Alk Problems

[Bill Nye]

Hi everyone,

 

Recently I have been having relatively low alk. As of two days ago my readings were

 

pH- 8.3

Calc - 460

Alk - 7.5

Mag- 1400

 

I am not sure why my alk is so low yet my other parameters are fine? When I mix a bucket of water and let it aerate for 24 hours the alk comes to about 9.5. The only thing I can think of is perhaps the top off water is bringing my overall alk levels down? Do people typically adjust the alk of their top off water? Either way this is quite annoying. Thanks for any opinions.

[Urchinhead]

That would be correct. RO/DI water can lower alk since by definition it is inert as all the various elements have been filtered out. Use two part to buffer up the water in your tank.

[Bill Nye]

That would be correct. RO/DI water can lower alk since by definition it is inert as all the various elements have been filtered out. Use two part to buffer up the water in your tank.

 

 

Ty for the response. As of two days ago Ive been dosing just the alk part of the 2 part buffer. Would you recommend using the alk supplement in my auto top off water? It is a gallon jug, so .25 mL of it would bring my pH to 8.3 and alk to a normal level.

[bluefunelement]

Science Guy,

Due to low Ph (winter/summer) I decided to augment my two-part with Kalk in the ATO. As long as you use a pump vs aqualifter it's easy to premix the kalk in an ice tea maker then drain off the good water to put in your ATO container - it will still settle and crust some but it's pretty clean.

Keeps my ALK higher for sure and lessens the amount of two-part I use

[Maddevil1]

Hi everyone,

 

Recently I have been having relatively low alk. As of two days ago my readings were

 

pH- 8.3

Calc - 460

Alk - 7.5

Mag- 1400

 

I am not sure why my alk is so low yet my other parameters are fine? When I mix a bucket of water and let it aerate for 24 hours the alk comes to about 9.5. The only thing I can think of is perhaps the top off water is bringing my overall alk levels down? Do people typically adjust the alk of their top off water? Either way this is quite annoying. Thanks for any opinions.

 

Recently? Have you been doing anything different? Switched salts, added more corals, etc? Initially I would say that your balance between calcium/alk is why your alk is low, seeing that your calc is 460. But if you've had a calc of 460 and alk of say 9 before, then its something else. Maybe test kit? If it comes down to just dosing more, I personally wouldnt add it to the top-off. Just dose your talk more often with alk.

[Bill Nye]

Recently? Have you been doing anything different? Switched salts, added more corals, etc? Initially I would say that your balance between calcium/alk is why your alk is low, seeing that your calc is 460. But if you've had a calc of 460 and alk of say 9 before, then its something else. Maybe test kit? If it comes down to just dosing more, I personally wouldnt add it to the top-off. Just dose your talk more often with alk.

 

 

The only thing that is different is I moved to a new house. Since moving to the new place my alk has been low. Before move my alk was around 9. Im just going to be continuing to dose and test for a couple days and see if i can get it to level off.

[Lawnman]

What salt you using? Oceanic? I use oceanic which runs high in calcium low in alk. So all I do is dose the alk part of bionic in my top off water and my tank looks stellar.

[Bill Nye]

What salt you using? Oceanic? I use oceanic which runs high in calcium low in alk. So all I do is dose the alk part of bionic in my top off water and my tank looks stellar.

 

 

I use ESV bionic salt system. When I test it out the alk is pretty solid at 9.5. Then I test my tank and its low. I may try dosing a little 2 part in my topoff water but it makes me nervous putting in 2 part at intervals not under my control.

[Lawnman]

If it makes you feel better I fill my top of resvoir with RODI then take my Bionic and just give it a 2-3 second squirt. I never measure it lol.

[Bill Nye]

If it makes you feel better I fill my top of resvoir with RODI then take my Bionic and just give it a 2-3 second squirt. I never measure it lol.

 

 

That does make me feel a little better. When Im dipping I pH adjust my water using the bionic alk, so I could probably just use the same amount in my ATO to keep my alk up. Thanks for the help.

 

edit

 

1 question though, will it stay in suspension when sitting in my ato bottle? The way my ato works is I use air pressure from a pump to push the water into my tank so there isnt any water movement in the bottle.

[ulver982]

How often do you change water? Are you dosing any alk right now? Does the alk drop below 7.5?

 

I run my tank around 7-8 dkh and everything is good as well as great coralline growth. 7.5 is really not that bad. What are you shooting for?

