kgoldy Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hey bitts, Do you agree with the no-hermits approach in CUC, because they limit the fauna in the sand bed? I think I read on Chuck's Addiction that the author disagrees with the use of ANY crabs (to include emeralds and the rest). The only crabs I've ever found that I really like so far are porcelain crabs... So unless there's a bubble algae outbreak, I don't think I'll include emeralds in this setup. The one emerald in my 29 hasn't done much but stop the expansion of bubble algae in the last few months since I got him... I'd get another to see if that eradicates the bubble algae, but don't want to risk the chance of having two terror crabs in my tank. Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Upgrade! And.... BRS shipment came in today. 75 pounds of Pukani... that's a lot of rock! Link to comment
MedicBMC Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Youu trickster I thought this was going to be a 75g! I wanntt! Link to comment
bitts Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Happy days are here again. Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 So... much... rock.... Link to comment
ajmckay Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 +1 crabs bad. Hehe you should expound on that a little more.... Some types of crabs are bad, specifically Phthirus pubis & similar. IMO hermits aren't all bad, it's when you have too many that things get out of hand. I have 2 hermits in my 40b. I don't think they do anything super good, but I think they're interesting enough to keep around. Also, KG, you must be loaded! How many tanks have you gotten now? Geez... I'm saving up so that next paycheck I can pick up an ATO pump! hahahaha... Still, it looks good. Link to comment
bitts Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 sorry AJ crabs bad is as far as I'm willing to explain. Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Also, KG, you must be loaded! How many tanks have you gotten now? Geez... I'm saving up so that next paycheck I can pick up an ATO pump! hahahaha... Ever hear about that guy who took six trades to go from a big red paperclip to a house? That's pretty much what I'm doing with this setup. I don't deny spending a little money here and there... But let's just say I have a talent for trade, and bargain shopping. You should have seen me buying my truck. Poor dealers had their heads spinning. Haha. I ended up paying less for the thing than the dealership did. edit: Not having a wife helps a lot too. Hmm... Lets see if this works... Rockscape video: Link to comment
ajmckay Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 That's a lot of rock! Will all that be going into your display, or will some go into the sump? Also, we've been discussing the equipment and some of the initial methodologies of this tank, but does it have a goal of some sort? What types of livestock are you planning? Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 I haven't decided how much rock I'm using... But I'm thinking: some rock will end up in the sump, some won't be in the system at all. I can't believe how much volume 75 lbs of this stuff takes up. Those BRS videos that show how massive 12 pounds of pukani is vs figi are not at all exaggerated. At the moment, with all of the rock in the tank at once, there is a nice steep slope which will make for great light exposure on a huge amount of surface area on the rock. However, because the tank is more tall than wide (or more tall than deep, depending how you look at dimensions) I won't be left with a lot of sand to put frags and clams in. The primary theme of the tank will be nano. I think too many people with large tanks have a tendency to get big fish just because they have the space for them. I would rather have 3 or 4 false percs of different color morphs that host a variety of LPS than two big bully maroon clowns that have one giant RBTA that takes up half the tank. More individual fish/inverts, less mass per specimen. The secondary theme will be pairs/schools. Pairs of gobies with pistols, mated pairs, and schools of smaller fish that are too hard to sex yet friendly enough to tolerate groups (like neon gobies, etc.). I'd like a very active reef with lots of inter-species symbiosis and the possibility of breeding- even if most of the breeding results in food for filter feeders. I suppose I'll edit the first post later on to present the livestock theme after we hash out and discuss the ideas here. Livestock goals- 3-4 False Percs of different color morphs, all purchased as juvies at the same time. I'll wait until the system is pretty established so I don't shock the system and get a ton of ammonia from adding so many at once. "Showy" blennies- Tailspot, bi-color... something with a lot of color and personality. I love my algae blenny in my BC, so I may or may not keep him when I break that tank down (to help pay for this system). Algae blennies get a little big for the goal of this system... so he may need to