uglyfish 65g sps tank

[Marteen]

The beauty of the liquid dosing is that now I can limit my carbon source to raise no3 and po4. You can't stop or slow down biopellets.

 

That's not true actually. With a recirculating reactor you can limit the output flow of the reactor to reduce the amount of water entering and exiting the system while still maintaining a good tumble. Personally I didn't like the CADlights recirculating reactor that you had. I felt the output was too large and allowed for uncontrollable introduction of tank water. In a good recirculating reactor you should have a closed loop system with a single 1/4" output regulated by a ball valve and a single 1/4" input which is regulated by the output. Since the system will be constantly outputing a regulated amount of water from the reactor it will be inputting that same amount from your tank. This allows you to control how much you feed the bacteria in the BP reactor. The CADlight conic system just didn't seem to allow that kind of control with it's large output opening and T junction which seemed to just let water flow wherever it wanted if you restricted flow on the output.

 

I've also read that BP reactors consume a lot of potassium and these levels need to be checked and maintained. I've heard people have had a lot of long term success with recirculating reactors, but I have also heard a lot of stories similar to yours for people who used unrestricted BP reactors.

[markalot]

I have been reading Book of Coral Propagation, Volume 1 Edition 2: Reef Gardening for Aquarists, was a daily deal offer from MarineDepot. He notes that most run tanks to achieve maximum polyp extension which is not always what's best for the corals. I wonder if this has something to do with it as well? So many people with what I would consider to be SPS friendly systems are having repeated issues with SPS health.

 

No clue if color can be tied lack of nutrients in the water or not.

[jedimasterben]

No clue if color can be tied lack of nutrients in the water or not.

From a couple of articles I've read, it can be in some cases. I can't remember where the link went, but I think it was from Advanced Aquarist, but I'll have to search around for it.

 

EDIT: found it. http://reefbuilders.com/2008/09/03/guide-o...e-vivid-bright/

[uglyfish]

It talks indeed about some pigments not needing strong light to 'shine through', so-to-speak. Pigments are a defense mechanism that helps prevent too much light (and certain wavelengths of light) from damaging the coral. Some pigments can take more of a beating than others before giving way, but then again, this deals with the wavelengths they absorb, a PAR measure is not truly enough. For instance, I can blast a coral all day with 400mE of PAR of only blue wavelengths, but will kill it if I swap out 100mE of that for red light if the pigments that absorb red light are overwhelmed.

 

LEDs are particularly difficult to get a measure of light from just looking at them - as by their nature, they are bright pretty much no matter what. I can evenly light my tank using six 3w LEDs, and it will appear very bright, but PAR would be pretty dismal throughout.

 

If a pigment absorbs red, it would reflect cyan - so by that rationale, are you saying cyan coral pigments need red light to grow?

 

We're making a huge assumption here - that pigments themselves are photosynthetic. How do we know they're not a byproduct of other, unrelated photosynthetic reactions? (let me clarify...)

 

An apple is red. But the red pigment in the apple has nothing to do with photosynthesis. The red in the apple is a byproduct of the photosynthesis occurring in the leaves, and the nutrients being absorbed by the roots. The green leaves produce sugars etc... to make the fruit, which happens to be red.

 

I think that's where the unknown factors come in. What part of the coral is responsible for producing pigments? How do we stimulate further pigment creation?

[uglyfish]

That's not true actually. With a recirculating reactor you can limit the output flow of the reactor to reduce the amount of water entering and exiting the system while still maintaining a good tumble. Personally I didn't like the CADlights recirculating reactor that you had. I felt the output was too large and allowed for uncontrollable introduction of tank water.

 

I had that reactor tweaked - believe me - I tried. I paid $200 for it. I really WANTED it to work. I had the output on the reactor down to a trickle. I was putting very very low flow though the reactor. So low that if I raised the tube 4" off the surface of the water, the flow stopped completely.

 

The problem is less with the ability to stop and start the biopellets and more with the quality of the carbon source. And that some form of carbon is released in the entire system, from the pellets. The reaction occurs thoughout the system, not just in the reactor. (this is all speculation - just an opinion based on by observations - just like everything I write)

 

I have been reading Book of Coral Propagation, Volume 1 Edition 2: Reef Gardening for Aquarists, was a daily deal offer from MarineDepot. He notes that most run tanks to achieve maximum polyp extension which is not always what's best for the corals. I wonder if this has something to do with it as well? So many people with what I would consider to be SPS friendly systems are having repeated issues with SPS health.

 

No clue if color can be tied lack of nutrients in the water or not.

 

I have that book! Yeah, wicked PE could be an indicator of starvation? Maybe.

[uglyfish]

Ugly, Violets are in this weird zone where you can barely tell if they're on if you're running other lights at the same time, but really do influence total coloration.

 

This is the impression I get. I think you may be right.

[uglyfish]

From a couple of articles I've read, it can be in some cases. I can't remember where the link went, but I think it was from Advanced Aquarist, but I'll have to search around for it.

 

EDIT: found it. http://reefbuilders.com/2008/09/03/guide-o...e-vivid-bright/

 

I've read this article a few times. Look at the first comment on the article, lots of interesting points are made. I think they're both right to some extent.

