Using kalk on a nano tank!

[1fishmonger]

Hi all -

 

I'm looking to set up kalk on a nano tank, 20 gallons to be exact. I get about 1/2 a gallon of evaporation a day. It's a custom long tank, so there's a lot more surface area than usual.

 

How would you go about using kalk with the ato in this set up? What pumps to use? I've looked at Tom's aqualifter but that seems to be too much at once and would nuke my tank considering the amount the float switch has to drop before it triggers the pump to turn on. 2 part dosing pumps are too slow I think. So, what are you guys using???

 

2 part is an option for this tank, but I'd rather maintain this tank with just the ato reservoir instead of having to have 2 or 3 more reservoirs in addition to the ato.

 

Thanks! What is the best/most efficient way to maintain alk/ca in a nano tank?

[lizardfish]

im sorry but im gonna tell you the answer you dont want to hear, nano and pico tanks need so little to be dosed at a time and parameters swing so easy that it would probably be easiest to spend your money on a good test kit and figure how much cal your tank uses in a day and dilute that amount x the number of 1/2g's ur ato tank holds, and dose ph/alk or anything eles by hand and test often. did that make since ? its late i need sleep lol

[1fishmonger]

im sorry but im gonna tell you the answer you dont want to hear, nano and pico tanks need so little to be dosed at a time and parameters swing so easy that it would probably be easiest to spend your money on a good test kit and figure how much cal your tank uses in a day and dilute that amount x the number of 1/2g's ur ato tank holds, and dose ph/alk or anything eles by hand and test often. did that make since ? its late i need sleep lol

 

 

Hah - Thanks for the thoughts but I really am looking for a way to use kalk on this system if possible. It's a fully packed tank with lots of LPS and SPS so I'm pretty sure alk/ca consumption is enough to warrant kalk (or dosing). I could go 2 part since I have everything needed but wanted to consider kalk for the simplicity. Wouldn't need a ca reactor since ca absorption isn't that high. I'm sure some people have/are.

 

So does anyone use kalk on their nano? or am I really reaching on this one?

[smurfman1040]

i could disagree with lizardfish more.

 

fishmonger you have the right idea i am working on the samething for my SPS dominated 15g. Im currently dosing BRS two part with sucess but i keep forgeting to dose and i have swings. Im am looking for consistant ca/alk levels.

 

This is my plan:

Gonna start off dosing on the low end and supplement what i need with 2 part until i get it tuned in.

mix the kalk well let it settle use the clear kalk water (without the particulate) and us with my ATO.

 

I dont think there much more to it but im still researching.

[Urchinhead]

Kalk is not necessarily the best option for a Nano. You will need to be keeping the water churned so that the kalk stays in suspension which means a kalk reactor or some other device.

 

Better to do two part and get dosing pumps or a dosing system like the GHL Profilux or LiterMetre or using what Bulk Reef Supply has in terms of peristaltic pumps if you really want to automate your systems.

[1fishmonger]

i could disagree with lizardfish more.

 

fishmonger you have the right idea i am working on the samething for my SPS dominated 15g. Im currently dosing BRS two part with sucess but i keep forgeting to dose and i have swings. Im am looking for consistant ca/alk levels.

 

This is my plan:

Gonna start off dosing on the low end and supplement what i need with 2 part until i get it tuned in.

mix the kalk well let it settle use the clear kalk water (without the particulate) and us with my ATO.

 

I dont think there much more to it but im still researching.

 

 

My question is really just... What pump should I use with ATO and kalk?

 

An aqualifter does about 3.5g/hour. Way too much of a swing if using kalk IMO.

2 part dosing pumps are way too slow. Would take something like 20 hours for the ato to stop..basically continuous 1.5ml/min dosing lol (about half a gallon)

I've been looking at a BRS top off which is 50ml/minute

 

Kalk is not necessarily the best option for a Nano. You will need to be keeping the water churned so that the kalk stays in suspension which means a kalk reactor or some other device.

 

Better to do two part and get dosing pumps or a dosing system like the GHL Profilux or LiterMetre or using what Bulk Reef Supply has in terms of peristaltic pumps if you really want to automate your systems.

 

 

What about kalk in ato water?

 

I have 4 Drew's dosers laying around... I GUESS I could do 2pt. Only thing is my other tanks already have this and I wanted something 'new'.

 

Any other thoughts on kalk + nanos?

