Getting rid of Dinoflagelates

[Fiesta_reef_time]

Hi all. I recently got an outbreak of Dinoflagelates. Mine are red and stringy. I tried to destroy it my breaking it up and destroying it from the sandbed, but I now see it is slowly making a comeback. I am certain that it is affecting a few heads of my hammer coral. Should I move my hammer coral? Will it still be able to recover?

 

And more importantly, how can I get rid of the Dinoflagelates ####?

 

Thanks.

[brandon429]

peroxide thread from the disease and pest forum just below this one on the main page

[Magiksurfman]

i have to figure this thing out too , are you dosing anything like iron or iodine i noticed mine came in after i dosed but i havnt dosed anything in the past 4 water changes and they're sticking around.

Just found this cant read it till tonight but it may help http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

 

*i cant use peroxide in my macro tank

[brandon429]

good call I forgot I was posting in this forum lol

 

treating rocks in another container is an option + rinsing if the pest hasnt spread tankwide yet

 

can you get us pics

[Fiesta_reef_time]

i have to figure this thing out too , are you dosing anything like iron or iodine i noticed mine came in after i dosed but i havnt dosed anything in the past 4 water changes and they're sticking around.

Just found this cant read it till tonight but it may help http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

 

*i cant use peroxide in my macro tank

 

It came around after I started dosing KH and PH. Is there really no way to get rid of this stuff? So far its only on my sandbed

[brandon429]

need tank pics to see what other livestock you have

 

if its only on the bed now, it will be relocating soon, to everywhere

[Fiesta_reef_time]

need tank pics to see what other livestock you have

 

if its only on the bed now, it will be relocating soon, to everywhere

 

You can see my tank's livestock in my signature link. The out break occured right in front of the hammer coral.

[ciedre]

Are you sure its dino and not cyano?....Sounds more like cyano, red stringy, only on sand.

 

http://www.reefcleaners.org/index.php?opti...4&Itemid=81

[Fiesta_reef_time]

Are you sure its dino and not cyano?....Sounds more like cyano, red stringy, only on sand.

 

http://www.reefcleaners.org/index.php?opti...4&Itemid=81

 

Ya, you are probably right, its only on my sand and its red and stringy. Is cyano just as harmful?

[Fiesta_reef_time]

Yep, just checked. It is def not dino and cyano for sure. Really hope cyano isn't as bad as dino though.

[brandon429]

nope cyano is way more common and less of a threat. usually just a powerhead adjustment, lucky u!

[ciedre]

No its not, you can get rid of it with regular large water changes, reducing phosphates and nitrates to 0.

 

Or if you're having real problems with it you can use things like chemi-clean or coral snow.

 

You must find and eliminate the cause of the cyano first, otherwise it will keep coming back.

[ciedre]

nope cyano is way more common and less of a threat. usually just a powerhead adjustment, lucky u!

 

 

errr no, water movement contrary to popular belief has very little to do with it.

 

1) What is cyano? Cyano bacteria…."Cyano" from the Greek meaning blue, and yes, they are bacteria… not real or "true" algae at all....See (i) below. It comes in different colours, red, brown, bluey/green....with/without bubbles forming. It looks like a slimy covering over the sand and rocks.

 

2) Myth 1, Cyano is fuelled by nitrates - Cyano doesn't directly feed on Phosphate or Nitrate. In fact cyano has the unique ability to be able to directly utilise nitrogen, whilst in its gaseous form. Cyano is the only living organism capable of this. Hmmm....Nitrogen......have you noticed how cyano likes to live on the sand? Sand beds tend to be denitrifying, which is a process whereby bacteria strip the O3 from NO3 to then respirate and release the N as N2 gas. As this percolates through the sand, guess what is there to grab it?

 

Although Cyano utilises nitrogen, they’re actually fuelled by DOCs, dissolved organic (carbon) compounds, not specifically phosphates and nitrates, hence why you can have zero nitrate and phosphate readings and still have cyano.

