Temperate/coldwater tanks

[mndfreeze]

My understanding is water left in a constant temp environment, like a 72 degree room assuming no other heat or cold sources like a vent, will stay at 72 water temp as well, correct?

 

So a chiller is required for even marine temperate tanks if my house is never colder then 70/72. (I live in the AZ desert, boo hiss!)

 

 

I was kind of thinking I want'ed a tidepool, cali coast style tank out of one of my small spares I will soon have after my reef upgrade.

 

Ideas and thoughts? Suggestions that don't involve a chiller. Spare tanks are a 20 tall and a 14 cube. House at most gets 74 in the summer (A/C ALWAYS RUNS HERE) In the winter the house will never get below 68 maybe. No need to even run the heater here on cold days but I would to keep the tank going, and can put a tank heater in as an option as well.

[AquaticEngineer]

It all depends on what your keeping.

 

The main thing is that you can keep it a constant temperature. I would use the 14 cube ( is it acrylic or glass?) and drill it for an Ice-probe. If you house temp is always a constant 68-74, the iceprobe should be able to knock it down just a bit, or make sure it stays in the high 60's constantly.

[mndfreeze]

Well the idea behind the post, specifically in this area, is to get an idea what I can keep, ideas for livestock that can handle lower then tropical temps, but not need a chiller to keep is insanely cold. \

 

 

Is there a specific type or brand of iceprobe I should look into?

[Jacobnano]

You also have to remember pumps and powerheads add heat as well, as do sources of light.

[AquaticEngineer]

You also have to remember pumps and powerheads add heat as well, as do sources of light.

 

QFT, Just run an LED fixture and use an external pump and you should eliminate most of the added head.

[Hero]

My understanding is water left in a constant temp environment, like a 72 degree room assuming no other heat or cold sources like a vent, will stay at 72 water temp as well, correct?

 

So a chiller is required for even marine temperate tanks if my house is never colder then 70/72. (I live in the AZ desert, boo hiss!)

 

 

I was kind of thinking I want'ed a tidepool, cali coast style tank out of one of my small spares I will soon have after my reef upgrade.

 

Ideas and thoughts? Suggestions that don't involve a chiller. Spare tanks are a 20 tall and a 14 cube. House at most gets 74 in the summer (A/C ALWAYS RUNS HERE) In the winter the house will never get below 68 maybe. No need to even run the heater here on cold days but I would to keep the tank going, and can put a tank heater in as an option as well.

 

One thing I can tell you is you definitely wont need a tank heater. If you're keeping tidepool animals I'm sure they will be able to deal with the winter drops, as long as they're not terribly extreme. You want to keep your tank around 70 degrees max; lower is preferable. The tidepools can get pretty warm in Southern California, but when the water comes back up it can also be very cold.

 

You're definitely in one of the right spots for questions. There's a great temperate group here.

[C-Rad]

If you don't have a chiller, the temp of your water will be room temp, plus about 1 to 10 degrees, depending upon how much heat your lights and pumps add. Minus 0 to 4 degrees depending upon how much evaporation you have. If you use a fan to cause lots of evaporation, and have a way to replace the water with clean freshwater (RO/DI), then you can get a noticeable cooling effect. If you use external pumps instead of submerged ones, and LED lights, and if you encourage evaporation, you'll probably have a water temp right around room temp, or maybe a degree or two below. Your next step would be to find out what animals will thrive between 69 and 74? Species that use light to make food, might require lighting that raises water temp (I can't say), so ask around. So Cal tide pool species will survive at that temp, but probably won't thrive. The big question is, where will you get your animals? Most people with temperate tanks collect their own animals, and 99.9% of what's available commercial is tropical, so will you have a source for animals that can live between 69 and 74 degrees?

 

Why are you against chillers? You run your AC all the time anyway, so you're not afraid of the electricity costs. As for the purchase price, you can probably find a good used chiller on CraigsList for a very affordable price. (my 1/4 HP JBJ Arctica cost me $250, and has run for about four years for me). Used 1/10 HP chillers are common, and if you insulate your tank, you should have no problem using one of those on a small tank to keep it as cold as you want.

[mndfreeze]

This is all a theory build at this point. I live in Phoenix, AZ in a horriffically insulated house, and get reamed on power every summer like you would not believe. I already do everything I can to limit power use except let my house get super fscking hot. I have socal about 6 hours away and know people on both coasts in various spots who would collect for me if I asked.

 

My understanding with the chiller is it works just like normal A/C units do, it uses freon to cool tubes, then vents the heat outside the chiller, meaning inside the house, meaning my house A/C now has to fight even harder. My house A/C is just BARELY enough to handle our summers. Every now and then on the 120 days it can't keep up and the house might rise to 76 for a few hours, but the tanks have never come close to raising a degree in that time.

 

I was trying to find a cheaper, less hardware required, simple but different tank for some day in the future. I love my reef but man, they all look the same now a days. ;/ cold water seems a to require a ton of stuff, like reef tanks. Temperate/shoreline/tide pool stuff seems to be able to handle swings better and would be easier for me to access.

 

Mostly this was tot how around ideas and you guys pulled through like I knew you would! This will be a longer term project if I go this route, perhaps when I move into a better insulated place to drop the power bills, and use that money towards cold water

[C-Rad]

If you set up a temperate tank with efficiency in mind, you can probably keep the electricity use to a level comparable to a traditional reef tank. The lights required for a reef tank use a lot of power, but the lights for a temperate tank can be regular old fluorescent lights that take very little power. If you insulate the bottom, back, and maybe one or both sides of your tank with an inch or more of Styrofoam, and put a double pan on the front, and uninsulated side(s), and if you use external instead of submersible pumps, then your chiller won't need to work very hard.

 

But to answer you first question, if you don't add much heat with lights and pumps, you could probably keep tide pool animals without a chiller.

 

I have that problem where my house AC needs to work more to cool the air that is warmed by my chiller. I read a thread somewhere about a guy in Phoenix who, with a little help from a Heating and AC guy friend, was converting window AC units to be run outside, and chill fish tank water instead of air. He was offering to do it for other people for a price. It involved running the refrigerant line indoors, and splicing in a titanium heat exchanger. It might only be practical for large tanks, but I liked that the bulk, noise, and heat created by the chiller was all outside, and small AC units can be had for less than $100 new, so it beats buying a big expensive new chiller. I think I'll keep my eyes open for a cheap broken chiller, from which I can steal the titanium heat exchanger. Then If I ever want to, I'll be ready to convert an AC unit and already have the most expensive part of the system on hand.