[Bill Nye]

How often do you change water? Are you dosing any alk right now? Does the alk drop below 7.5?

 

I run my tank around 7-8 dkh and everything is good as well as great coralline growth. 7.5 is really not that bad. What are you shooting for?

 

 

I do about a 20 percent change every week. I have not seen it go below 7.5 but I only test about 1 or 2 times a week. I would like to get in the 9 range, but as you said I have not seen any negative effects for low kH. One of my acros browned out when I moved but it is already regaining color and my other acro is encrusting like crazy and has good color.

 

Since I saw it so low ive been dosing 1mL of alk per day. My tank is a 5.5 with an ac 70 mod so when I dose I low ball my water volume to 4 gallons just to be on the safe side. So far I have not seen much improvement so I may up the dose.

[Bill Nye]

Ok so after today I am very confused.

 

I have been dosing 1 mL of the alk part of a 2 part system per day. My alk has not really risen at all. Yesterday I even dosed 2 mL with no affect. I just mixed up a new batch of water and let it aerate for a day. Just got done testing its alk and its a solid 9 - 9.5. What could be causing this problem...its starting to drive me insane ! I highly doubt that 4 ~1 frags of sps could be depleting this much alk per day. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Lawnman]

 

That does make me feel a little better. When Im dipping I pH adjust my water using the bionic alk, so I could probably just use the same amount in my ATO to keep my alk up. Thanks for the help.

 

edit

 

1 question though, will it stay in suspension when sitting in my ato bottle? The way my ato works is I use air pressure from a pump to push the water into my tank so there isnt any water movement in the bottle.

 

I use a maxijet to pump my ATO water into my sump.I don't see how a air lifter pump would be much different.I have no agitation in my ATO chamber.My ATO chamber stays pretty clean so am sure it stays suspended but I use Bionic.Some other brands may differ.Only thing I can think of is to why you ALK is lowering is from evparation.

[Bill Nye]

I use a maxijet to pump my ATO water into my sump.I don't see how a air lifter pump would be much different.I have no agitation in my ATO chamber.My ATO chamber stays pretty clean so am sure it stays suspended but I use Bionic.Some other brands may differ.Only thing I can think of is to why you ALK is lowering is from evparation.

 

Ya I have come to pretty much the same conclusion. I just did a big water change and had to refill my ATO so I added some alk to it. We'll see how it goes.

[ulver982]

If you're testing 1 to 2 times per week and the alk tests 7.5 each time, then that shows your alk is staying pretty stable. I would watch out for chasing after a specific number in alk. I tried to do that in my last tank, and was getting so frustrated trying to keep an alk of 9-10. I was dosing a lot per day trying to get it up. I finally ended up overdosing on alk with a dosing pump and got a white tank and killed a couple SPS. I would also check your mag levels too. If magnesium levels are not correct, you'll have a tough time adjusting your alk levels. What are your calcium levels at?

 

Personally, I would just leave it as is. If your coral are all looking good then why mess it with it? You obviously don't want it to drop below 7. But if you're really set on raising it up, do it slowly and don't get frustrated/carried away (like i did) and just start dosing like crazy to raise it up. I learned the hard way.

[Bill Nye]

That is true. At least its not swinging. I know the minimum range for pH is 7, but when its so low it makes me worry about overnight pH swings. I have an ac 70 refugium with a 5.6k screw in bulb that I could run all night, but I feel like it puts off too much light into my tank and will affect my coral. I think this week im going to lay off dosing anymore than what I put in my ATO and check alk every day till my next water change (saturday). If its staying stable all week I may just leave it where it is.

 

As far as testing mag, I have the salifert test and its usually in the 1360-1400 range.

[ulver982]

That is true. At least its not swinging. I know the minimum range for pH is 7, but when its so low it makes me worry about overnight pH swings. I have an ac 70 refugium with a 5.6k screw in bulb that I could run all night, but I feel like it puts off too much light into my tank and will affect my coral. I think this week im going to lay off dosing anymore than what I put in my ATO and check alk every day till my next water change (saturday). If its staying stable all week I may just leave it where it is.

 

As far as testing mag, I have the salifert test and its usually in the 1360-1400 range.

 

Yah, i know the feeling. I wanted to raise it up past 7 just so I had some give or take. After starting up my newest tank, I monitor my alk every few days and it it's 7 I'll dose a little. Sometimes it even drops to 6. Before I would start freaking if it dropped to 6, but now I just slowly dose to get up to 7-8. I think you have a good plan right now, I'd stick with that and then see how it goes.

