Can aquaculture really be profitable?

[GiantBen]

Shipping colonies also runs a larger risk of having them break during shipping. If someone puts out top dollar for a football sized colony, they damn well want it to show up in one piece.

[paradox_of_reef]

yay! someone on my side i was beginning to think i was crazy. plus the larger colony represents a larger liability to the business because it is worth more and it cost much more to replace.

[GiantBen]

yay! someone on my side i was beginning to think i was crazy. plus the larger colony represents a larger liability to the business because it is worth more and it cost much more to replace.

I'm not taking sides, just making a point. The concept of getting into an unfulfilled market is very important. Otherwise it is very hard for a new business to distibguish itself and (presumably) pull business away from existing companies.

[gabe_j]

Shipping colonies also runs a larger risk of having them break during shipping. If someone puts out top dollar for a football sized colony, they damn well want it to show up in one piece.

 

not if you pack it right. and dont' use fedex lol. their handling sucks and the customer service isn't any better.

i've had good luck using foam to float more delicate pieces. if its bigger you can get a thick walled cooler and put peanuts on the bottom and then drop in your bag with the coral and pack it up with more peanuts and a heat or cool pack taped to the top of the cooler. and thats plenty of padding from it being beaten up on the flight.

and there is always the option of sending it through the airport and having them pick it up at their local airport. so there is no or very little time in a vehicle.

 

yay! someone on my side i was beginning to think i was crazy. plus the larger colony represents a larger liability to the business because it is worth more and it cost much more to replace.

after you start its all reall a liability the the business. i recently lost 2 colonies of acans they just started melting. as soon as i noticed something wasn't right i pulled them out into a seperate system. (bucket with a heater and pump) light sitting over the top. lol)

but there is always going to be a risk that your GOING to lose something. you have to be ok with that. wholesalers require you absorb the first 5% DOA and even then its at thier discression. if it was the airport they you have to claim through them. most of the time everything is fine but you have to realize some times things don't go flawlessly and you will have losses.

 

and i don't think PC lighting is going to get you far.keeping things alive sure thriving and growing like weeds probably not. your better off the t5 route. if you want to run 250watt 20k radium SE your better off and supplementing with VHO's your best lighting combo for photography period. and the colors you'll maintain is much better under that lighting set up. i'm sure folks disagree (mind you i'm running LEDs all of 2 weeks now)

but that is in my opinion the best set up you can go with for lighting. if you want i'll show you some other tanks that are run exactly like that or very close to it and have amazing results.

[paradox_of_reef]

I wouldn't say its an unfulfilled market by any means. if you want a large colony you can get them there really isn't anything new about that. you might lay awake at night unable to sleep knowing your coral was ripped shamelessly from the reef without even a second glass at what is does to the environment but you will have a really nice coral none the less.

 

The fact of the matter remains that there is no profit left to be made if you grow a coral yourself for several years with plans to sell it at the end. Meanwhile there are divers out there right now taking the same size colony of the same coral and selling it for a quarter of your "premium" price.

[Neya]

Neya, PC's are very cheap - the bulbs are only $7.90 each at Aquatraders.com and they are of decent quality so I use those - changing every 6 months. The fixtures themselves arent that bad either for the PC.

This is true... I didnt factor that in.

I was only thinking local. Around here PC bulbs cost WAY more than quality (ATI, UVL, Geisseman) t5HO bulbs. I also cant seem to find pc fixtures too inexpensively either... Was looking for a planted tank

[gabe_j]

but corals coming from the wild usually shift in color to an extent some more dramatically than others. and they have a much higher possibility to bring in pests. if your spending thousands on coral you don't want wild pest and shifty coral that might not even survive life in captivity. a/c corals have a proven track record of maintaining thier color, are strong growers, and that are ok with life in captivity.

[paradox_of_reef]

There are methods to prevent of detect all the problems you just mentioned. If you keep a wild coral in an iso tank for two weeks you can maintain its color. All those factors taken into consideration it doesnt even come close to the cost of raising a full grown colony yourself.

 

How much of your tank is certified to be aquacultured?

 

I fully support aquaculturing but the cost of raising long term large scale colonies cannot come close to to the profit of aquaclturing frags instead

[jeremai]

who said anything about shipping? these large colonies would most likely be purchased through the service portion of an LFS in a wealthy area; most rich people don't actually take the time to visit an LFS, lol.

 

paradox, I've done the math, so should you. an encrusted frag plug of ORA Red Planet is for sale right now on Diver's Den for $70 plus shipping. a baseball- to softball-sized colony of a similar coral could easily sell for $500 with the right marketing plan, and under the right conditions could be grown out to that size in 6-12 months. maybe add in luxury touches like personal delivery and a 'first dibs' program for future purchases.

