NanoTopia's ZEOvit 80L [ ]

[Nano sapiens]

Great video and your stags are growing like crazy!

 

Having just got back from Palau, I can attest to how much high flow most of the the Acropora dominated areas were receiving. Interestingly, I did find a few lower flow lagoons with huge areas covered by just one or two Acro species, so there are odd exceptions to every rule.

[metrokat]

#32. Too much or too aggressive carbon, tissue thins and begins to STN. Mystery cause because you can't test for it.

Hey Christine, I took the quote above from Roger's thread. Would you mind elaborating on this a bit?

 

And may I place an advanced order for a copy of your book?

[NanoTopia]

Hey Christine, I took the quote above from Roger's thread. Would you mind elaborating on this a bit?

 

And may I place an advanced order for a copy of your book?

Yes Kat, No book, maybe one day, if/when I do however, you get a free copy , LOL.

 

Running too much carbon or an aggressive carbon can thin coral tissue, decrease PE, decrease colours, and remove too many trace elements from the system. SPS corals will look dry when removed from the water, not slimy as they should be. Corals also become more susceptible to infection/disease/pests as their slime protective coating is reduced or removed completely. If coral tissue is thinned extensively STN can occur, from the base or other areas of the coral.

[TheKleinReef]

Yes Kat, No book, maybe one day, if/when I do however, you get a free copy , LOL.

 

Running too much carbon or an aggressive carbon can thin coral tissue, decrease PE, decrease colours, and remove too many trace elements from the system. SPS corals will look dry when removed from the water, not slimy as they should be. Corals also become more susceptible to infection/disease/pests as their slime protective coating is reduced or removed completely. If coral tissue is thinned extensively STN can occur, from the base or other areas of the coral.

 

maybe i should have never switched carbons...

[metrokat]

In your experience does an ALK swing cause STN or RTN? And is the swing that causes it a high ALK or low?

[NanoTopia]

In your experience does an ALK swing cause STN or RTN? And is the swing that causes it a high ALK or low?

 

There is no exact definition for "RTN's" time duration but I would say RTN if the swings are frequent and fast. Keeping ULNS with high alkalinity usually ends up being STN from the base in my experience. You can get away with high alkalinity if you are not running ULNS in most cases. All corals are different and come from different sources so it can be difficult to predict what stresses any given coral can tolerate. Maricultured corals are the least tolerant of high alkalinity (above 7.5dKH) and or swings in alkalinity. Aquacultured corals can often tolerate more stress and handle higher alkalinity (or conditions in general) much better.

 

The swing is the change both high and low. Basically you are asking a coral to adjust to different levels of alkalinity repeatedly, up-down-up-down. This is a huge stress on corals. I will say that the increase however, is much more stressful on a coral. I learned this first hand when transferring SPS frags from a system that keeps NSW level alkalinity (~7.0dKH) to a system that kept high alkalinity (~10dKH). The result was dramatic, complete RTN in 3 days. High alkalinity to low alkalinity will not cause a problem in most cases from my experience, but it can stress a coral.

 

I think it's important to understand that maricultured corals come directly from NSW parameters (where they evolved for millions of years), plopping them into a system with elevated alkalinity (and other non-NSW parameters) is often too much shock for them to handle and sooner of later they STN. This is why Aquacultured corals fair much better in our aquariums, they have already had time to adjust to artificial reef conditions. I see people having a great deal of success with the Aquacultured pieces, I know I have.

 

We are human, we always want to push the limits with everything, it comes natural to us. This is why some people have difficulty keeping SPS corals, you simply cannot push corals this way, they can be trained over time to tolerate more stresses but you really have to go slow and be patient. I say, when in doubt, do as nature has done for more than a million years successfully.

 

Of course there are exceptions to every rule Kat, this is what makes keeping SPS such a challenge at times.

[metrokat]

I think all corals and reef systems have a trigger point or a max stress point. You reach it and boom. This trigger is different for each hobbyist. Thanks for your detailed reply.

[NanoTopia]

maybe i should have never switched carbons...

 

When you say switch carbons are you talking brand? Some carbons are more efficient or aggressive at removing materials from the water than others. If you switch to a more aggressive carbon than what you have previously used I would half the amount you normally use for the first change and observe how corals react.

 

General rule I like to follow is 1mL of carbon per Litre of water if run passively, changed once a month. If you run the carbon in a reactor, I would half that amount and change it every two weeks. So an average nano tank of 20 gallons (80L) net water would run no more than 80mL of carbon passively in a bag.

 

I think all corals and reef systems have a trigger point or a max stress point. You reach it and boom. This trigger is different for each hobbyist. Thanks for your detailed reply.