find another home... If I can find a small species of jawfish, that'd be pretty nice, but all that I've seen so far might threaten other inhabitants... Randall's pistol shrimps with a variety of nano-watchman gobies. In my 29 I've got two pistol watchman pairs which keep to themselves, so I'm confident that I can have multiple species of watchman gobies in there without too much of a problem. Right now I have Yasha and Barberpoll who may not even know they're in the tank together since they never stray more than a few inches from their respective pistol's burrows. I'll have to watch the Diver's Den for pairs like two pistols/1 goby, 2 gobies/1 pistol, etc... Porcelain Crabs Both the anemone crabs, and the prettier type that will hide somewhere in my rockwork and come out once a month. Haha. I've never really come across anyone saying that porcelain crabs were a danger in their system the way that true crabs are. Snail based CUC (no hermits). My experience with hermits is that they steal food from everything, walk all over my corals, and just piss everything in my tank off. While I do see them as very effective scavengers of meat, I think just getting more nassarius to make up for the difference will make it alright. Maxi Minis- They're freakin gorgeous, and the actinic LED's in my system will make them really look fantastic. I hear they stay put, for the most part, if they have a spot to wedge their foot between rocks. With this pukani, I think they'll find comfortable spots quickly. Also, they make good homes for porcelain crabs and.... Sexy Shrimp These guys are some of my favorite of the salt water specimens. I'd like to defy the logic that says they're for picos/nanos only. With the tank's theme of keeping everything small- these guys shouldn't be threatened. Cleaner Gobies- They don't have to be ORA- but check out their page and you'll see the possibilities I'm looking at. These will make up my "schools". I doubt anyone will sex them (unless they're already paired up) so I'll have to watch the Diver's Den. I think I'll avoid adding cleaner shrimp... I've found my skunk in my 29 to be really annoying, because it steals from my LPS and anemones no matter what I do. Birdsnest and similar thin branching SPS at the top of the tank. I'd prefer there to be branching coral at the top third, that I'll allow to grow forward to partially shade areas below. The shimmering effects of the LEDs should look pretty neat under the shadows, a few years down the line. Hammer coral and similar branching LPS on the far left and right of the tank, hopefully this will be what the false percs host. Being close to the walls and away from the middle, the water flow should encourage the sweeper tentacles to go forward, towards the glass, instead of towards the rock and other coral. Encrusting SPS in the middle of the rock work. Clams, placed on rock or sand, as different species require. Acans near the bottom of the tank, on or near the sand. I'm hesitant to put zoos and paly's in the tank, as I'm personally a little allergic to their slime, and fragging them seems to be dangerous for the rest of the system. Maybe after a little more experience with them I'll become more comfortable with using them as filler around other coral. Mandarins, I'm going to let another year or so go by with people experimenting with ORA's supposedly trained mandarins before I choose which type I'll get. The plan is two have a breeding pair- but they must be truly pellet trained before I get them. These are the guys that made me fall in love with salt water, so I'll do everything I can to make sure they're a central part of my complete setup. ...I've gotta get to work. More on these thoughts later. Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hey bitts- What do you think of a few bags of Nature's Ocean Samoa Pink Sand #0 mixed with one bag of Samoa Pink Gravel #2? See comparison here This stuff was about half the price of the aragamax- although I got a few bags of that too. I think aragmaxx will be the bottom few inches, if I choose to do the DSB. Otherwise, it's just for the sump and the rest is getting returned. Also- you can see in my video how much of the bottom would be covered by rock... This creates a lot of area that the sand won't be stirred by nassarius, and I'm not sure if worms and other microfauna will be able to colonize in/near the rock that's buried in a DSB... Would this be problematic? Link to comment
bitts Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 as long as the rock is not sitting on the sand it should work just fine. the pink sand looks a little big to me but its hard to tell in the pics. I really do prefer smaller grains both in function & appearance my self. having had larger grains it seemed to gather build up faster than could be possessed. but did produce a better level of pods. the fauna will develop from the rock to the glass with a problem. Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 (I have 30 lbs of this) Pink sand #0 Grain size: 0.5-1.5mm (And 20 lbs of this) Pink gravel #2 Grain size: 1.5-2mm <--- I figure mixing in some of this will make burrows more stable. And I think three bags of aragamax oolite. Link to comment
