Can aquaculture really be profitable?

[gabe_j]

phd... you bastard, good job. i need to go back to finish my degree.

[paradox_of_reef]

Last, nobody says you need high end lighting, and even dedicated frag plugs. Softies and LPS do fine under a few dozen watts of LED, and I use lava rock now for fragging. Lava rock is cheaper, it's more attractive in an actual tank, practically free, and because it's porous things grow on it faster.

 

Please elaborate on how being porous makes things grow faster.

 

I think its a great endeavor to start any sort of aquaculture project but the personal rewards of growing your our corals or breeding your own fish are immense. the satisfaction of knowing you are responsible for the growth you see is amazing i highly recommend it.

[blasterman]

Please elaborate on how being porous makes things grow faster.

 

Many of the recent frag plugs I got stuff on are plastic, and they are PITA to get things to attach to and grow on, and also next to impossible to stick them anywhere with epoxy puddy. They also can't be pulled apart as easily as the ceramic plugs, which can be turned into a simple disc to better place in your tank. Either ceramic plugs or pumice (lava rock) are better for a variety of reasons, including better initial growth.

 

Lava rock is the easiest to attach to existing rock work with the least effort.

[paradox_of_reef]

Many of the recent frag plugs I got stuff on are plastic, and they are PITA to get things to attach to and grow on, and also next to impossible to stick them anywhere with epoxy puddy. They also can't be pulled apart as easily as the ceramic plugs, which can be turned into a simple disc to better place in your tank. Either ceramic plugs or pumice (lava rock) are better for a variety of reasons, including better initial growth.

 

Lava rock is the easiest to attach to existing rock work with the least effort.

 

Ok i use tile frags they are the right amount of roughness for my taste anyway thanks for clearing that up i was just wondering what your reasoning was

 

Sorry to the OP for getting slightly of topic

[dasstheboss]

I do think its quite some time before I get the business going but I have some ideas as of yet. I can get 40 breeders for $40 from the PETCO dollar per gallon sale to the tank problem is finished. As per the sump, I will probably use another 40G.

 

But the stand im mixed up on, we will see. Btw, Im an undergrad but work with some of the best marine scientists at Rutgers and I hope to get into WHOI for my phD **fingers crossed**

[Colby88]

dasstheboss: Stick with it brotha. As someone who entered academia with a lot of hobby experience, I have seen first hand the lack of applicable experience from many researchers, converssely there is a fundamental lack of biological concepts in the hobbyist community. You are in a great situation to bridge that gap and help support our hobby as well as further scientific knowledge.

 

Like I said, stick with it and don't lose your passion. I am telling you from first hand experience, you can be a successful student while playing with aquaculture. But don't forget to have fun while you can, leave the fish tanks alone on friday night and go get some beer.

[paradox_of_reef]

I agree with that completely. I'm a biology student with an aspiring dream to be an aquaculturst of some sort. stay with it and one day you'll get going.

[ericm1205]

i started growing and selling frags and was moderately successful. your worst nightmare is alk swings.

 

my system started out as a 40b setup with a 20g sump fuge.

you are gonna need some biological filtration and a dsb and some rubble will be enough for a tank or 2 attached to a sump. i would start off with a single tank and then when you get going plan another new system. a shallow tank is the best for what you want to do. if you can find a cheap acrylic tank someone is selling that is a 120g or something then shop it to 12" or so. less water for the light to penetrate and you will get better growth.

dont put sand in the frag tank worst idea ever. makes a mess. you will need some fish cause fish poo is great for the frags. few damsels or a wrasse is good. cleaner wrasses are great to keep pests off the frags. i had hundreds of zoas and sps, lps before i sold it all to do clown breeding.

 

here is what i would do if i were you. 40b display. get a 6bulb T5. great growth and color, a 40b, a 20 to 40b tank for a sump. a good skimmer for 100g or more. i used a reef octopus. i used a reef octopus Ca Rx as well, cheap but reliable. if you dont want to use a reactor, then dosing is good. i was crappy at dosing and i went the reactor route. i saw awesome growth and extension when i switched to a reactor.