I see people break the rules all the time with success, at least for a while. I like to go more conservative with corals, not a risk taker I guess

[TheKleinReef]

When you say switch carbons are you talking brand? Some carbons are more efficient or aggressive at removing materials from the water than others. If you switch to a more aggressive carbon than what you have previously used I would half the amount you normally use for the first change and observe how corals react.

 

General rule I like to follow is 1mL of carbon per Litre of water if run passively, changed once a month. If you run the carbon in a reactor, I would half that amount and change it every two weeks. So an average nano tank of 20 gallons (80L) net water would run no more than 80mL of carbon passively in a bag.

i went from 1cup of brightwell aquatics carbonit-p to 4 tbsp of BRS ROX.8 (also passive)

 

i removed it completely once i noticed the ULNS symptoms which was about a month or so ago.

[NanoTopia]

i went from 1cup of brightwell aquatics carbonit-p to 4 tbsp of BRS ROX.8 (also passive)

 

i removed it completely once i noticed the ULNS symptoms which was about a month or so ago.

 

60mL of ROX should not be an issue in 200+L net water if run passively. I would have kept the carbon in and increased amino acids and particulate food. Running a small amount of carbon helps remove toxins and yellowing compounds from the water. I see no need to remove it completely.

[TheKleinReef]

 

60mL of ROX should not be an issue in 200+L net water if run passively. I would have kept the carbon in and increased amino acids and particulate food. Running a small amount of carbon helps remove toxins and yellowing compounds from the water. I see no need to remove it completely.

Eh. I haven't noticed a difference in water clarity. I'll put it back next week when I'm home.

 

Could the removal have been my problem you think?

[NanoTopia]

Eh. I haven't noticed a difference in water clarity. I'll put it back next week when I'm home.

 

Could the removal have been my problem you think?

Possibly if you had toxins in the water.

[markalot]

Just catching up again, more great info, thanks for sharing with us.

 

Does your forest fire digi have any green on it at all? It's a goal of mine, and so far getting it just under 250 PAR seems to be the trick. Polyp extension not as good, but base is turning green. Go figure.

 

As fro the German Blue, I have been dosing Seachem Potassium for planted tanks and wow, blue polyps on my German Blue even though it is only under 260 or so PAR. I wouldn't say it was attractive, but better than the plain brown and whiteish fuzz it usually presents.

[TheKleinReef]

Possibly if you had toxins in the water.

 

to google! lol

[NanoTopia]

Just catching up again, more great info, thanks for sharing with us.

 

Does your forest fire digi have any green on it at all? It's a goal of mine, and so far getting it just under 250 PAR seems to be the trick. Polyp extension not as good, but base is turning green. Go figure.

 

As fro the German Blue, I have been dosing Seachem Potassium for planted tanks and wow, blue polyps on my German Blue even though it is only under 260 or so PAR. I wouldn't say it was attractive, but better than the plain brown and whiteish fuzz it usually presents.

Hi Mark,

 

My Forest Fire Digitata is a frag but starting to grow quite well, no green yet, I have no experience with this coral in the past so I will just wait to see what happens. I have it in high PAR right now, guessing 400+.

 

The ORA German Blue Digitata seems to only like high PAR (again 400+) in my tank. It has basically based out and attacked most of my corals, very aggressive, even attacking other montiporas etc. It has travelled 6 inches from the the original plug, I need to cut it back again or I will loose a stag of mine. More of an encrusting coral for me. I fragged it a few times and placed the frags higher in the tank, they are doing better than the colony is so I assume hight light is what they want, at least in my tank. Always good PE however, just not always colourful. Overall I would say it has done much better under T5 than it did under LED.

 

Looking at ORA website image (top), what it is intended to look like, I would say I'm (bottom) pretty close for colour appearance.

 

This is what they say:

Description: The ORA German Blue Polyp Digitata is a round tipped, branching Montipora coral with short, bright blue polyps and golden yellow to white growth tips. Requires intense light to maintain blue polyp coloration.

Placement: Middle – Top

Lighting: High

Flow: Moderate – Strong

[markalot]

Yea, the german blue is pretty invasive. Mine is not nearly as attractive as either the ORA photo or yours. More of a dull purple blue with a medium tan base. I've never liked it.

 

I will be following your Forest Fire with great interest.

 

 

It has taken me almost exactly one year to achieve anything but a bright white base. This does have a green glow under blue lights, but not nearly as intense as some I've seen. I was only able to darken the base by moving it under 250 PAR (T5 lights) and upping the feedings. Seeing the results under a ZEOvit system will be very interesting.

 

This is the goal, and I've seen better pictures than this.