bitts Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 mix some of the oolite with the with a little #0 in a bowl first just to see if the difference from adding the pink. problem is you can't return an open bag. again if theres to much of a range in size it will compact making it almost useless. Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 "The highest overall death rates were seen in aquaria with shallow coarse sediments over a plenum, and the lowest death rates occurred in aquaria with a sandbed composed of deep coarse sediments" from your second link in "sand bed primer links directory" That seems to contradict Ron Shimek's recommendations of finer grain or "mud"... Still reading.... Edit: "For a sand bed to contain the most animals of the most species, it really should have a distribution where sediment sizes span from about 2 mm to 0.063 mm (2 mm to 1/16th mm), and where most of the particles are in the 0.250 mm to 0.125 mm range. This will make a sediment that is acceptable, if not perfect, for most animals. " Ron Shimek How Sandbeds REALLY Work I think this makes my plan sound like it might work out... Mixing substrates should bring the total to about this recommended average. 2nd Edit: And another author you linked says DSB's must consist entirely of grains of .025-.2mm. Can't anyone just agree? Hahah Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Opinion Poll Time!! DSB vsSSB What would you go with? Please leave suggestions and comments! Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 For people who haven't been following- The question of DSB vs SSB is not only about function, but also looks. At the moment, I'm thinking a DSB hides too much of my rock. But I'll stare at it a while longer and listen to suggestions for a while before opening any bags of sand... Also, a DSB can always be done remotely- as there's room in my fuge and room to further expand the system in other ways. Link to comment
Rehype Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I say keep it shallow in the display. Too much sand would distract from your aquascape. I would recommend doing a DSB in your refugium if possible...That way you still get the benefits. Link to comment
bitts Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 "The highest overall death rates were seen in aquaria with shallow coarse sediments over a plenum, and the lowest death rates occurred in aquaria with a sandbed composed of deep coarse sediments" from your second link in "sand bed primer links directory" That seems to contradict Ron Shimek's recommendations of finer grain or "mud"... Still reading.... Edit: "For a sand bed to contain the most animals of the most species, it really should have a distribution where sediment sizes span from about 2 mm to 0.063 mm (2 mm to 1/16th mm), and where most of the particles are in the 0.250 mm to 0.125 mm range. This will make a sediment that is acceptable, if not perfect, for most animals. " Ron Shimek How Sandbeds REALLY Work I think this makes my plan sound like it might work out... Mixing substrates should bring the total to about this recommended average. 2nd Edit: And another author you linked says DSB's must consist entirely of grains of .025-.2mm. Can't anyone just agree? Hahah LOL & the Best part is they all have PHd's right! Gotta love it. P.S. It's always a giggle when I say this. But if it's just a question of looks, Bare Bottom with the display turning like 120 times per hour. Link to comment
ajmckay Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I like your plans! Although sexy shrimp in a 90? That's not very common... I wonder how much of a discount you could get on 50 of them... Link to comment
bitts Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 this might give some light on the subject. think about what kind of sand the area your recreating is like then draw a line from the center to where it would be. this should give an approximation of the grains. Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I like your plans! Although sexy shrimp in a 90? That's not very common... I wonder how much of a discount you could get on 50 of them... I think Lalani is breeding them... Maybe I'll make an offer on a whole clutch? Haha Link to comment
kgoldy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 this might give some light on the subject. think about what kind of sand the area your recreating is like then draw a line from the center to where it would be. this should give an approximation of the grains. I think "Silty Sand" might be where I'm looking at in the display... with a shallow sandbed. "Clayey Silt" might be where the refugium is with the DSB. Mineral Mud seems to be rather expensive... I'd like to find something that's less than $25 per gallon. Link to comment
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