24 cube cold water

[moto826]

well my heater broke and tank wasent doing well so i traded my leds for a chiller and gave away my zoas now the tank is setting at 65 degrees for the cycle will be getting rocks for it today and wait for the cycle to finish

[C-Rad]

[...] now the tank is setting at 65 degrees for the cycle will be getting rocks for it today and wait for the cycle to finish

I'm a fan of cycling the tank at room temp, or even warmer, because bacteria multiply much faster at warmer temperatures. Then, after the cyclel, I reduce the temperature slowly (1 degree per day?). Keep feeding the tank after the cycle, so that the population of bacteria has something to eat.

 

When you say that you are getting rocks, do you mean live rock, or just "rocks"? In case you're not already aware, live rock is very porous, but "rocks" are not, and so don't do (hardly) any bio-filtration. If you are counting on rocks providing filtration the way live rock does, you'll need to come up with an alternate bio filtration method, or you'll need to keep very few animals per gallon.

[moto826]

rocks from the beach and i also have the bio pellets and am going to use as many bio balls as i can fit in the sump or a big canister filter i have

[animalmaster6]

Can't wait to see it man!

[moto826]

I'm a fan of cycling the tank at room temp, or even warmer, because bacteria multiply much faster at warmer temperatures. Then, after the cyclel, I reduce the temperature slowly (1 degree per day?). Keep feeding the tank after the cycle, so that the population of bacteria has something to eat.

 

When you say that you are getting rocks, do you mean live rock, or just "rocks"? In case you're not already aware, live rock is very porous, but "rocks" are not, and so don't do (hardly) any bio-filtration. If you are counting on rocks providing filtration the way live rock does, you'll need to come up with an alternate bio filtration method, or you'll need to keep very few animals per gallon.

if the tank was already going and i lowered the temp slow would i need to cycle ?

is it the same bactirea ?

 

Can't wait to see it man!

as i cant wait to see your tank with water in it

[AquaticEngineer]

Is there any other forums that we are both on?

[reefer916]

I was thinking about doing something similar because I'm close to the California coast. Can we collect rocks, nems, crabs, kelp, etc. from the shore? I know that there are restrictions on Abalone and keeping a 7" ab probably won't work in a cold water nano..lol

 

How do the water parameters differ compared to the low nutrient warmer reef tanks we're used too. The temp obviously, but the water has a lot more nutrients in it.

[reeftankguy]

as i cant wait to see your tank with water in it

 

[scorpkeeper]

We've been running a NC28 at 63*F for a bluefin lionfish with good results. There are actually a couple of coastal CA fish we're after, but thus far, haven't been able to find a collector.

 

What fish are you considering for your setup?

[moto826]

Is there any other forums that we are both on?

im every where lol

 

I was thinking about doing something similar because I'm close to the California coast. Can we collect rocks, nems, crabs, kelp, etc. from the shore? I know that there are restrictions on Abalone and keeping a 7" ab probably won't work in a cold water nano..lol

 

How do the water parameters differ compared to the low nutrient warmer reef tanks we're used too. The temp obviously, but the water has a lot more nutrients in it.

i dont know the laws of cali but i dont think so what about a live fish market ? mostley in china town

 

We've been running a NC28 at 63*F for a bluefin lionfish with good results. There are actually a couple of coastal CA fish we're after, but thus far, haven't been able to find a collector.

 

What fish are you considering for your setup?

I'm not sure sorry probably local fish or a fleet of catalina gobies

[reefer916]

im every where lol

 

 

i dont know the laws of cali but i dont think so what about a live fish market ? mostley in china town

 

 

I'm not sure sorry probably local fish or a fleet of catalina gobies

 

China town will probably be a good place to look. The funny thing is that I'm chinese and I could see my grandparents wanting to eat my fish..lol I know there are Linkcod, rock cod, they sell for food, but I haven't checked out what they have in smaller fish that I could keep. Next time I'm out in SF I'll swing by and check it out.

 

Are you guys running just PC, T5's, or MH's? I'm assuming that most of the coral are high nutrient low light corals because it's so murky in the water. Next time I go abalone diving I'll have to check it out and I'll be in Monterey this weekend, so I can do somemore research.

