Hooligan's 40 Breeder

[hooligan_78]

I have a T and ball valve on return line, I was thinking of a T adapter on the end of the drain tube, I just found out that's what my friend did, essentially doing what NZR suggested; allowing the drain line to fill with more water and expelling less air.

[NewZealandReefie]

I've never had any problems but that's just my experience.

 

I've also got enough space in the top of my display that even if something went wrong and the over flow stopped/return continued, the return pump would run dry and turn off before the tank overflowed.

[Deleted User 6]

If your return pump is wide open, and the drain is completely unrestricted, would your display overflow?

[NewZealandReefie]

Nope, the overflow would just make noise. Kinda like a waterfall sound. Really annoying.

[Deleted User 6]

The issue with sticking a valve on the drain line is that if a snail, or some algae, or a fish, or one of a hundred other things gets caught in it, instant tank overflow.

[hooligan_78]

Small return chamber?

[Deleted User 6]

Nope, the overflow would just make noise. Kinda like a waterfall sound. Really annoying.

 

You need a stronger return pump then. You should have to restrict the pump's flow to keep the tank from overflowing ime. That's the only way to dial in the perfect amount of water flowing into the overflow.

[hooligan_78]

You need a stronger return pump then. You should have to restrict the pump's flow to keep the tank from overflowing ime. That's the only way to dial in the perfect amount of water flowing into the overflow.

 

Exactly. If my pump was on full boar, would easily overflow my tank. That's why I have another line ran off the return with a ball valve, plus it allows me to add more equipment. I'm looking at the BRS dual reactor.

[Deleted User 6]

Exactly. If my pump was on full boar, would easily overflow my tank. That's why I have another line ran off the return with a ball valve, plus it allows me to add more equipment. I'm looking at the BRS dual reactor.

 

So, how is your drain getting air in it?

[NewZealandReefie]

Mesh over the overflow intake = nothing gettin' in to block it up. Overflow box also has mesh around the top edges to help stop adventurous fish/snails.

 

My return runs through a chiller before getting back to the display.

 

CBF trying to explain this early in the morning lol. Maybe I'll take some pics of the set up and put them in my tank thread tonight when I get home.

[Deleted User 6]

I still say you need a stronger return pump and to ditch the valve on the drain. But it's your house/belongings/lives, not mine.

[hooligan_78]

So, how is your drain getting air in it?

 

I assume it's pulling from either the hole in the cap, or from the intake, it has a bit of a cyclonic effect going down. I've only got on 1/4" hole drilled in the cap now, which helped quite a bit. It's not as loud as it used to be, but every so often it blows bubbles in the sump.

[HecticDialectics]

Having to restrict the return pump is inefficient. Lrn2TankBuild

 

 

Nice tank Hooligan. 40B have always been one of my favorite borderline-nano tanks.

[NewZealandReefie]

I'm not disagreeing with you, yet, I'm just trying to work out in my head, early in the morning, if it could in fact overflow my tank if the overflow got blocked. I'm failing miserably.

 

All I see happening is... over flow stops because of blockage/whatever, return chamber of sump runs dry, return pump stops. No new water going to sump = no more water to return to display. As said, display can hold everything that's in the return chamber of the sump easily without overflowing. I'm working with a larger tank than a 40b though so maybe what I've done doesn't translate to a smaller system.

 

Anyhoo, Ima stop invading Hooligans thread now lol

[hooligan_78]

Thanks HD! And just to be clear, my return isn't restricted, I have a line running off with a ball valve going into the sump for now, didn't want to downgrade pump, plus no I have flexibility to add extras on later.

[HecticDialectics]

Thanks HD! And just to be clear, my return isn't restricted, I have a line running off with a ball valve going into the sump for now, didn't want to downgrade pump, plus no I have flexibility to add extras on later.

 

Oh I know, I meant that "Lrn2TankBuild" for dhaut not you.

[Deleted User 6]

Having to restrict the return pump is inefficient. Lrn2TankBuild

 

This is dumb.

[HecticDialectics]

I'm not disagreeing with you, yet, I'm just trying to work out in my head, early in the morning, if it could in fact overflow my tank if the overflow got blocked. I'm failing miserably.