 

 

Thanks to all for the comments and help! All input is appreciated.

[Marteen]

I had that reactor tweaked - believe me - I tried. I paid $200 for it. I really WANTED it to work. I had the output on the reactor down to a trickle. I was putting very very low flow though the reactor. So low that if I raised the tube 4" off the surface of the water, the flow stopped completely.

 

The problem is less with the ability to stop and start the biopellets and more with the quality of the carbon source. And that some form of carbon is released in the entire system, from the pellets. The reaction occurs thoughout the system, not just in the reactor. (this is all speculation - just an opinion based on by observations - just like everything I write)

 

No I understand, I'm just saying I think the CADlights recirculating reactor design was flawed itself. None of the DOCs from the carbon sloughing off should have reached your system, in theory they should have been picked up immediately by your skimmer once they left the output. But the design of the CAD system, I felt, allowed DOC's to exit the system premature to the regulated output. I believe this is because they left the water input open instead of closing it and restricting it to the same diameter as the ouput. Because of this there was no internalizing pressure forcing water into the system at the same rate as the output. Instead large amounts of water were probable entering and exiting system through the input pipe. This would explain the cyano and your inability to regulate the bacterial colonies in the reactor.

 

Basically what I'm saying is, it wasn't your technique it was the equipment that failed you. Reef dynamics is supposed to make a good recirculating BP reactor or you could DIY one, if you ever feel inclined to try BP again.

[uglyfish]

Because of this there was no internalizing pressure forcing water into the system at the same rate as the output. Instead large amounts of water were probable entering and exiting system through the input pipe.

 

If your output is 10%, recirculate 90%, you have 10% incoming pressure from the input. Unless you're saying there's so much turbulence at the incoming T that some recirculating water is going out - against the flow of incoming water. Even if some water is leaking out the incoming line, the output feeds directly into the skimmer, do you think the skimmer is going to catch 100% of the outgoing bacteria or any carbon matter? The other questions is at what point does the biopellet break down to the point where it detaches from the granule and enters the system in a different form?

 

I read alot about carbon dosing - mainly because I was so frustrated at my failure to succeed with biopellets. I read some posts about biopellets going through stages of decomposition until they are in bioavailable form.

I had to do some searching to find where I read about biopellets vs. vinegar... Here it is, interesting read.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...1969&page=2

 

Here's another about the relationship between cyanobacteria and PHA (biopellets) - found by Albert Thiel

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...p;#entry4034709

 

Despite all my research against biopellets - some people still have success with them. So... who knows. (?)

[Marteen]

If your output is 10%, recirculate 90%, you have 10% incoming pressure from the input. Unless you're saying there's so much turbulence at the incoming T that some recirculating water is going out - against the flow of incoming water. Even if some water is leaking out the incoming line, the output feeds directly into the skimmer, do you think the skimmer is going to catch 100% of the outgoing bacteria or any carbon matter? The other questions is at what point does the biopellet break down to the point where it detaches from the granule and enters the system in a different form?

 

Yes, I definitely think the turbulence is too great at the T junction. They should have used a Y junction honestly. For the output flow I think a mistake that people make is not connecting the output line directly to the skimmer input. I've drilled a 1/4" fitting into the input line of my skimmer so I can be sure 100% of the output is making it into the skimmer. I suppose I could have drilled into the skimmer body but I didn't go that far.

 

I feel like any of the doc that escapes the input is going to have a detrimental effect on your system. Not only with the release of DOC's but with the release of large amount of free floating bacteria as well. I think this is the root cause of STN and tank crashes among people who use BP for their systems. I really feel that a closed loop recirculating system is the only way to go for this stuff.

[jedimasterben]

If a pigment absorbs red, it would reflect cyan - so by that rationale, are you saying cyan coral pigments need red light to grow?

 

We're making a huge assumption here - that pigments themselves are photosynthetic. How do we know they're not a byproduct of other, unrelated photosynthetic reactions? (let me clarify...)

 

An apple is red. But the red pigment in the apple has nothing to do with photosynthesis. The red in the apple is a byproduct of the photosynthesis occurring in the leaves, and the nutrients being absorbed by the roots. The green leaves produce sugars etc... to make the fruit, which happens to be red.

 

I think that's where the unknown factors come in. What part of the coral is responsible for producing pigments? How do we stimulate further pigment creation?

Not all pigments are photosynthetic - some are meant only to reflect or convert light to other wavelengths (which can then be caught by other pigments that absorb the new wavelengths). Some will, like you said, absorb cyan light and reflect red, it 'excites' the light coming and it changes the amount of energy it has.

 

As far as what produces this pigmentation, I have no idea, but the more spectra that you present to a coral, the more it will absorb and reflect, and I've had several corals morph in color over time, softies, LPS, and SPS alike.

[uglyfish]

Not all pigments are photosynthetic - some are meant only to reflect or convert light to other wavelengths (which can then be caught by other pigments that absorb the new wavelengths). Some will, like you said, absorb cyan light and reflect red, it 'excites' the light coming and it changes the amount of energy it has.

