Guys with minimalist scaping...

[jeff33702]

I've been out of the hobby for a bit but I previously understood that you needed to have enough rock to support the bacteria required for natural filtration. Many of the best looking tanks I've seen on here have minimal rock. How are you guys making that work? My first thought was to just add a bunch of rock to the sump, but I haven't noticed a lot of you guys doing that...

 

Did I miss something?

[altolamprologus]

My 20 gallon anglerfish tank has 9.5 pounds of rock, but I make up for it with 30 pounds of sand. I also have macro algae and a light bioload.

 

edit: I also don't have a sump or skimmer, just a HOB filter with floss.

[phattypeeps]

There are lots of different theories floating around here about how much live rock is needed for proper filtration. I have noticed that most people with minimalist scapes utilize very frequent water changes on top of other mechanical filtration.

 

There is no magic answer, it is just about finding the balance that works for your tank. I have been slowly removing rockwork from my tank over time as I add more coral and have had good results so far.

 

I've been out of the hobby for a bit but I previously understood that you needed to have enough rock to support the bacteria required for natural filtration. Many of the best looking tanks I've seen on here have minimal rock. How are you guys making that work? My first thought was to just add a bunch of rock to the sump, but I haven't noticed a lot of you guys doing that...

 

Did I miss something?

[jnelson]

Having very porous rock (as opposed to just dense base rock) is also useful. This way, you can have a minimal scape with more than enough surface area for the bacteria to flourish.

[jeff33702]

Having very porous rock (as opposed to just dense base rock) is also useful. This way, you can have a minimal scape with more than enough surface area for the bacteria to flourish.

 

Yeah - to me, surface area was always key. It seems like a good amount of surface area is a "buffer" of bacteria that can handle that extra feeding or dead snail. Going with a very low amount of rock worries me because that buffer seems very small and unable to combat any extra die off, feeding....but I still want that minimalist look. Right now, I'm leaning towards putting extra rock in my sump with some critters to keep it somewhat clean.

 

It seems like, while I've been out of the hobby, there have been at least 4-5 new methods pop up. I'm intrigued but also a member of the KISS club, so I'm going to have to think about all this ;0

[hooligan_78]

The problem with extra rock in your sump is that over time, can become a detritus trap. I would go with more macro, but that's just my opinion.

[Deleted User 6]

Light stocking = less rock. More frequent/larger water changes = less rock.

[jeff33702]

I had the opposite in mind for my next tank - more stock and moderate water changes

 

I guess I could just put the rock in the sump at the opposite end. Water will have been fed through a sock and the skimmer prior to getting to the rock = no detritus trap?

[lakshwadeep]

Light stocking = less rock. More frequent/larger water changes = less rock.

 

This. The normal recommendations of 1+ lbs per gallon give a cushion for relatively high stocking that can be common in nano tanks.

[Amphiprion1]

Keep in mind also that other things can act as an analog to live rock, such as a good amount of quality live sand (i.e. sand with animals in it). Having good plant growth can also decrease or eliminate the need for rock. My current 25g setup has absolutely no rock and just a lot of live sand and seagrass. Works plenty well with three small, but relatively active fish. I do have a protein skimmer, but I don't run it 24/7.

[M@!]

It seems like, while I've been out of the hobby, there have been at least 4-5 new methods pop up. I'm intrigued but also a member of the KISS club, so I'm going to have to think about all this ;0

Aint that the truth! I moved a couple times and my tank went neglected for a few years. I sold all my entire setup and figured I would be done for a while. A couple of months later I'm back and so many new options!

 

I also like minimal live rock and I'm putting together a 20L. My plan is to have a 10 gallon live sump. My live sump will have live rock for extra bacteria, but the plan is to trap the detritus and suck it out with weekly water changes. My hope is that the detritus will not stay around long enough to turn into nitrites/nitrates and I will not need macro algea. Thus cutting out a few steps in the cycle.

[HecticDialectics]

Nutrient import = nutrient export

 

I use a skimmer, a few extra pieces of LR in my sump (I think fuges are dumb), feed daily, and I don't do water changes.

 

All I did was cycle my rock correctly.

 

My skimmer barely even has anything to pull out. My tank could handle a third fish no sweat.

[M@!]

Nutrient import = nutrient export

 

I use a skimmer, a few extra pieces of LR in my sump (I think fuges are dumb), feed daily, and I don't do water changes.

 

All I did was cycle my rock correctly.

 

My skimmer barely even has anything to pull out. My tank could handle a third fish no sweat.

So where is the export?

[JaneG]

In my experience, using less than commonly recommended live rock is better for filtration, as it prevents dead spots common in tanks that use tons of it. As someone else said, it also helps to have porous rock, as it has more surface area.

[HecticDialectics]

So where is the export?

 

This wonderful thing called bacteria. Most people just have no idea how to set up a reef tank well.

[Amphiprion1]

This wonderful thing called bacteria. Most people just have no idea how to set up a reef tank well.

That sounds more like tight nutrient cycling than export. Not unless you are removing large quantities of bacteria during water changes. Marine systems, especially reefs, are quite good at very closely cycling available energy.

[MyLittleGremlin]

Hmmmm. My BioCube 29 plus 3 gal refuge with sandbed of less than 2 inches and Cheato is doing just fine with one piece of Ceramico Rock that is shaped like a Bonsai so it is min aquascaping on the sandbed.. I think it weighs like five or six pounds along with 15 lbs of live sand. Now I do have bio balls in the middle chamber and yes, they are cleaned reg. I also use the BioCube filter. My sandbed is clean and white . T5 six bulb lighting.