 

3) Myth 2, direct more flow at the cyano - Flow has no bearing on cyano directly, but it does help reduce the gas boundary layer around the cyano, thus making gas exchange better. This in turn supplies more oxygen to the cyano, which depresses the cyano (Higher Redox has the same effect, which is why ozone is helpful). Good flow also helps to prevent detritus settling in dead spots which can be a source of DOC.

 

4) Light - Light is essential for growth and green and yellow light seem to produce most growth, and red is reflected, which is why just using actinic depresses cyano. The quality, quantity and duration of useful wavelengths of light are most important in determining the health of beneficial algae and by corollary, disfavouring Cyano. Also as bulbs age, they can change slightly at certain wavelengths, which can contribute to nuisance algae’s. So changing you bulbs i.a.w with manufactures timescales is advisable.

 

5) Instability and chemical changes - After a lot of discussion from people who had complained about Cyano problems after switching to D-D H2O salt, Simon Garratt has written an informative article on chemical effects on Cyano outbreaks. See (ii) below.

 

Much of the article mentioned in point 5) is especially applicable to new and maturing tanks (less than 18 months old) where chemical and biological processesses are still finding a balance.

This is one of the biggest reasons we keep trying to encourage people to take things slowly whilst their tank is maturing. If you have a fully stocked tank of fish and corals within 12 months of setting up your tank, don’t be surprised if you suffer from nuisance algae’s and Cyano bacteria!!!!

[Fiesta_reef_time]

Thanks guys, you are real lifesavers. I'm leaving on vacation for 10 days on Wednesday and was just heartbroken thinking my tank was going down in flames because it might be dino. I know that the problem is it hasn't been waterchanged in over a week. But I was just holding off the change so that I could do the change the morning of me leaving so that it could be as clean as it could be. But my tank gets dirty quick, so I am thinking that it might be the cause of the cyano.

 

So for the water change I plan to change around 30-35%, and to a cyphon of the affected sand. One head of my hammer coral isn't growing to the full of its ability ever since the cyano appeared, but this also may be because theres a huge ass bristle worm cave right behind it, so I might relocate the coral today.

 

Does this sound like a good plan?

 

I also admit to rushing things, although I had a very long cycle, I was to anxious in adding in coral and fish, even though I should of waited a bit longer. I really hope this is just a stage that will pass in time.

 

Thanks again guys.

[ciedre]

Thanks guys, you are real lifesavers. I'm leaving on vacation for 10 days on Wednesday and was just heartbroken thinking my tank was going down in flames because it might be dino. I know that the problem is it hasn't been waterchanged in over a week. But I was just holding off the change so that I could do the change the morning of me leaving so that it could be as clean as it could be. But my tank gets dirty quick, so I am thinking that it might be the cause of the cyano.

 

So for the water change I plan to change around 30-35%, and to a cyphon of the affected sand. One head of my hammer coral isn't growing to the full of its ability ever since the cyano appeared, but this also may be because theres a huge ass bristle worm cave right behind it, so I might relocate the coral today.

 

Does this sound like a good plan?

 

Thanks again guys.

 

Yup sounds good.

[Fiesta_reef_time]

I also read that cyanos are feeding off green light. This is obviously caused the that pesky layer of green surface slime with the light shining down into the tank through the film it makes it a little green. Also there is just a miniscule amount of cyanos on the powerheads, how can I remove that?

[ciedre]

I also read that cyanos are feeding off green light. This is obviously caused the that pesky layer of green surface slime with the light shining down into the tank through the film it makes it a little green. Also there is just a miniscule amount of cyanos on the powerheads, how can I remove that?

attach a piece of airline to a toothbrush start a siphon and brush it off.

[brandon429]

can we get a pic posted of the tank as of today?

 

Ciedre thanks for that, did all that come from the website thingsweallhavegoogled.com?

 

Actually, flow adjustment helps tremendously, because it slows adhesion when the biomass tries to bloom and keeps a portion of it in suspension longer so manual removal can have some supportive effect. surely that turned up on some pages as well.

 

Agreed on the large water changes and removal at each water change I have never had a cyano probem with full removal. Increasing flow is a known and used technique for working with cyano.

[ciedre]

can we get a pic posted of the tank as of today?