 

i bought alot of frag packs from fellow reefers. more you buy the more you save. i would get the frags and if they were big, i would frag them again. for zoas i would frag them into 2pp per frag. say if i had a 10pp frag i was fragging. i would frag 3 2p frags on a smaller frag plug then i would put the rest on a frag disk so i would use it as a growout colony.

check craigslist for tank teardowns and local frag swaps. great places to grow you collection cheaply. i would wait a while before doing sps. i had a hard time at first till i got the tank seasoned well with zoas. rotifers is a great food for all corals. grow some and feed the tank every other day and watch your corals explode.

[jeremai]

here's where I think the money lies, an untapped niche if you will: aquacultured colonies. a lot of people, myself included, cannot stand the look of tanks covered in tons of fingernail-sized frags, but don't want to risk the headaches of wild-caught colonies.

 

sure, they would take a while to grow out, but the premium price they could fetch due to being aquacultured would make up for the wait, imo.

[paradox_of_reef]

The problem with that is most places make more money fragging larger colonies, just look at mr. coral (say what you want about him but he's clearly successful.) and many people prefer to buy frags and have them grow themselves

[jeremai]

many keepers of nano tanks with limited funds, yes. there's also a vast segment of the reefing population with new, large tanks and money to burn, and their needs are not currently being met.

 

fwiw, someone with a 300g reef tank would consider a baseball-sized Acropora a 'frag'.

[paradox_of_reef]

Remember the economy. Leisure is the first sector to take a hit when the economy dives because its generally the easiest thing to cut from a budget few people can afford a hundred dollar coral each month but plenty can afford a twenty dollar one

[herranton]

I think Jeremai has a point. But, if I were to grow out a nice size colony of some LE coral and then sell it, I would be worried someone would buy it up, frag it, and quadruple their money. I would feel like I left money just sitting on the table.

[jeremai]

Remember the economy. Leisure is the first sector to take a hit when the economy dives because its generally the easiest thing to cut from a budget few people can afford a hundred dollar coral each month but plenty can afford a twenty dollar one

you don't really understand how luxury spending works. it's ok, common mistake.

 

I think Jeremai has a point. But, if I were to grow out a nice size colony of some LE coral and then sell it, I would be worried someone would buy it up, frag it, and quadruple their money. I would feel like I left money just sitting on the table.

exactly. that's why you need an 'exclusive' coral, available at sizes ranging from frags to large colonies, along with a killer marketing strategy.

[paradox_of_reef]

The fact of the matter is the retailer (in this case you, being the frag grower) stands to make more profit by selling more frags than a single large colony. just last week my friend bought a large colony of acro for $60, fragged about half of it and got $60 store credit at another fish store.

[jeremai]

whatever you say. you sound experienced.

[paradox_of_reef]

Jeremai, "you don't really understand how luxury spending works. it's ok, common mistake."

 

Sorry i messed up using the quote function

 

Feel free to elaborate i'm not closed minded i was just going from what i've done personally but i think selling more of a smaller frag would work better.

 

I do detect your sarcasm and it's not terribly appreciated at the moment please if you think i'm wrong let me know and elaborate so we can all learn. You are a mod and i'm no where near obnoxious enough to even hint that i know more than you.

 

I'm here to learn and get better at this hobby. aquaculture is something that i take very seriously.

 

Sell me on a business plan where growing larger full-sized colonies at more premium prices would work better than buying a large colony and double its value selling it as frags for 10 bucks each even if they are small.

 

Note to the OP if you think we've gotten off topic please let us know and we can move elsewhere i don't want to hijack anyone's thread

[jeremai]

I'm not talking about marketing to the average joe trying to save a buck. I'm talking about marketing to people who wouldn't think twice about laying down $300 for a coral, despite the economy. people who get bored one day and decide they'd like to drop $10k+ on a new fish tank.

 

I didn't say it would work better than a frag farm or chop shop, I just said it was an unfulfilled niche. I also said that the colonies should be sold alongside smaller mini-colonies and frags.