 

As far as what produces this pigmentation, I have no idea, but the more spectra that you present to a coral, the more it will absorb and reflect, and I've had several corals morph in color over time, softies, LPS, and SPS alike.

 

You make a good point about more spectrum. I'm on the hunt for violets...

 

I know there are green and red photosynthetic pigments from the chlorophyll in the zooxanthellae that make the coral look brown. I'm doing a good job at bringing out those pigments . Now I need to figure out how to get the other pigments to shine through.

[jedimasterben]

You make a good point about more spectrum. I'm on the hunt for violets...

 

I know there are green and red photosynthetic pigments from the chlorophyll in the zooxanthellae that make the coral look brown. I'm doing a good job at bringing out those pigments . Now I need to figure out how to get the other pigments to shine through.

I think I'm better at it than you.

 

For violets, http://shop.stevesleds.com/3-Watt-True-Vio...-TrueViolet.htm

[Spencer7]

Can you tell me anything about the stand? You build it? How much it cost?

 

-Thanks

[Paleoreef103]

I think I'm better at it than you.

 

For violets, http://shop.stevesleds.com/3-Watt-True-Vio...-TrueViolet.htm

Or you could just put a couple of Actinic 03 T5s on. I can't imagine DIYing some True violets onto a Radion... ( LEDgroupbuy has true violets as well )

[uglyfish]

Can you tell me anything about the stand? You build it? How much it cost?

 

-Thanks

 

I'm not an expert woodworker by any stretch... I was supposed to have it built for me, but it was going to take too long. So I decided to do it myself. The frame was some 2x4's and the cover is sheets of birch veneer plywood, I used 1x3 poplar for the trim. I inlayed a strip of brushed aluminum sheet on the front as an accent. I stained and used polyurethane varnish. It cost me about $150-$200.

 

If I had to do it again - I would have used only 1 2x4 on each post and use thinner plywood for the cover. I should have varnished the inside of the stand with a few coats of polyurethane to protect the wood from the moisture - and added more venting holes.

[uglyfish]

Or you could just put a couple of Actinic 03 T5s on. I can't imagine DIYing some True violets onto a Radion... ( LEDgroupbuy has true violets as well )

 

I know I'm going to add violet, but I may not be buying LEDS to do it. My problem is more about the LED light being too directional and not wrapping around the coral. Where the light touches coral, the colour is good. My coral is brown on the sides. I think I may be better off with the flatter light distribution of the t5s.

[Marteen]

I know I'm going to add violet, but I may not be buying LEDS to do it. My problem is more about the LED light being too directional and not wrapping around the coral. Where the light touches coral, the colour is good. My coral is brown on the sides. I think I may be better off with the flatter light distribution of the t5s.

 

You could try some ecoxotic stunner strips. They seem to have a pretty wide dispersal pattern, won't help grow coral but can add some nice colors.

[tran]

very impressive with this tank

good job

[uglyfish]

very impressive with this tank

good job

 

Thank you for the kind words.

 

I've gone back to feeding homemade food and I'm adding more clean up crew every week to try to keep organics under control with heavier feeding. Corals getting darker, a bit better colour, but still a long way to go. The fish love the fresh food - especially the anthias.

 

[jedimasterben]

I've gone back to feeding homemade food...

oooohhh do tell!

[uglyfish]

oooohhh do tell!

 

This batch... no fish roe (couldn't get it fresh).

 

6 cuttlefish, 8 fresh oysters, 6 fresh mussels, one third sheet of PE Mysis, half small bottle of DT phytoplankton, a good squirt of reef fuel, a tray of frozen rotifers

 

Blended very well and frozen, it made 3 10"x10" sheets in ziplock bags.

[heifinator]

Do you keep a top on this tank outside of taking pictures of it?

[jedimasterben]

This batch... no fish roe (couldn't get it fresh).

 

6 cuttlefish, 8 fresh oysters, 6 fresh mussels, one third sheet of PE Mysis, half small bottle of DT phytoplankton, a good squirt of reef fuel, a tray of frozen rotifers

 

Blended very well and frozen, it made 3 10"x10" sheets in ziplock bags.

Isn't Oyster Feast made of oyster eggs? That would be an alternative to fresh roe. But that looks tasty (to fish that is, I wouldn't even want to take a whiff!)!

 

My plan for mine was to mix fresh clam, squid, and shrimp with Oyster Feast, Fuel, Formula Two frozen, a crapload of Cyclop-eeze, and I'm undecided on phyto, as it breaks down when frozen.

[uglyfish]

Do you keep a top on this tank outside of taking pictures of it?

 

No top.

 

My plan for mine was to mix fresh clam, squid, and shrimp with Oyster Feast, Fuel, Formula Two frozen, a crapload of Cyclop-eeze, and I'm undecided on phyto, as it breaks down when frozen.

 

It really doesn't smell that bad. It smells like protein. You're right about the phyto cells bursting when frozen. I had forgotten about that... I'm not sure it helps all that much. I make it with what's available. I have to try clams next time. I feed this to my bta as well - because it's blended, I think it's easier to digest for the anemone.