 

Ciedre thanks for that, did all that come from the website thingsweallhavegoogled.com?

 

Actually, flow adjustment helps tremendously, because it slows adhesion when the biomass tries to bloom and keeps a portion of it in suspension longer so manual removal can have some supportive effect. surely that turned up on some pages as well.

 

Agreed on the large water changes and removal at each water change I have never had a cyano probem with full removal. Increasing flow is a known and used technique for working with cyano.

 

I have a Mp40 directed at cyano on my sand bed.....it hasn't moved or grown slower, the only time it moves is when the sand is being turned over by the pump. Yes it effects its adhesion but that's it...

 

No I did not get the information from that site. Its a collection of knowledge compiled onto on web page designed to help idiots like you who go around giving people false information. Rather than sending newbies or uninformed aquarist in the wrong direction.

[brandon429]

Sometimes in here we get to battling opinions and thats fun, but if you'll check around a bit its evident I don't mislead you just jump to that as a quick ends to your point. My tanks are pristinely free of pests using my techniques, plus I hang around threads for follow up to hone the recommendations for the next round. Physical removal and increased current always solves the problem, lol ur silly

[ciedre]

Sometimes in here we get to battling opinions and thats fun, but if you'll check around a bit its evident I don't mislead you just jump to that as a quick ends to your point. My tanks are pristinely free of pests using my techniques, plus I hang around threads for follow up to hone the recommendations for the next round. Physical removal and increased current always solves the problem, lol ur silly

 

Great! I'm glad you tank can defy the laws of physics. In the world outside your ass however things don't work that way.

 

Maybe next time you could at least elaborate on your cure-all methods? Rather than just jumping in and saying "just a powerhead adjustment".

 

Kind of reminds me of how people jump into ich threads and say "get a cleaner shrimp".

[brandon429]

IMO, no. Placement is just as important as GPH/water turnover

 

Where it is at the moment is supplying an amazing amount of flow. Though the current doesn't get to the very end of the tank its still moving a decent amount of water.

 

I do have a few SPS colonies that are in the high flow zones and there are currently no dead spots. But I can't help but think another MP40 or a MP10 would help. Also the Manual mentions that the Eco smart modes work better with multiple pumps, anyone have any experience with this?

 

 

You just wrote this, a proponent of great flow and your control of cyano is eased by that

the strong flow you are a proponent of is helping any tank dislodge cyano mat potential and increase redox in the water, both helpful counters to this kind of growth. That information is sound and repeatable combined with doing large water changes at each water change interval. u flip flop a lot to emphasize your points c

[Euphyllia]

I have the same thing the OP describe and it's on my sandbed. I noticed it's starting to spread to one of my base rocks. I have cyano in another tank on the rocks and it is like a big, thick, opaque blanket of goo. This is more thin, stringy and not blanket-like. I had it a few months back, but it went away. I hit the legendary six month mark for this tank and I'm experiencing the algae blooms. I've fought them off with superglue gel and all that I have left to battle is this. I'll do two 20% water changes this weekend and I'll siphon it off the sand. What else can I do? Does scooping sand over it help? And if I scoop sand over the infected rock, will it drown the algae out?

[brandon429]

I am certain that burying the biomass will not eliminate it, needs to be some form of physical removal. For persistent patches that rebound even after spot removal, you'd be suprised how well the peroxide thread is documenting the spray bottle technique for the worst infestations.

 

could we see pics euphyllia of the infestation>?

 

one thing is for sure, removing any biomass the second we see it is the key to diverting every infestation.

[Euphyllia]

I am certain that burying the biomass will not eliminate it, needs to be some form of physical removal. For persistent patches that rebound even after spot removal, you'd be suprised how well the peroxide thread is documenting the spray bottle technique for the worst infestations.

 

could we see pics euphyllia of the infestation>?

 

one thing is for sure, removing any biomass the second we see it is the key to diverting every infestation.

 

It's not really an infestation anymore... It was before the last WC. There is a thin patch or two on the sand and there is a TINY layer of it on the rock. It's covering a big area but it's not bulky at all. I siphoned it off the rock but it keeps coming back. Any tips?