suppressing LED shimmer?

[Dizzle21]

i plan on building a unit for a solona 67xl and wanted some ideas on how to suppress the shimmer since i think it is too much tho i like the color. i have read that the flow will effect the shimmer but was wondering if anyone had some ideas on toning down the shimmer. will adding t5's help blend everything together?

[Dizzle21]

anyone?

[sae647]

adding T5's reduces shimmer, but not a whole lot. you can also put light diffuser (the clear textured plastic stuff, not eggcrate) right under the fixture. that helps a lot. personally i think you'd get used to the shimmer though, and start to like it.

[qwiksilver711]

personally i think you'd get used to the shimmer though, and start to like it.

+1 i like shimmer

[NewZealandReefie]

adding T5's reduces shimmer, but not a whole lot. you can also put light diffuser (the clear textured plastic stuff, not eggcrate) right under the fixture. that helps a lot. personally i think you'd get used to the shimmer though, and start to like it.

 

 

The further away from the water surface you have them the more noticeable the shimmer effect will be.

 

Any disruption to the waters surface will cause some shimmer.

[Dizzle21]

thanks i might try to use a couple t5s

[redfishsc]

The light diffuser is pretty effective at it. You will lose some PAR though, but maybe not enough to fret. Depends on what corals you have.

 

You can get it at Lowes or Home Depot pretty dirt cheap. Easy to cut with a razor knife, score-n-snap. Or cut with a dremel.

[Dizzle21]

The light diffuser is pretty effective at it. You will lose some PAR though, but maybe not enough to fret. Depends on what corals you have.

 

You can get it at Lowes or Home Depot pretty dirt cheap. Easy to cut with a razor knife, score-n-snap. Or cut with a dremel.

 

 

ya as long as you dont think it will effect the par cuz i plan on keeping sps.

[Verge]

i plan on building a unit for a solona 67xl and wanted some ideas on how to suppress the shimmer since i think it is too much tho i like the color. i have read that the flow will effect the shimmer but was wondering if anyone had some ideas on toning down the shimmer. will adding t5's help blend everything together?

 

 

We are the minority... I hate the LED shimmer, it looks so fake. Single MH is the only way i like it. I bet those diffusers really effect the par ratings, but it looks like the only option.

[Dizzle21]

We are the minority... I hate the LED shimmer, it looks so fake. Single MH is the only way i like it. I bet those diffusers really effect the par ratings, but it looks like the only option.

 

i dont like MH. dont get me wrong i like a little shimmer, and i love the color leds put out and the adjustability of colors. just wants to see if i can blend everything together better

[24nanoguy]

anyone?

Why???? Don't get LED's and you won't have to worry.

[Dizzle21]

Why???? Don't get LED's and you won't have to worry.

 

 

because i dont want metal halides and have to run a ####ing chiller

[jfarabaugh]

i am not a fan of LED shimmer either

 

took care of that issue and was able to blend the color better at the same time via a diffuser.

 

I also have PAR measurements listed with and without the diffuser.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...=257054&hl=

[Dizzle21]

http://www.s-pro.com.tw/led-lighting.html

is what i was looking for! i cant find it forsale anywhere tho.. but its a focal diffusing film that doesnt effect light transfer or par.

[Genj]

It's not big enough. I have a couple of sample sheets and it's only 150mm square. I'm going to put a few sheets together and see what I get, but JF's post tells you everything you need to know to get you where you want to be for now.

[Northern Enlighted]

diffusers wont reduce the light. That's physics, they will however spread the available energy over a broader area which in turn can affect the PAR of a certain XYZ coordinate. Therefore your positioning of your vertical placement can be adjusted to regain the loss of light in the affected area. I know it sounds technical but it works like frying a bug with a magnifying glass...just the opposite way.

 

In reality the only way you can reduce shimmer from LED's is by using a soft light defractor which is pretty much like a soft white film and non-directional. It wont reduce your light output but it will reduce it particular focus at that height. Meaning you may have to adjust the lights from where they currently are with defractors to get the same amount of light say over a 1"x1" sqauare at the bottom of your tank.

[doctaq]

diffusers definateley reduce light, even with commercial products you might lose more than 10 percent

[Northern Enlighted]

If your onto something the rest of the scientific community is not please elaborate. LED makes radiation in the form of light. Light travels less than 1/8" before hitting surface of diffuser, where does the 10% go then? Chalked up to the tooth fairy? Now if you can explain to me this new feature in light wave frequency, please do. If your speaking about a chromatic abberation where the while light is refracted in a different color once diffused that's a totally different thing. I dont think you are though.

 

HEY, SANTA CLAUS IS REAL!

 

Read this before you reply, if you dont get it, read it again...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_equation

 

http://www.rpgroup.caltech.edu/~natsirt/aph162/diffusion.pdf -If you really want to get technical you can surmise the theory from the last paragraph. (

for all (x, x

0

) ≥ 0. Figure 1c shows a time series with the x = 0 line at the top. Alternatively, we

can construct a simple Neumann boundary condition, where we do not allow any flux through

the x = 0 line, i.e. J(x = 0, y, t) = 0, which is the same a reflecting boundary condition.