[Deleted User 6]

imo, i've never had to do anything other than 10% weekly WC's with a HQ salt mix to keep my params in check. what size nano are you talking about?

[1fishmonger]

imo, i've never had to do anything other than 10% weekly WC's with a HQ salt mix to keep my params in check. what size nano are you talking about?

 

 

20g. Thanks for chiming in. Where are the other old timers on this site? I need some tested, tried and proven methods for this on a nano. Anyone with more experience than me preferred lol But of course, any advice is welcome and appreciated.

[Deleted User 6]

On a small tank, if you have so many clams/SPS that you have to dose, the easiest way is probably to just get a good 2-part (ESV or BRS), see how much your calk/alk drops per day (just test it at the same time every day for a few days to see the reduction), then use a calculator like the BRS one to determine how much to dose. If you've got too much money and too little time, I guess you could go with a peristaltic doser or something.

 

Urchinhead knows what's up.

[blasterman]

Could somebody please explain to me what the difference is between regular kalk mix and the calcium component of a two part ?

[MrIcky]

I'm not sure you'll see to much action on this question. I've only read tank threads from a few people who use kalk on nanos- you may be better off doing a mass google search for info. Those that did used peristaltic pumps to deliver microdoses at night outside of your ato. Most people don't put their ATO to only be on at night when their tank's ph falls, but I guess that's possible to do. Beyond the peristaltic pumps, an aqualifter is about as slow as it gets- so you'd have to dilute the top off water to the point where I'm not sure that it was worth it in the first place. If you carefully place your aqualifter's height in relation to the tank, you can somewhat control the flowspeed.

 

What is your calcium consumption at if you don't mind me asking? I'd look at some of the heavy sps NTOTM builds to see what they are doing. If you just want to experiment though, I wish you much success- make sure you post up what you did and how it worked .

[1fishmonger]

On a small tank, if you have so many clams/SPS that you have to dose, the easiest way is probably to just get a good 2-part (ESV or BRS), see how much your calk/alk drops per day (just test it at the same time every day for a few days to see the reduction), then use a calculator like the BRS one to determine how much to dose. If you've got too much money and too little time, I guess you could go with a peristaltic doser or something.

 

Urchinhead knows what's up.

 

Yeah, I have BRS 2 part as well as a local shop's bulk stuff that's pharma grade. So does anyone even use Kalk on a nano?

[Nano sapiens]

I dose clear, saturated Kalkwasser in a pre-determined amount with distilled in a pair of gravity fed ATOs. The amount of Kalk needed is determined via experimentation/CA & ALK testing.

 

If I had a non gravity fed ATO I'd do the same thing. Kalkwasser is caustic, and depending on the ratio of Kalk to pure water, could shorten the life of your typical pump. I'd make sure that I have a spare pump on hand just in case.

[Mudfish]

I've been doing kalk in my topoff water in my 40-gallon for about a year now (or more - I don't know, I'm at work). Until just recently it kept up with the demand just fine. But with growth and more SPS additions, I'm finally having to spoon in a little bit of alk booster in addition each morning.

 

I have a 4-gallon topoff container that i fill with RO/DI, then I stir in 3 tablespoons of kalk from BRS. I don't even wait for it to settle anymore; I've come to think that's hooey. I have a regular old homemade ATO with two float switches, one for fail-safe. The topoff pump is an Aqualifter (what else?). So every time the level in the sump drops, the system gets topped off with kalkwasser. I've not had any problems. Like I said, until just recently my levels stayed consistently at ~ alk=10, Ca=410.

 

As a result of starting the biopellets, my alk dropped to ~7-8, which I've read is to be expected. I find I have to dose the little bit in addition to the regular kalk to keep the tank at alk=8, Ca=400.

[1fishmonger]

I'm not sure you'll see to much action on this question. I've only read tank threads from a few people who use kalk on nanos- you may be better off doing a mass google search for info. Those that did used peristaltic pumps to deliver microdoses at night outside of your ato. Most people don't put their ATO to only be on at night when their tank's ph falls, but I guess that's possible to do. Beyond the peristaltic pumps, an aqualifter is about as slow as it gets- so you'd have to dilute the top off water to the point where I'm not sure that it was worth it in the first place. If you carefully place your aqualifter's height in relation to the tank, you can somewhat control the flowspeed.