 

say you sell three colonies a month and you always have 15 colonies growing. that would fit an a single 40B, lighting of your choice. whether you believe it or not, adding a component like this to an existing frag farm could very well be profitable. as profitable as a chop shop? probably not - but the prestige and brand recognition would make up for it in sales of smaller frags (look at ORA, for instance). when people can't afford a Maybach, they buy a BMW. when they can't afford a Patek Philippe, they buy a Rolex. when they can't afford an LE colony, they buy an LE frag.

[gabe_j]

i'd say a good 75% i'm phasing out all the wild stuff. i had a few zoas and some acans but all of my sps in a/c i've got some suppliers that pull in 100% aquacultured pieces its much pricier but i know its stable stuff.

 

also how exactly do you keep the color from morphing in an iso tank? i've had extremely rainbow acans shift to 2-3 colors in the eye from 6-7 colors in a matter of weeks. so i'd love to know. i'm not trying to come off as rude you honestly caught my attention.

 

 

who said anything about shipping? these large colonies would most likely be purchased through the service portion of an LFS in a wealthy area;

 

i brought up shipping sorry. its first hand experience they found me lol. but you have a point, tech's sell alot of stuff to the wealthy.

[paradox_of_reef]

I'm not convinced...

It doesnt make sound business sense to say the things you just said.

 

If the rich people aren't even shopping for themselves then consumerism gets thrown out the window brand name doesn't mean anything then. Even if it did who would you buy from ORA or some guys who says his sutff is as good as ORA. its obvious.

 

Say you did grow out that frag that cost $70 to the size of a soft ball well i can turn that soft ball into at least ten frags just as good as the original and make $700. which is a 40% increase in profit using the same rules you just provided by the way.

 

There's a reason Bugatti isn't an independent company yeah they have the fastest production car in the world but a company like that can't support itself on sales of their single 2 million dollar car.

[GiantBen]

Diver's Den for $70 plus shipping. a baseball- to softball-sized colony of a similar coral could easily sell for $500

with the right marketing plan

You could probably make 10 frags out of a colony that size, but I agree with you about establishing a name for having high-end colonies, could out-weigh the lost profit. "The right marketing plan" is a very hard thing to develop. I think it sounds far easier than it is. It's certainly not impossible, and developing a name is a big part of it.

 

adding a component like this to an existing frag farm could very well be profitable

I think this is key. The high end colonies could be *part* of the operation, but not all of it. If for no other reason than you don't want wait for the colony to grow out before you can bring in your first sale.

[gabe_j]

doesn't matter if you cut it up, if you become known for haveing high quality colonies your reputation can launch a lot of money your way. much more than the measly extra 200 you made chopping up a colony. it doesn't make sense to take the hit initially but long term its a great plan.

 

 

a well run system can churn out colonies fast like jer stated 6-12 months if you do it right. you can take frags as needed but you'll make far better money with a good reputation. and then sell frags than the other way around. who wants to pay for high dollar frags from someone they have never heard about? now how many more people will buy high dollar frags from the guys thats known for having good stuff i.e. steve tyree, jason fox, blah blah blah these guys did exactly what we're talking about.

think about it.

 

people we aren't talking about instant over night cash flow. it doesn't seem to be that this dude is going into it as his sole source of income. pacience is a virtue.

 

1)buy nice stuff

2)grow it

3)think of a cool name

4)wait

5)???

6)$$$

[GiantBen]

doesn't matter if you cut it up, if you become known for haveing high quality colonies your reputation can launch a lot of money your way. much more than the measly extra 200 you made chopping up a colony. it doesn't make sense to take the hit initially but long term its a great plan.

 

 

a well run system can churn out colonies fast like jer stated 6-12 months if you do it right. you can take frags as needed but you'll make far better money with a good reputation. and then sell frags than the other way around. who wants to pay for high dollar frags from someone they have never heard about? now how many more people will buy high dollar frags from the guys thats known for having good stuff i.e. steve tyree, jason fox, blah blah blah these guys did exactly what we're talking about.

think about it.

I agree with most of this. Look at it this way: lots of people on here buy cheap frags from Mr Coral. I have. Was I impressed? Eh, not really. Would I buy a large dollar item from him? Certainly not.

 

That said, I think it is naieve to go into the operation planning to get your name established along side Tyree, Fox, etc. These guys are the cream of the crop. It is a good goal, but your business model should not depend on that type of reputation (not that anyone said it would).