Consider what happens if we add one Green’s function at a position ¯x = (x = x

0

, y) and another

at ¯x = (x = −x

0

, y). Whatever flux passes through the x = 0 line from the particle whose

position is x > 0 is exactly replaced by the image flux from the particle with x < 0, thus x = 0

acts like a perfect reflecting boundary. The new Green’s function for this scenario is given by...)

 

A continuity equation in physics is a differential equation that describes the transport of some kind of conserved quantity. Since mass, energy, momentum, electric charge and other natural quantities are conserved, a vast variety of physics may be described with continuity equations.

Continuity equations are the (stronger) local form of conservation laws. All the examples of continuity equations below express the same idea, which is roughly that: the total amount (of the conserved quantity) inside any region can only change by the amount that passes in or out of the region through the boundary. A conserved quantity cannot increase or decrease, it can only move from place to place.

 

If your diffusers are reducing your light output over a certain measurement, then your diffusers are literally shades... They are not built correctly and therefore are not a diffuser. Not your fault for buying them, you should inform yourself next time. Diffusers take a frequency wavelength and 'diffuse' it into multiple wavelentghs over different coordinates. Spreading the light, not reducing it by any means. If you take your PAR readings THEY ARE GOING TO BE WRONG because your diffusing the original measured beam into something completely different! That like taking a electrical line and plugging into a power strip and telling me the voltage just dropped by adding 3 more receptacles. Anything other than that IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT ie, diffusion is not refraction or reflection and your 10% loss of light is due to poor manufacturing a diffusing vector layer and not it's inherit properties and or definition of a diffuser.

 

My suggestion for anyone who doesnt get this is just do what you been doing for the last 30+ years, it's not hurting the rest of us.

[dling]

Just deduce the amount of surface movement.

[tundrashaul]

If your onto something the rest of the scientific community is not please elaborate. LED makes radiation in the form of light. Light travels less than 1/8" before hitting surface of diffuser, where does the 10% go then? Chalked up to the tooth fairy? Now if you can explain to me this new feature in light wave frequency, please do. If your speaking about a chromatic abberation where the while light is refracted in a different color once diffused that's a totally different thing. I dont think you are though.

 

HEY, SANTA CLAUS IS REAL!

 

Read this before you reply, if you dont get it, read it again...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_equation

 

http://www.rpgroup.caltech.edu/~natsirt/aph162/diffusion.pdf -If you really want to get technical you can surmise the theory from the last paragraph. (

for all (x, x

0

) ≥ 0. Figure 1c shows a time series with the x = 0 line at the top. Alternatively, we

can construct a simple Neumann boundary condition, where we do not allow any flux through

the x = 0 line, i.e. J(x = 0, y, t) = 0, which is the same a reflecting boundary condition.

Consider what happens if we add one Green’s function at a position ¯x = (x = x

0

, y) and another

at ¯x = (x = −x

0

, y). Whatever flux passes through the x = 0 line from the particle whose

position is x > 0 is exactly replaced by the image flux from the particle with x < 0, thus x = 0

acts like a perfect reflecting boundary. The new Green’s function for this scenario is given by...)

 

A continuity equation in physics is a differential equation that describes the transport of some kind of conserved quantity. Since mass, energy, momentum, electric charge and other natural quantities are conserved, a vast variety of physics may be described with continuity equations.

Continuity equations are the (stronger) local form of conservation laws. All the examples of continuity equations below express the same idea, which is roughly that: the total amount (of the conserved quantity) inside any region can only change by the amount that passes in or out of the region through the boundary. A conserved quantity cannot increase or decrease, it can only move from place to place.

 

If your diffusers are reducing your light output over a certain measurement, then your diffusers are literally shades... They are not built correctly and therefore are not a diffuser. Not your fault for buying them, you should inform yourself next time. Diffusers take a frequency wavelength and 'diffuse' it into multiple wavelentghs over different coordinates. Spreading the light, not reducing it by any means. If you take your PAR readings THEY ARE GOING TO BE WRONG because your diffusing the original measured beam into something completely different! That like taking a electrical line and plugging into a power strip and telling me the voltage just dropped by adding 3 more receptacles. Anything other than that IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT ie, diffusion is not refraction or reflection and your 10% loss of light is due to poor manufacturing a diffusing vector layer and not it's inherit properties and or definition of a diffuser.

 

My suggestion for anyone who doesnt get this is just do what you been doing for the last 30+ years, it's not hurting the rest of us.

 

:rant:

 

I did the same ting when someone called WD-40 a lubricant.

[jfarabaugh]

If your onto something the rest of the scientific community is not please elaborate. LED makes radiation in the form of light. Light travels less than 1/8" before hitting surface of diffuser, where does the 10% go then? Chalked up to the tooth fairy? Now if you can explain to me this new feature in light wave frequency, please do. If your speaking about a chromatic abberation where the while light is refracted in a different color once diffused that's a totally different thing. I dont think you are though.