 

All I see happening is... over flow stops because of blockage/whatever, return chamber of sump runs dry, return pump stops. No new water going to sump = no more water to return to display. As said, display can hold everything that's in the return chamber of the sump easily without overflowing. I'm working with a larger tank than a 40b though so maybe what I've done doesn't translate to a smaller system.

 

Anyhoo, Ima stop invading Hooligans thread now lol

 

Nevermind, I take it back dhaut. Restricting your only drain line is even stupider than having to restrict your return pump because you bought the wrong size.

[Deleted User 6]

All I see happening is... over flow stops because of blockage/whatever, return chamber of sump runs dry, return pump stops. No new water going to sump = no more water to return to display. As said, display can hold everything that's in the return chamber of the sump easily without overflowing. I'm working with a larger tank than a 40b though so maybe what I've done doesn't translate to a smaller system.

 

You left out "pump burns out and has to be replaced."

 

I'm talking about choking down the pump maybe 5-10%. Obviously you want to try to match the drain hole size with the pump as close as you can, but you're going to have to fine tune, which is where restricting the return pump comes in. Think of it as adding artificial head to the return line (giggity!).

 

I assume it's pulling from either the hole in the cap, or from the intake, it has a bit of a cyclonic effect going down. I've only got on 1/4" hole drilled in the cap now, which helped quite a bit. It's not as loud as it used to be, but every so often it blows bubbles in the sump.

 

Do you have a cap on the durso that you're drilling a hole in? If so, drill a bigger hole. If it's too big, just replace the cap (unless you glued it on...).

[NewZealandReefie]

Pump runs dry - shuts itself off...

[hooligan_78]

I bought 3 or 4 different caps and experimented with different hole sizes, the one I have now seems to work the best. I drilled smaller holes around it, didn't like, so just puttied the extras and problem was almost solved.

[Deleted User 6]

another thought - if you're going to run the dual reactor, do you have any mechanical filtration planned? my reactor gunked up really fast when i wasn't running floss or a sock.

 

Pump runs dry - shuts itself off...

 

you fancy austrians and your fancy pumps.

 

you still designed it wrong.

 

I bought 3 or 4 different caps and experimented with different hole sizes, the one I have now seems to work the best. I drilled smaller holes around it, didn't like, so just puttied the extras and problem was almost solved.

 

hmm...try opening up your return a bit more to let more water in. bring it to the very top of your overflow to see if the cyclone is restricted a bit.

[NewZealandReefie]

I bought it second hand and made the best of a badly designed system.

 

Herbie FTW. I'll never touch a durso again when I ditch this tank.

[disaster999]

if the whole system is designed right you should be able to run the return chamber dry and not flood the tank and not food the sump if the power is cut

 

with what hooligan_78 is experiencing, he couldnt get the right air to water mixture to flow into the drain. thats why he is getting the gurgling sound for a few then water just all of a sudden rushes down the pipe and the cycle starts all over again. reason for that happening is too much air is getting into the drain pipe and not enough water, so water starts to build up inside the overflow till eventually water level is high enough that the drain couldnt suck in anymore air, and its filled with water. gravity takes place and the drain acts like a syphon and the water is rushed down the drain all at once.

 

to fine tune this, you should drill the cap and fit an airline fitting, an airline tubing and a small valve for the airline so you can control the amount of air going into the drain. or you can do an herbie style drain and restrict the flow of the drain to match your return which to dhaut might sound stupid, but its the quietest type of drain. kinda a late right now, but to having it fool prove, you should have a back up drain incase it does overflow.

 

restricting the return to combat the issue will help to a certain degree, the flow will match the size of opening creating the perfect ratio, but that would be pointless if has to restrict it so much that only trickles water into the tank. or puts too much strain on the pump causing it to break prematurely or just cause too much racket. i have an QE pump before and with a restrictive return plumbing, the pump will make a lot of noise and caused a lot of wear on the shaft

[hooligan_78]

Actually, I solved the problem over the weekend. Changed the cap. Was thinking of doing what Disaster suggested as well, but for now. I have everything fixed. Also added an Eebli angel over the weekend. I'll take pics tonight and try to upload.