 

My bio load is light .... that is as to fish as I only have 2 Black and White Clowns. Assortment of snails and small crabs. Corals are mostly SPS so they are fed twice weekly and fish daily.

 

I do 10% water changes weekly. Do have a MP 10 added for good flow. So far... this has been the best setup I have ever come up with.

 

I have had this tank for over a couple of years... but with 30 lbs of live rock. I disliked all the crevices and the detrinus it seemed to collect due to dead spots from rock blocking the flow of water. I also had issues with a tough Brillo type algae turf which came from deep inside the rockwork. I was impossible to pull and it spread to some of my LPS.

 

To solve the algae issue after a year and a half of misery... I had to tear down my tank and start over. This time.... no Live Rock. Also, min aquascaping.

[Nanoized]

To solve the algae issue after a year and a half of misery... I had to tear down my tank and start over. This time.... no Live Rock. Also, min aquascaping.

 

Just did the same thing myself after suffering through the same type of Algae with a BC14.

Started over with some Arag Alive Fiji Pink Sand, Two Pc's of Aragonite Rock.

I plan on performing my weekly water changes and still use a phosphate remover and carbon, but if Algae starts again in about a year or two, I'm simply going to replace the rock/sand.

 

Keeping it simple.

[herranton]

This wonderful thing called bacteria. Most people just have no idea how to set up a reef tank well.

Sounds like a lot of work. Too much dosing. Noobs, do your water changes weekly, or more often.

[HecticDialectics]

Sounds like a lot of work. Too much dosing. Noobs, do your water changes weekly, or more often.

 

Unless you do massive water changes you never obviate the need for dosing.

 

The math is really simple as to why.

 

I think the part of my post everyone is missing is knowing how to properly cycle and set up a tank to begin with.

 

Too many people START OFF with algae. What a mess.

[herranton]

Unless you do massive water changes you never obviate the need for dosing.

 

The math is really simple as to why.

 

I think the part of my post everyone is missing is knowing how to properly cycle and set up a tank to begin with.

 

Too many people START OFF with algae. What a mess.

No, I get it. But the last thing we need is 50 threads in the beginners section saying "HD said I didn't need to do water changes and my tank crashed"

[M@!]

I think the part of my post everyone is missing is knowing how to properly cycle and set up a tank to begin with.

 

Too many people START OFF with algae. What a mess.

Do you have a post/thread that details your process?

[RayWhisperer]

While HD has a point, I tend to agree with Herranton on this.

 

As far as all those saying light, porous rock. I'm gonna go the opposite way. The denser the rock, the more anaerobic zone it has. Thus allowing denitrifying organisms area to colonize. Basically, a DSB or plenum in a rock. Yes, that's way over simplified. Now I'm not saying run out to the quarry and get the densest piece of limestone you can find. There has to be some sort of porous nature to it.

 

Believe it, or not. Nitrifying bacteria is colonized pretty much everywhere there is water flowing in your aquarium. It's on the glass, in the sand, in the surface areas of any rock, in the filter, especially the return tubes of any filtration system. All of our tanks have no shortage of that.

[kgoldy]

Unless you do massive water changes you never obviate the need for dosing.

 

The math is really simple as to why.

 

I think the part of my post everyone is missing is knowing how to properly cycle and set up a tank to begin with.

 

Too many people START OFF with algae. What a mess.

 

 

I thought my algae outbreak was extremely entertaining... Clowns hosting 8 inch tufts of hair alga was hilarious.

 

And WC's are overrated. Borrow a seahare for two weeks and you're good. Hahah.

 

(Don't actually do what I do. It goes against everything that's the norm in nano-reef world and therefore I'm upsetting the space time continuum by defying reality.)

 

 

 

Now for real- To address what Ray said... Very dense rocks don't necessarily harbor more of the anaerobic bacteria (than more porous rocks)- reason being- if there's no water movement, nutrient breakdown and gas exchange cannot physically happen. So there's no "food" in the core of dense rocks because there's no means for it to migrate there. The whole theory behind the Deep Sand Bed thing is that worms and other micro fauna actively pump water and nutrients down into the anaerobic zones... And without these small organisms to help move nutrients through the substrate, the DSB will fail to work as a nutrient extraction method. So, without a rock having "tunnels" for water to flow into and eventually get to the point of stagnation where it's stripped of all oxygen, a rock is essentially worthless as a nitrifyer.

 

That being said, I don't have the answer on how deep into a "live rock" water can go and still be effective reducing waste from ammonia to nitrogen gas... But I suspect that if you took a baseball sized piece of dry, dense rock, left it in your tank for a month, then took it out and cracked it in half, the core would still be somewhat dry- showing that all the mass of the middle of the rock was wasted space in your tank.

[HecticDialectics]

Do you have a post/thread that details your process?

 

It's pretty easy... cycle the rock in a bucket for two months with a heater and a powerhead. Every few days, blow the crap and debris off the rock with a powerhead. Then add the rock to the tank with fresh clean saltwater. Wait a week or two. Then add the sand. Wait another week... add fish and corals and enjoy.

 

I always enjoy watching the folks who cycle the rock with the sand in their tank already. How are you ever gonna get the rock clean? You're starting off with crap everywhere that you'll never get out of the sand.

 

No algae blooms. No algae problems. Coralline is a bigger problem on my glass than algae. It's great. Sometimes I do run a filter sock with carbon and gfo and stir up my sand bed and crank my MP10 up. That counts as nutrient export. Skimmer doesn't hurt. Extra rock in the sump is a plus. It's not rocket science.