 

Thanks

[moto826]

im using a 250 halide till i get less light

[C-Rad]

rocks from the beach and i also have the bio pellets and am going to use as many bio balls as i can fit in the sump or a big canister filter i have

I have local rocks for decoration, but they don't provide any bio-filtration to speak of, and a lot of it is needed in a heavily fed cold tank. I don't like the look of tropical rock in a California tank, so I use bio balls in a wet/dry trickle filter. I think it's a myth that "bio balls are a nitrate factory", but there are two mistakes that are easy to make when you use bio balls, that can result in high nitrates:

1) If you let particles of food or detritus get trapped, and build up, in the bio-balls, then they will slowly decay, and eventually produce a lot of nitrate. The solution is to have a mechanical filter (like floss, or a sock) before the bio-balls, and clean/replace it every day or two (or three). Also, you should gently rinse the bio-balls in a bucket of discarded tank water (not tap water!) every six months or so, to remove any trapped junk that got past the pre-filter.

2) Live-rock (from the tropics) has deep places where anaerobic bacteria can live, and so these bacteria will consume some of the nitrate that is produced in the aerobic areas of the live rock, and nitrate will build up more slowly in a tank with live rock. A Remote Deep Sand Bed (RDSB) has been shown to reduce nitrate too, and so I recommend that when bio-balls are used instead of live rock, a RDSB also be used, to reduce nitrate that would otherwise build up more quickly.

[C-Rad]

if the tank was already going and i lowered the temp slow would i need to cycle ?

is it the same bactirea?

I can't say for sure, but I think they are the same. There are always several species going at once, and maybe the proportions change, but I suspect that the net effect is simply that bio-filtration happens more slowly at lower temperatures, and faster as the temp rises (within certain bounds of course). I'm confident that a gradual temperature change won't kill everything and force the population to start over from scratch, but I haven't done any experiments. I think I read the results of some experiments done for the water treatment industry in which they varied the temp to see what would happen. They did it slowly (a degree or three per day?) and filtration sped up and slowed down (they were looking for the sweet spot).

[moto826]

i read where you said you could use the plastic scrubbers and im thinking of going that way so i have more area for the bacteria to live

 

and i thank you for all the info you have given me as i need all i can get lol

[steveweast]

I have local rocks for decoration, but they don't provide any bio-filtration to speak of, and a lot of it is needed in a heavily fed cold tank. I don't like the look of tropical rock in a California tank, so I use bio balls in a wet/dry trickle filter. I think it's a myth that "bio balls are a nitrate factory", but there are two mistakes that are easy to make when you use bio balls, that can result in high nitrates:

1) If you let particles of food or detritus get trapped, and build up, in the bio-balls, then they will slowly decay, and eventually produce a lot of nitrate. The solution is to have a mechanical filter (like floss, or a sock) before the bio-balls, and clean/replace it every day or two (or three). Also, you should gently rinse the bio-balls in a bucket of discarded tank water (not tap water!) every six months or so, to remove any trapped junk that got past the pre-filter.

2) Live-rock (from the tropics) has deep places where anaerobic bacteria can live, and so these bacteria will consume some of the nitrate that is produced in the aerobic areas of the live rock, and nitrate will build up more slowly in a tank with live rock. A Remote Deep Sand Bed (RDSB) has been shown to reduce nitrate too, and so I recommend that when bio-balls are used instead of live rock, a RDSB also be used, to reduce nitrate that would otherwise build up more quickly.

 

A very good post and representative of my observations. I'd add a couple more notes though....

 

1) Submerged bioballs are nothing but surface area made of plastic.....no different from your plumbing, sides of your tank, rocks, sump, etc. The main gunk that needs to be cleaned a couple times a year is dead bacteria. over time dead bacteria strands clog the bioballs and reduce efficiency.

 

2) Everything is more difficult in a cold tank (bacteria-wise). It is not comparable to a warm tank. An example....my 100 gal cold tank required 28 ml/day of vodka to keep NO3 at zero. That amount in a warm tank would support a 1000 gal tank. Another example....On my new 400 gal tank, I decided to go with bio-pellets instead of flooding the tank with vodka. After running 12 liters of the pellets for 6 months, NO3 was still running out of control. 12 liters could run a 2000 gal warm tank. I'm now moving over to a sulfur denitrator which, for some reason, seems to yield better results in a cold system. I'm very glad that I experimented on my small cold tank before going bigger. I'm dubious if refugiums or RDSB's will have any practical applications in a heavily stocked cold tank....unless they are many times larger than the actual display.

[AquaticEngineer]

..... I'm now moving over to a sulfur denitrator which, for some reason, seems to yield better results in a cold system......

 

Did you purchase one or make one? Just curious if this would be a good route for a smaller system like mine.

[steveweast]

Did you purchase one or make one? Just curious if this would be a good route for a smaller system like mine.

 

 

I purchase in most cases. In your case....since the tank is relatively small....it might be easier to control the nitrates with vodka dosing and frequent water changes. I'm only moving to a denitrator since at 400 gals, those are no longer practical options for me.

[animalmaster6]

No way! Steve Weast is on this forum? Awesome!!