 

What is your calcium consumption at if you don't mind me asking? I'd look at some of the heavy sps NTOTM builds to see what they are doing. If you just want to experiment though, I wish you much success- make sure you post up what you did and how it worked .

 

Thanks for the reply Yeah, I can already see it's not going to get much action. I look at the recent posts and a lot of what I see is: 'Is my bioload too much' and 'can I do this' and 'can I do that'. Just thought NR would be the place since well..It's NANO reef

 

That was my main idea - Use a 50ml/minute pump with kalk water and only run it at night/early morning.

 

What's NTOTM? Non-Tank of the month???

[Urchinhead]

On a small tank, if you have so many clams/SPS that you have to dose, the easiest way is probably to just get a good 2-part (ESV or BRS), see how much your calk/alk drops per day (just test it at the same time every day for a few days to see the reduction), then use a calculator like the BRS one to determine how much to dose. If you've got too much money and too little time, I guess you could go with a peristaltic doser or something.

 

Urchinhead knows what's up.

 

Thank you sir.

 

The bottom line OP is that on your size tank using Kalk is a *BAD* idea. The reason its a bad idea is that the chance of something going horribly wrong is far too high.

 

With Airplane's altitude is one of the deciding factors in recovery from an unexpected "issue" with the aircraft. Too little and you die. With Aquariums its water volume. The more you have the more likely you are to survive a "Aw $hit!"

 

Two part is the safest and best choice for you. Automating the dosing is also up to you. Break out ATO from dosing by the way. Use a standard ATO system and then either dose via two part manually or spend the cash on a dosing system. It will give you a much higher degree of control over how much changes in the tank and how fast. With Kalk you are basically just raising dKH.

 

To the person who asked what two part was...

 

Two part is a bottle of Ca (Calcium) and CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate) suspended in a liquid medium. Both are important elements to the heath of our corals and clams and are what allow growth. Ca is just what it sounds like and is used to make the skeleton on corals. CaCO3 is essentially an alkaline and is used in skeleton formation as well as to keep the pH of our water on the "base" (other side being acidic) side of the pH scale.

 

Overall Kalk is overkill in anything smaller than 40 gallons that is not SPS only. And it shouldn't be bolused in large doses. It needs to be on a constant drip otherwise you will get swings on your dKH and pH that will hurt more than help. If you do go the Kalk route then use a separate dosing methodology from your ATO. I have seen things as simple as an IV line with roller to things as complex as a Kalk Reactor used.

 

As to my own experience I was up to 60 ml a day in one tank but that tank was WAY heavy on SPS and had several clams in it. Normally a Nano sized tank with a fair mix of SPS, LPS, and a clam should be safe with weekly water changes of 10%+ using a good high quality salt mix as DH points out. Sometimes though if you are seeing growth spurts you may need to supplement, as I did, due to uptake of the Ca and CaCO3 ions being higher.

[Deleted User 6]

btw, BRS 2-part includes Mg as well. Also important.

[1fishmonger]

Thank you sir.

 

The bottom line OP is that on your size tank using Kalk is a *BAD* idea. The reason its a bad idea is that the chance of something going horribly wrong is far too high.

 

With Airplane's altitude is one of the deciding factors in recovery from an unexpected "issue" with the aircraft. Too little and you die. With Aquariums its water volume. The more you have the more likely you are to survive a "Aw $hit!"

 

Two part is the safest and best choice for you. Automating the dosing is also up to you. Break out ATO from dosing by the way. Use a standard ATO system and then either dose via two part manually or spend the cash on a dosing system. It will give you a much higher degree of control over how much changes in the tank and how fast. With Kalk you are basically just raising dKH.

 

 

Thanks for the input. That's really the argument for kalk vs. 2 part in any sized tank. Something goes wrong and they really go wrong. Snail stuck in float switch etc. Nano tank does amplify the consequences. I guess this tank will just mimic my bigger set ups. =\ 2 part and an ATO. Just thought that on a smaller tank, less tubes running to the tank would be nicer. Mg I do by hand alongside water changes

 

Still interested if any are using kalk, though.

[1fishmonger]

btw, BRS 2-part includes Mg as well. Also important.

 

 

Yup So are you guys in the classes of '07-'08 the old timers on here?

[40+]

Well I'm convinced Urchinhead,

 

I was looking at doing something along the lines of the Tunze Calcium Dispenser Kit 68. Seemed like a good AIO option.

http://www.tunze.com/149.html?&L=1&amp...r_tunzeprod_pi1[predid]=-infoxunter036

 

Looks like 2 part will be the way to go.

