LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color?

[AlanStanwyk]

Neutral whites are quickly displacing cool whites. If you are in need of a little more red in the tank, and improved color rendering, then neutrals can help. Even warm whites in limited numbers can help, but they can quickly overtake a tank. If you want to try it out, swap half the cools for neutrals. That will improve things quite a bit without overpowering anything.

 

Looking back through some of your previous posts, it seems like you may have got your LEDs from reefledlights? They have a tendancy to get higher kelvin cool white tints. North of 7000K IIRC (WA, WB, or WC bins). That will wash out colors in a hurry. To increase the color temperature on white LEDs, the red-orange range of the spectral output is reduced, and it kills color rendering. Most of us use WG bin (6300K) whites, and it's not that washed out. At least, I don't think it's that bad, although I do like neutral whites.

Correct, that is where I got my setup.If that really is the case, maybe ill swap them out with the WG NW. Not that I know anything now but the very basics of LEDs, but at the time I didnt have a clue and went with a 2 to 1 RB to CW ratio, all on seperate dimmable drivers(meanwell). Evil, you think Id be okay swapping just the CW with the NW and keeping the 2 to 1 ratio, or is it better to run an even ratio of RB to NW? When running my CW at capacity it almost overpowers the higher ratio of RB's..Thanks for responses-this thread is the only venue I can find discussing this issue

[evilc66]

If you are running a 2:1 ratio, then that's most likely the major source of the problem. It's just not enough red. Swap all the cool whites for neutrals, and you should be good to go.

 

BTW, there is no such thing as a WG neutral . Cool white XR-E LEDs range from 5000-8000K, with the WG bin being 6300K. Neutral whites are 3700-5300K. We stock the 4C tint neutrals, which are about 4400K.

 

This datasheet shows how all the tint bins are grouped.

 

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLamp7090XR-E_B&L.pdf

[doctaq]

alan just to be clear you are running 2 rb for every cw and you think the whites are too powerful when everything is at max? do the rb each have thier own driver?

[AlanStanwyk]

If you are running a 2:1 ratio, then that's most likely the major source of the problem. It's just not enough red. Swap all the cool whites for neutrals, and you should be good to go.

 

BTW, there is no such thing as a WG neutral . Cool white XR-E LEDs range from 5000-8000K, with the WG bin being 6300K. Neutral whites are 3700-5300K. We stock the 4C tint neutrals, which are about 4400K.

 

This datasheet shows how all the tint bins are grouped.

 

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLamp7090XR-E_B&L.pdf

 

Word, Thanks..Ill swap them out and see how it looks-youre referring to the CREE XRE-4C-Q3 Neutral White? On a side note-saw you carry TV.. Does TV look good in the array? if so, what ratio is usually run?

 

 

 

"just to be clear you are running 2 rb for every cw and you think the whites are too powerful when everything is at max? do the rb each have thier own driver? "

 

( not sure how to multi-quote) Doc, yeah each string of 12, 36 total is on a seperate dimmable meanwell. Was just trying to illustrate that the 12 CW seem powerful enough to work in the 2 to 1 ratio, but that the color seems washed out.Evil suggested the 12 NW instead, which will be a minor fix..If most are running an even ratio of NW to RB though and are happy with the look, Im down to try that as well

[Genj]

The TVs are for adding the 420 nm wavelength to the tank. When the other lights are on, that wavelength is impossible to see. I'm starting with 4 of them on my light, which is made up of 30 LEDs. The TVs are on a 6 LED channel with 4 TV and 2 Cyan. The Cyan may not stick around....

[jfarabaugh]

taken from my build thread

 

Color

 

I am very impressed with the color I am getting versus the standard CW/RB setups that I have seen with my own eyes. Due to the 4 channels I can dial in just about any color of light I want. I can pull some crazy colors out of the corals mixing the 2 blue channels. I discovered late tonight that running the channels evenly gives a very nice color output IMHO. Nothing is washed out and the tank isnt too blue\purple.

As far as the color spectrum is concerned looking at the unit with my analog spectrometer gives me a full and even color spectrum (yes it is analog and yes it was cheap but it gives me an idea of color output and an idea of the intensity of the color bands). The neutral whites handle the yellow and red output. The blues (AKA cool blues) handle some of the cyan/green output. And the violets take care of everything below the blue spectrum. In my opinion these are the colors of LEDs to look at to greatly improve the color aesthetics issues most have with LEDs.

Of course pictures speak a thousand words but trying to capture it just isnt working with my PS camera. Santa brings me a DSLR this week so hopefully I can capture what I am actually seeing very soon.

Here are some pictures with all channels set evenly at maybe 60% (much better quality and color pictures coming soon)

 

[jackjackjack]

sorry if youve listed it above but what do you have on each of the 4 strings?

What drivers is everyone running there tvs on?

[Genj]

I'm running my TV on an ELN-30-48D. It goes from 3v to 48v and maxes out at .63a

[AlanStanwyk]

I'm running my TV on an ELN-30-48D. It goes from 3v to 48v and maxes out at .63a

I have the same drivers, but my power supply is a dimmable, 1.5v to 12v Enercell.. You run your TV's at 48v? Should I be running mine at a higher voltage?