 

I would watch the light spill into the tank too. Maybe you could paint the AC70 black and get an underwater light.

[Bill Nye]

Little update.

 

So far this week im staying at 8 kH. Only been 3 days since the water change with ~9-9.5 kH water though. Not sure if the alk supplement in my ATO is working or its just a little higher due to WC.

[ulver982]

That's good news! I'd test it tomorrow and see where it's at. 8 is a good number to be at.

[brandon429]

to see a full tank shot would help can you post one up from today just to get an overall look perspective of the tank?

 

All respiring organisms in the reef emit co2 and metabolic wastes directly into the water column, fish being the most concentrated. This attacks the alkalinity portion, the base, of the solution because its wants to bind up acids (carbonic acid) via natural strong attraction. calcium is not as affected, this could easily be a problem but I need to see a few things before making a guesstimate-ie how heavy is the bioloading, are there pockets of detritus rotting in the system and primarily how old is the tank?

 

This phenomena is extremely serious in a gallon or sub gallon pico as it ages, hugely serious, and not nearly as much in a 5 gallon based on the above params so Im just brainstorming. Aside from water imbalances, dosing imbalances, there are additional biological commands of the alkalinity portion of the caco3 balance and this is one of them.

 

houses can also retain CO2 environmentally depending on the exchange within the house as Randy Holmes F noted in his numerous alkalinity/pH articles on reef central. a bubble test/pH test of your water would help to eliminate this possibility Mr Fosi is really smart at using that kind of test as a guide to pH problems

[Bill Nye]

to see a full tank shot would help can you post one up from today just to get an overall look perspective of the tank?

 

All respiring organisms in the reef emit co2 and metabolic wastes directly into the water column, fish being the most concentrated. This attacks the alkalinity portion, the base, of the solution because its wants to bind up acids (carbonic acid) via natural strong attraction. calcium is not as affected, this could easily be a problem but I need to see a few things before making a guesstimate-ie how heavy is the bioloading, are there pockets of detritus rotting in the system and primarily how old is the tank?

 

This phenomena is extremely serious in a gallon or sub gallon pico as it ages, hugely serious, and not nearly as much in a 5 gallon based on the above params so Im just brainstorming. Aside from water imbalances, dosing imbalances, there are additional biological commands of the alkalinity portion of the caco3 balance and this is one of them.

 

houses can also retain CO2 environmentally depending on the exchange within the house as Randy Holmes F noted in his numerous alkalinity/pH articles on reef central. a bubble test/pH test of your water would help to eliminate this possibility Mr Fosi is really smart at using that kind of test as a guide to pH problems

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I have no fish in my tank and rarely feed my coral. I usually leave 1 or 2 windows open in the fish room with a fan running to circulate the air. Tank is about 5 months old at this point. So far this week its been testing at 8 which is fine for me.

[brandon429]

I re read your post and can see you were basically already taking good care of it and the 8's are just what you'll get for your given set of variables. You know in all the 3 gallon tanks ive done we never even test for calcium and alk we just dose c balance at a given rate and amount 3x weekly and it fixes everything in line across tanks. Don't see why it wouldn't work in a 5, increase the dose 20% and go to town...that can be for the future maybe when its super aged or packed with corals considering its working great now Im glad you don't have to make any changes.

[lohitha]

Darn.. I never tested alk because my test kit doesnt have it. My nano has been running for 5 months now, so far everything is okay. Only issue I had was that my chaeto died after growing vigoursly. No I wonder if I have any Calcium or Alk issues. Better buy a test kit.

 

Can someone suggest a good test kit for Ca/Alk that doesnt cost an arm and a leg? I have regular ph/nitrate/nitrite/ammonia test kit. Thanks!

[Bill Nye]

Darn.. I never tested alk because my test kit doesnt have it. My nano has been running for 5 months now, so far everything is okay. Only issue I had was that my chaeto died after growing vigoursly. No I wonder if I have any Calcium or Alk issues. Better buy a test kit.

 

Can someone suggest a good test kit for Ca/Alk that doesnt cost an arm and a leg? I have regular ph/nitrate/nitrite/ammonia test kit. Thanks!

 

 

I use API test kits for alk and calc. They are fairly accurate for the price point. Unfortunately API doesnt make a Mag kit so your gonna have to spend some money on a Salifert or lamotte kit.