 

HEY, SANTA CLAUS IS REAL!

 

Read this before you reply, if you dont get it, read it again...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_equation

 

http://www.rpgroup.caltech.edu/~natsirt/aph162/diffusion.pdf -If you really want to get technical you can surmise the theory from the last paragraph. (

for all (x, x

0

) ≥ 0. Figure 1c shows a time series with the x = 0 line at the top. Alternatively, we

can construct a simple Neumann boundary condition, where we do not allow any flux through

the x = 0 line, i.e. J(x = 0, y, t) = 0, which is the same a reflecting boundary condition.

Consider what happens if we add one Green’s function at a position ¯x = (x = x

0

, y) and another

at ¯x = (x = −x

0

, y). Whatever flux passes through the x = 0 line from the particle whose

position is x > 0 is exactly replaced by the image flux from the particle with x < 0, thus x = 0

acts like a perfect reflecting boundary. The new Green’s function for this scenario is given by...)

 

A continuity equation in physics is a differential equation that describes the transport of some kind of conserved quantity. Since mass, energy, momentum, electric charge and other natural quantities are conserved, a vast variety of physics may be described with continuity equations.

Continuity equations are the (stronger) local form of conservation laws. All the examples of continuity equations below express the same idea, which is roughly that: the total amount (of the conserved quantity) inside any region can only change by the amount that passes in or out of the region through the boundary. A conserved quantity cannot increase or decrease, it can only move from place to place.

 

If your diffusers are reducing your light output over a certain measurement, then your diffusers are literally shades... They are not built correctly and therefore are not a diffuser. Not your fault for buying them, you should inform yourself next time. Diffusers take a frequency wavelength and 'diffuse' it into multiple wavelentghs over different coordinates. Spreading the light, not reducing it by any means. If you take your PAR readings THEY ARE GOING TO BE WRONG because your diffusing the original measured beam into something completely different! That like taking a electrical line and plugging into a power strip and telling me the voltage just dropped by adding 3 more receptacles. Anything other than that IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT ie, diffusion is not refraction or reflection and your 10% loss of light is due to poor manufacturing a diffusing vector layer and not it's inherit properties and or definition of a diffuser.

 

My suggestion for anyone who doesnt get this is just do what you been doing for the last 30+ years, it's not hurting the rest of us.

 

Chillax. you are going to want that 10 minutes of your life back after no one reads that.

 

I don’t expect the $6.00 diffuser sheets we are using to be of any high manufactory quality. But help a great deal with cutting down the amount of shimmer.

[warfanax]

It has been a year but I will write for other people who needs a solution fast and cheap...

 

I used ''Glad Press'n Seal''. You can find it in any grocery store. http://www.glad.com/img/products/food-stor...s-n-seal-40.png It sticks to surfaces so good.

 

This is how it looks http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MMF8GzTvpO0/S5Pm...20/IMG_1846.JPG

 

I covered the top of plexiglass that protects my LEDs. The good thing about is, you can add as many layers as you want until you get the desired light diffusion. I was having a disco ball effect and adding 2 layers solved the problem.

[phasezero]

It has been a year but I will write for other people who needs a solution fast and cheap...

 

I used ''Glad Press'n Seal''. You can find it in any grocery store. http://www.glad.com/img/products/food-stor...s-n-seal-40.png It sticks to surfaces so good.

 

This is how it looks http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MMF8GzTvpO0/S5Pm...20/IMG_1846.JPG

 

I covered the top of plexiglass that protects my LEDs. The good thing about is, you can add as many layers as you want until you get the desired light diffusion. I was having a disco ball effect and adding 2 layers solved the problem.

 

It's interesting that you bring this up because I then realized the sand diffusion filter i bought online is very similar to the Glad Press and Seal I already had sitting around. The only thing i wonder is how much PAR it reduces. I felt comfortable with the sand filter that someone here on NR recommended because he already measured it to be up to 5% loss only.

[McJosh13]

It's interesting that you bring this up because I then realized the sand diffusion filter i bought online is very similar to the Glad Press and Seal I already had sitting around. The only thing i wonder is how much PAR it reduces. I felt comfortable with the sand filter that someone here on NR recommended because he already measured it to be up to 5% loss only.

 

I found this material and posted about it in Mar. It reduces the shimmer from annoying and distracting to just right in my opinion. More importantly it does a great job mixing light from the turquoise and deep red leds with the blue/white to eliminate disco effect. The good thing about the 5% loss was that it was measured in real world conditions through water. See below

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=296282

[absolon]

If you like the MH shimmer but want LED look into kessil or single large watt led builds. I dont hate the shimmer of LED but i do think its kinda busy and unnatural especially when compared to MH. When i saw a kessil in person i thought it was awesome. Different than MH and LED and i think better.

 

I dont own one so i cant comment on them much more than to say i liked the shimmer more than other LED