[Urchinhead]

Thanks for the input. That's really the argument for kalk vs. 2 part in any sized tank. Something goes wrong and they really go wrong. Snail stuck in float switch etc. Nano tank does amplify the consequences. I guess this tank will just mimic my bigger set ups. =\ 2 part and an ATO. Just thought that on a smaller tank, less tubes running to the tank would be nicer. Mg I do by hand alongside water changes

 

Still interested if any are using kalk, though.

 

Cheers. I ran with kalk for a brief time but wasn't happy with the associated mess it made. As in it is caustic and I have a young child who at the time liked to put fingers and mouth into things and that would have been a disaster. And it just didn't do the trick. I ended up having to fiddle with it unmercifully.

 

Of course I am also lazy and ended up going the auto doser route. After looking at all the options on the market the best bang for the buck was the GHL. Its not cheap but the granularity of control it gives you is pretty spot on and its reliability is pretty high too.

 

Truth in advertising: I liked the GHL so much I became an authorized reseller of it. That said I am not biased towards it in this posting or others. For you the Aqualifter may be a good choice and the BRS pumps are darn good pumps.

 

I am also a huge fan of Tunze (not a dealer yet though) but honestly that was what I was using to do my kalk and it just didn't work as well as I would have liked. Now for an ATO pump the Osmolator pump is bang on hard core. DC motor that doesn't catch fire if it runs dry and has a head height of almost 13 feet! Can't beat that!

[1fishmonger]

Cheers. I ran with kalk for a brief time but wasn't happy with the associated mess it made. As in it is caustic and I have a young child who at the time liked to put fingers and mouth into things and that would have been a disaster. And it just didn't do the trick. I ended up having to fiddle with it unmercifully.

 

Of course I am also lazy and ended up going the auto doser route. After looking at all the options on the market the best bang for the buck was the GHL. Its not cheap but the granularity of control it gives you is pretty spot on and its reliability is pretty high too.

 

Truth in advertising: I liked the GHL so much I became an authorized reseller of it. That said I am not biased towards it in this posting or others. For you the Aqualifter may be a good choice and the BRS pumps are darn good pumps.

 

I am also a huge fan of Tunze (not a dealer yet though) but honestly that was what I was using to do my kalk and it just didn't work as well as I would have liked. Now for an ATO pump the Osmolator pump is bang on hard core. DC motor that doesn't catch fire if it runs dry and has a head height of almost 13 feet! Can't beat that!

 

GHL = ??? I'm running through my book of acronyms and I'm not coming up with anything I've thought about Bubble Magus but could no way imagine putting that on my 20g when my bigger tanks have BRS dosers on them!! This will probably end up being Drew's dosers for 2pt and aqua lifter for ATO.

 

Authorized reseller? of what else? Where are you located? Online presence?

[Gatotsu77]

My question is really just... What pump should I use with ATO and kalk?

 

An aqualifter does about 3.5g/hour. Way too much of a swing if using kalk IMO.

2 part dosing pumps are way too slow. Would take something like 20 hours for the ato to stop..basically continuous 1.5ml/min dosing lol (about half a gallon)

I've been looking at a BRS top off which is 50ml/minute

 

 

You do realize that 3.5gph meters out to approx. 22mL per minute, right? (13,250mL = 3.5 gallons) The pump you wanted that doses 50mL/hr would be flowing twice as much fluid as the aqualifter.

 

I've been dosing kalk (1/4 tsp per 1L, not fully saturated) and sodium carbonate (baked baking soda, same concentration as kalk) with perceived improvement in polyp extension and coral colors, and I've just been pouring ~200mL of each into my AC110's impellar side (semi slowly, I take about 30 seconds per) about 4 times a day. 3.5gph would be no big deal as long as you have your float switch set up in just the right spot.

[Gatotsu77]

(edit to above, as my iPhail will not allow me to modify my last post)

 

Glad to see you're considering keeping the dosing/ato separately. Definitely much less worrisome in my opinion, and easier to regulate just how much is being dosed. I'm looking into options for my 26g, but haven't got the money set aside for peristaltic pumps presently.

 

Edit: Gah!! Now the flipping thing will let me modify the post. I HATE this phone. I will post photos when I "install" bullets next month.

[Urchinhead]

GHL is the GHL Profilux line.