 

I think a good thing to do is to get involved with the local LFSs. Show them you have good stuff. Prove it to them. They are the ones making recommendations to thier customers. I'd imagine they wouldn't mind having the convenience of a local high quality a/c near by.

 

 

That said, I'm not sure any of this can be accomplished with a budget no-skimmer, pc lit system.

 

Edit: I know my spelling sucks. Sorry.

[paradox_of_reef]

Agreed i believe we have gotten away from the original post anyone want to take it elsewhere i like the discussion?

[GiantBen]

I'd say leave it to the OP. If he wants us to take it elsewhere we can, but it is on-topic for the thread title.

[jeremai]

I'm not convinced...

It doesnt make sound business sense to say the things you just said.

 

If the rich people aren't even shopping for themselves then consumerism gets thrown out the window brand name doesn't mean anything then. Even if it did who would you buy from ORA or some guys who says his sutff is as good as ORA. its obvious.

 

Say you did grow out that frag that cost $70 to the size of a soft ball well i can turn that soft ball into at least ten frags just as good as the original and make $700. which is a 40% increase in profit using the same rules you just provided by the way.

 

There's a reason Bugatti isn't an independent company yeah they have the fastest production car in the world but a company like that can't support itself on sales of their single 2 million dollar car.

like I said before, you obviously don't understand the way that luxury buying works. you're coming at this from a small-time hobbyist perspective. I've laid out a plan that would add luxury appeal and prestige to a frag farm, allowing them to raise prices for non-luxury items whole still maintaining their profit base. you're not convinced? don't do it. your loss.

 

but stop being so negative. this idea is obviously out of your depth; if you can't grasp the concepts involved, then just let it go. there's no need to completely discount a person's ideas simply because you don't understand them.

[paradox_of_reef]

Ok you are a mod you aren't supposed to insult people. if you think i'm wrong that fine to say so but back it up with an argument like i have with all my posts. I understand all of these concepts clearly. You don't understand the difference between being negative and being realistic.

[bensanders]

You don't understand the difference between being negative and being realistic.

 

Jeremai, relax man. Repeatedly telling somebody they don't understand something isn't the best approach for a Moderator. Especially when you don't help them understand the concept.

[GiantBen]

There is a big difference between understanding and agreeing. Just sayin.

[paradox_of_reef]

There is a big difference between understanding and agreeing. Just sayin.

Elaborate/clarify on what you are referring to please

[bensanders]

I'm pretty sure it's hinting at a person telling another person they don't understand something when in reality, it might just be a minor disagreement on the concept.

[GiantBen]

I'm pretty sure it's hinting at a person telling another person they don't understand something when in reality, it might just be a minor disagreement on the concept.

The other Ben really gets me.

 

Yes, I'm saying to Jer that just because someone doesn't agree with an idea you are selling, doesn't mean they don't understand it. It *is* possible to understand the idea fully and not agree.

[gabe_j]

I agree with most of this. Look at it this way: lots of people on here buy cheap frags from Mr Coral. I have. Was I impressed? Eh, not really. Would I buy a large dollar item from him? Certainly not.

 

That said, I think it is naieve to go into the operation planning to get your name established along side Tyree, Fox, etc. These guys are the cream of the crop. It is a good goal, but your business model should not depend on that type of reputation (not that anyone said it would).

 

I think a good thing to do is to get involved with the local LFSs. Show them you have good stuff. Prove it to them. They are the ones making recommendations to thier customers. I'd imagine they wouldn't mind having the convenience of a local high quality a/c near by.

 

 

That said, I'm not sure any of this can be accomplished with a budget no-skimmer, pc lit system.

 

Edit: I know my spelling sucks. Sorry.

 

lulz...

 

honestly, the average hobbist isn't going to be providing anything profitable to an lfs most of those guys take it in as store credit. period. expecting to hit the whole sale market is completely crazy you straight up won't make any money at all. its a fact. your not going to get anywhere trying to do that. the whole sale market is dominated. sorry it just is.

 

and getting "street cred" is deffinately worth striving for. think about it tyree's stuff had to come from somewhere, its not like he invented anything. you can strike coral gold transhipping you may get the next latest and greatest craze to hit the scene. or you my get redbugs, gha, and zoa pox its a toss up.

 

also i wasn't meaning this guy is going to be the next king of coral (which very well may be) but striving to be awesome isn't naive to think you can be up there with the "best" you just gotta keep a good rep. and have a nice collection.

[herranton]

lulz,

 

You guys can have a heated debate with a mod, he probably might not ban you.

 

 

 

BTW, Jer, Plz send me business model, typed and ready for bank approval.