[Genj]

Let me clarify, the ELN-30-48D has the ability to support forward voltage of 3 volts, all the way up to 48 volts. This makes it a good driver to run as little as 1 LED, or as many as 12 (assuming CREE 3w lamps with a 3.X forward voltage rating).

[Dizzle21]

what do you guys think of the cyans? worth adding 1 or 2 on a 12 led array?

[jfarabaugh]

what do you guys think of the cyans? worth adding 1 or 2 on a 12 led array?

 

No

the blue (aka cool blue) can take care of it imo

[OneTrickPony]

What does everyone think of EP-Gs Outdoor white?

 

Cool White 5000 K – 8300 K

Outdoor White 4000 K – 5300 K

Neutral White 3700 K – 5000 K

Warm White 2600 K – 3700 K

[joelsaxton]

I started a new 2.5g pico project. I have 3 RB's at 1000mA and 2 NW's at 700mA. I have not run this light above water yet, but from what I can see, it is still very blue in color. It looks nice, although now I am thinking it might have been better to run the neutrals at 1000mA just like the blues.

[DaveFason]

Joel - Reverse the 1A with the 700mA.

 

-Dave

[joelsaxton]

Joel - Reverse the 1A with the 700mA.

 

-Dave

 

Yeah, I was thinking of doing that.

[joelsaxton]

Joel - Reverse the 1A with the 700mA.

 

-Dave

 

I just swapped wires. Looks a little better now.

[AlanStanwyk]

Without jacking this thread, can you guys critique my build and tell me what you wouldve done differently?

 

36 LEDs

2 RB : 1 CW ratio

70 degree optics

dimmable drivers

 

 

 

Evil previously suggested swapping the CW with NW,which Im going to do asap.Other questions- should the stars be clustered closer together? Im also having some issues with certain corals fading, while others are super colorful: (A purple and green favia is now brownish purple and green, a couple zoa rings are fading) Tried moving them around to find the ideal spot,but no luck in getting the color back yet. Thanks.

[evilc66]

Changing the arrangement wont help that situation. The loss of color was either due to too much light, or poor color rendering from the cool white LEDs.

[JSVAND5]

I have mine set up now. 18 cree RB, 8 NW and 4 CW. The color looks good to me on the corals but the fishes colors are odd. My helfrichi looks like crap under them and my flasher wrasse looked better under the stock PC's. I have the whites turning off an hour before the blues and with just the RB's on the tank looks ridiculous. Pretty much just looks like a black light. Any suggestions for getting closer to the true colors showing in my fish? I am really disappointed with how bad they make my helfrichi look. Should I maybe dump the 4 CW and go with 12 NW's? I am wondering if maybe trying to squeeze a few small T5s in my hood might be worth a try to get the natural colors to come out better?

[joelsaxton]

I have mine set up now. 18 cree RB, 8 NW and 4 CW. The color looks good to me on the corals but the fishes colors are odd. My helfrichi looks like crap under them and my flasher wrasse looked better under the stock PC's. I have the whites turning off an hour before the blues and with just the RB's on the tank looks ridiculous. Pretty much just looks like a black light. Any suggestions for getting closer to the true colors showing in my fish? I am really disappointed with how bad they make my helfrichi look. Should I maybe dump the 4 CW and go with 12 NW's? I am wondering if maybe trying to squeeze a few small T5s in my hood might be worth a try to get the natural colors to come out better?

 

I am using the same 3:2 ratio of RB to NW and I like how it looks. I am actually under-driving the RBs because it was too blue before.

[JSVAND5]

I am using the same 3:2 ratio of RB to NW and I like how it looks. I am actually under-driving the RBs because it was too blue before.

 

Mine are all at 700mA. My drivers are not dimmable. I think I am going to switch out the 4 cw and go with all NW's. Which are the brightest NW's to use?

[joelsaxton]

Mine are all at 700mA. My drivers are not dimmable. I think I am going to switch out the 4 cw and go with all NW's. Which are the brightest NW's to use?

 

I got mine from Ledsupply.com. I think they only sell one kind from CREE, which is the one I got. I have 2 NW's at 1000 mA and 3 RB's at 700mA with a dimmer. Disappointingly, Rapidled.com does not sell NW's.

[AlanStanwyk]

Changing the arrangement wont help that situation. The loss of color was either due to too much light, or poor color rendering from the cool white LEDs.

 

Is the PAR of the RB close to that of CW or NW? Trying to figure out how bright I should run each string. I currently have the RB at capacity, and the CW about 75% . What are the thoughts on T5HO? the lack of shimmer is a bummer but do people have good results wiring in a few LEDs for effect? seriously considering ordering a 6 bulb sunpower until I get this LED retro figured out

[sae647]

the PAR of many blue diodes is higher than white ones. this seems counter intuitive, but the blue diodes usually emit 100% of their light in the photosynthetic spectrum. it seems less weird if you remember that some of the blue T5 bulbs have very high PAR ratings as well.