 

[RollaJase]

That looks crazy cool.

[NanoTopia]

Yea, the german blue is pretty invasive. Mine is not nearly as attractive as either the ORA photo or yours. More of a dull purple blue with a medium tan base. I've never liked it.

 

I will be following your Forest Fire with great interest.

 

 

 

It has taken me almost exactly one year to achieve anything but a bright white base. This does have a green glow under blue lights, but not nearly as intense as some I've seen. I was only able to darken the base by moving it under 250 PAR (T5 lights) and upping the feedings. Seeing the results under a ZEOvit system will be very interesting.

 

This is the goal, and I've seen better pictures than this.

Hi Mark,

 

Well your monties look pale, have you checked K? , also might be trace elements, the kind not found in synthetic salts. Maybe just a little more amino acids in the water. In any case I think 260PAR is just a bit low for digitata sp. Try raising it up higher and see what happens.

 

This is my Forest Fire when I got it mid December, I don't have a recent picture of it but it has grown considerably. Polyps should be more red and I think only more intense light will bring green tips but I wait to see.

 

[PODPIMP]

FWIW I've had the forest fire digi in a few different tanks. It always did best in my tanks with a lot of fish and feeding. It seems to need that dissolved waste level to maintain the green. In my lower nutrient tanks, especially my 34 solana with T5's, it never showed green. This was true for any green highlighted coral IME.

[NanoTopia]

FWIW I've had the forest fire digi in a few different tanks. It always did best in my tanks with a lot of fish and feeding. It seems to need that dissolved waste level to maintain the green. In my lower nutrient tanks, especially my 34 solana with T5's, it never showed green. This was true for any green highlighted coral IME.

This is what I figured regarding nutrients, I figure one could substitute amino acids for a lightly fish stocked tank. Rich, what's your experience with PAR on the Forest Fire, are you keeping it high in the tank for best colour?

[PODPIMP]

I hate to sound like a preacher but IME amino acids don't equal the color benefit of fish poop Sounds funny but I believe it is true. I never had a par meter so I don't know numbers. Since it was a monti, I always placed it somewhere in the lower 3rd of the tank, sometimes indirect light. I don't believe it to be a high light coral at all.

 

How many fish do you have in your reef? I only saw one wrasse in the video.

[NanoTopia]

I hate to sound like a preacher but IME amino acids don't equal the color benefit of fish poop Sounds funny but I believe it is true. I never had a par meter so I don't know numbers. Since it was a monti, I always placed it somewhere in the lower 3rd of the tank, sometimes indirect light. I don't believe it to be a high light coral at all.

 

How many fish do you have in your reef? I only saw one wrasse in the video.

I think were keeping quite different tanks, but I agree fish poop is good. Most nano tank owners do not have a lot of fish so fish poop is at a minimum. With this and all the aggressive filtration used these days, most nano tanks are nitrate starved. I have one wrasse in my 80L but feed amino acids and trace elements frequently with good results on coloration. I think Montipora digitata can do well in diverse lighting conditions, one or the reasons why it is considered a fairly easy coral to keep. I prefer to keep my monties mid to high in the tank for best colour and growth using T5. However, depending on the the light source and intensity this can be a vague way of describing placement of a coral. In a nutrient poor (Zeovit) tank like mine, digitata do better higher on the rock for me, I get better colour and growth. In a tank with higher dissolved nutrients and maybe higher alkalinity as well, I can see monties doing just fine lower down in the tank because they would not require as much light for energy.

 

So I now have a marketing idea Rich, "Fish Poop in a Can" feed your corals the best !

 

[PODPIMP]

That's a great idea! Probably a pretty gross job collecting all the poop though

 

 

I agree with you on all points and experience the staved nano reef Looking back at my 34 solana I wish i experimented a little more with my fish stocking. I would have loved to add a coupe helfrichi firefish, another wrasse, and a yasha goby in there. I think my colors and coral health would have been much better with more of a DOC level. Oh well, just speculation now.

[markalot]

FWIW I've had the forest fire digi in a few different tanks. It always did best in my tanks with a lot of fish and feeding. It seems to need that dissolved waste level to maintain the green. In my lower nutrient tanks, especially my 34 solana with T5's, it never showed green. This was true for any green highlighted coral IME.

 

Thanks for chiming in. If you hadd issues with the green base then I'm in trouble. I will probably be adding one more fish in my 40 next month to help increase the poopation factor. I do dose Brightwell Amino stuff every other day. i see increased polyp extension but not much else. My real color burst (such that it is) came from Reef Roids, Kent Coral Accel, and generally heavier feeding.

[NanoTopia]

Red Planet


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