[paradox_of_reef]

I agree that there is a niche market for that sort of thing but i can't bring myself to believe that raising large colonies over long periods of time would be profitable. Especially when people can get a special permit to go out on the reef and take a colony just as big and sell it in there store or sell it to another retailer. I just see the cost of maintaining a large colony (feeding it, dosing it, lighting it) for increments of years to not be balance out by an appropriate price tag.

 

Yes there is something to be said about aquacultured products but is it really worth double or triple the money? Yes some super wealthy people might say yes but most people don't care so much about the reef to pay double when you were talking about 100's to begin with.

 

In my opinion after a certain point the longer you hold a coral the lower the profit margin will be. Many businesses are operated with just that in mind

[herranton]

If someone could get exclusive access to really cool looking corals, I think that it Jeremai's plan may be possible. You would want to hold on to the coral for awhile and grow out 3 or four different sizes of frags, then let the small ones hit the market first. Once the desire is there, the rich folk will not mind paying a premium price for the designer coral. You could potentially sell them for a lot more then $300 though, in fact you might have to. At that price point, you would most definitely be selling it to someone that would frag the heck out of it and take your profits from you. You would need a brand name behind the coral, and an even better marketing strategy. It could be done.

[gabe_j]

jer's plan is actually a really good idea.

 

i had a pretty substancial piece of emerald mummy eye, i'm talking 60+ eyes over 6x6 inches. sure if i broke it down i could have made around $3-5000 but i sold the whole thing for 700 and smaller 2 face chalice for 100 (i paid $200 for the eme $20 for the 2 face when i got them) but i still get calls from that buyer asking to get the lastest greatest chalices or anything "rare" or unique with no regard to price at all.

 

he wanted as his 2nd purchase a $1600 watermelon chalice but it got sold as i was placing my order. there is deffinately a market for the buyers that have huge disposable incomes that can drop a grand or more as stated above out of bordem.

 

same guy also wanted some other designer chalice that unfourtunately i couldn't find but it retailing around $300 an eye and he's asking me to get him 5-10 eyes so there is deffinately big money to be made marketing your corals for the rich or better off folks. and still maintaining smaller pieces to get you by during the interim for your average hobbist.

[dasstheboss]

Thanks for all the support, and initially got into the whole aquaculture because one of my professors, granted he is a geologist, said it is about time someone with knowledge of marine bio went into aquaculture. I never want to get wild caught stuff even with money aside because I see it then as nothing better than that bad lfs nearby with cyanide caught fish - Im better than that.

 

He is my modified plan: As of now, Im just going to make part of my 40G breeder that I already have into a frag tank, just grow out a few frags there and make money while I save up funds. My lighting I wanted to keep it at a 4 bulb t-5 because I will only be growing softies - but we will see as time goes on.

[Neya]

I do think its quite some time before I get the business going but I have some ideas as of yet. I can get 40 breeders for $40 from the PETCO dollar per gallon sale to the tank problem is finished. As per the sump, I will probably use another 40G.

 

But the stand im mixed up on, we will see. Btw, Im an undergrad but work with some of the best marine scientists at Rutgers and I hope to get into WHOI for my phD **fingers crossed**

 

Keeping it cheap I actually think PCs would be more expensive. PC bulbs aren't cheap and getting harder to find (at least thats been my experience, I could be wrong). Ive seen AMAZING deals on lighting lately on my local forum, you really have to sift through the expensive stuff. Some I couldn't personally use but REALLY wanted to jump on just because it was that good of a deal.

 

Hello lights currently has 2 250w retrofits available for $70 in their clearance section and a 36" single CF retro for $20.

[dasstheboss]

Neya, PC's are very cheap - the bulbs are only $7.90 each at Aquatraders.com and they are of decent quality so I use those - changing every 6 months. The fixtures themselves arent that bad either for the PC.

[paradox_of_reef]

Yeah but how good is growth under PC. i've never had one but i don't see to many people how use PC anymore. It only T5 or MH. LED's if you are really trendy. Even if we can't settle on what sizes of corals to grow i think Herranton, Jeremai, and Gabe_J will all agree you want the fastest growing lights you can get because you can get more product from a frag tank that way.