sold foods as it doesn't store well and goes bad in the presence of oxygen. To me fish oil is one of the most important things and live worms contain oil. I doubt there would be any decent oil in freeze dried foods. When a fish develops eggs, most of those eggs are almost all oil. A fiahes liver could be a quarter of it's weight and it is almost all oil.

Of course the best food for fish is whole fish because they get the oil, calcium and nutrients in the exact proportions that they need, but tiny fresh fish are not sold for fish food which is a shame. I have spoken to "Ocean Nutrition" about this but they don't seem interested.

Again, these are the things "I" do. I didn't say "you" should do them so if you feel differently, don't argue with me. Start your own thread and call it "Paul B doesn't know a worm from Paris Hilton's Dog" or something to that effect because this is only what"I" do. I also run a UG filter but lets not talk about that right now.

 

I have also put this picture on here numerous times, so If you saw it already, go read a book. I didn't take this picture, my closest friend a ddive partner took it in the Caymans (I think)

To the left of the nurse shark are fish fry. That is the main food of reef fish and they eat them every day. Whole fish, or whole worms are the best thing you could feed fish.

These fry are all over the place in the sea as healthy fish spawn continousely, all year.

 

 

Wow that is quite a contribution Paul, thanks for posting it, and I wanted to make some remarks (positive ones), but i am in the midst of changing graphics and Images for the e-versions of the book, from RGB to CMYK format in Photoshop, which I finally got together with a few other Adobe programs on their Cloud whatever service, that is a monthly subscription one, so I got most of their real high end programs for $29.99 a month ...

 

I still can't believe that they have that available. Some of those programs cost 500 and 600 and 700 or more ... and they are all the CS6 versions with free upgrades for as long as I pay the $29.99 a month ... anyone who needs high end software that is the way to go. I even got Dreamweaver, Flash, plus a number of others. Check it out on Adobe.com and if you are a student you can get it for $19.99

 

Anyway I need to convert the images and also increase the DPI of them which makes them smaller in size but better for viewing in the e-versions but it is a lot of work ... so I have to continue with that ... and then place them back in inDesign in the correct format. Not a big deal but time consuming as the book has so many images in it.

 

On feeding though ... I do want to add that right now next to me lying on my desk is a 1/2 Little Neck that I am going to start feeding the fish and coral in a little bit ... no blackworms sorry ... have not found them yet .. and yes I have fish oil.

 

Albert

[eitallent]

Paul,

Thank you for taking the time to write about how you keep your fish healthy. It makes so much common sense, why isn't it more common practice? Because feeding live blackworms, clams and newly hatched brine shrimp does not make big companies much money and it is too much work for most busy people. I think the clams, placed in the freezer, and shavings fed to the fish is not time consuming. Perhaps at least the clam idea will take hold for the welfare of the fish.

 

Keep on keepin' on Paul.

 

BTW I never saw my fish as excited about food as when I started feeding the hatched brine shrimp!

[albertthiel]

I want to try feeding live black worms, how do I get started? Also, I want to buy one of those feeders.

 

I am sure Paul will get you some info on that but finding live ones is what the problem usually is but you may want to call around stores in NY where I believe you live. I used to deal with a guy who owned about 7 of them, not sure whether he is still around but he had stores downtown, in Brooklyn, uptown, and in Queens and a few other places. Not sure of the name anymore but it could have been World Class Aquarium or something similar and he used to carry a lot of stuff that other stores did not.

 

Not too sure on well they ship because as Paul said in another message if a few die en route from wherever they come from, the whole batch will be fouled up ... so maybe you need to find flash frozen ones ... I am sure Paul will have some more advice on that. I have not been able to find any here in Atlanta (greater ATL).

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Paul,

Considering busy lifestyles of many today, their tanks are not their full time job. Does quick frozen Pe Mysis and Cyclop-Eeze constitute a complete diet? I liked your point about supplying diet for a specific fish. I often set up mono specific tanks and provide multiple nutrient pathways to provide complex food webs.

Patrick

 

Patrick : Yes you do have a point of course but IME once you have the clams or mussels or some other shell fish and you freeze them, shaving off some slivers to feed the fish and maybe target feeding some of the corals should IMO not take all that much time. In fact I know it does not as I have now been using the Clams for a while.

 

I do use the frozen Cyclop-eeze and just use a little maybe once a week as the fine particles spread all over the tank and everything in it can trap some of them and of course the fish go wild over it, even the carnivores and even though the defrosted food when added to the tank is a whole bunch of real small particles. But they all go for it.

 

I use the Mysis from time to time too (PE) and my Banggai is the one who seems to get most of it as he dashes around to get the morsels.

 

It is when I feed the Clam slivers that all the fish get their fair share though as no one fish can be fast enough to get to all the pieces I put in the water.

 

And when I target feed corals I use a plastic cone over them to prevent the fish and snails from "stealing" the food.

 

And all of that seems to work well for me and does not really that all that much time.

 

Albert