Do I need patience? or is something wrong?

[lunar]

Okay, trying to figure out if I'm okay and just looking for trouble?

 

JBJ Nano, 12 gal setup - about 5 weeks.

13lb LR

1 Clownfish

4 Nars(sp?) snails

1 Astrea snail

3 blue legged hermit

3 scarlet hermits

1 blue knuckled hermit

 

 

Within the last week, I've lost an astrea snail and 3 marg snails, and lots of algae (esp hair) growing.

 

I do water changes at least once a week. I do every test imaginable and all are within low or 0, except maybe Ph which is 7.7

 

Is this normal? and I'm panicking for nothing - I feel like I'm missing something....

 

thanks for any tips and thoughts.

 

I'm just a nervous new mom I guess :>

 

??? ??? ???

[Fant]

The pH is low, it should be over 8. You may have gone a little fast. algae blooms are common in new systems for the first 6 months to a year. Depends how much your feeding and how often. What source water are you using. Hopefully its Ro/DI or grocery store distilled (which pretty much is ro/sometimes di).

[JLTRUK]

you need to buffer that ph. that should be goal #1. Pick up some seachem marine buffer 8.3.

 

1 gal water changes once a week are good, keep that up

 

I would not panic, just go with it. you'll see as the tank stabalizes and you learn more it will work out well for you.

[nalbar]

no way i would start adding buffer at 5 weeks but that is just me. at that stage the tank is not stable enough to trust readings. and certainly a 7.7 at this stage is nothing to worry about.

 

lunar, you added your fish to soon, but what is done is done. now you have to fight your 'on schedule' algae blooms with a fish adding poop all day to help it grow. do not worry about snail deaths. they happen all the time. perhaps get a phospate pad. but change it FREQUENTLY (every 2-3 days) to prevent nitrate increases. you need to be patient, more patient than normal because of that fish.

 

 

and your clean up crew is woefully light for a 12g. but make sure ammonia is gone before adding more.

 

 

nalbar

[JLTRUK]

nalbar??? your water should be buffered from day 1.

[nalbar]

Originally posted by JLTRUK

nalbar???  your water should be buffered from day 1.

 

 

 

sorry....huh..no.

 

but to each his own. all buffering from day 1 will get you is never knowing what you really have. IMO of course.

 

 

nalbar

[JLTRUK]

you are not making any sense...IMO

[lunar]

thanks for the info.

i've tried a buffer, but haven't been super consistent with it. It'll go up and then right back down. the lfs guy said not to be concerned about it, but everything I read says I should.

 

I feed him once a day, but i'm going to cut back. he didn't eat for the first week, because he wouldn't eat flake or pellet - prefers the brine shrimp - snob. so obviously, he'll survive.

 

Water changes are with water from LFS - so I'm figuring it's the best I can do.

[JLTRUK]

the buffer does not work in one shot only, if your water ph is off you may need to add buffer more than once in order to stabalize (this is per the instructions on the bottle)

 

also make sure you are indeed using a "buffer" not a ph "up" product

[birdman204]

Ummm. Buffering does not have a set "time" in the lifespan of the tank you should start. Some have never had to due to Kalkwasser use or say , using CC as their substrate. Why would you say you can't trust a reading of the tank. Any reading you take will be accurate anytime. That does not mean those readings are not bouncing all over the place. Snail deaths do not happen all the time. I have lost 2 and those were both to hermits. This may be a salinity stablility issue. Water changes will go much farther in the long run than just using a phosphate absorbing material.

You can try a 2 part additive like b ionic and those work fairly good for nano's. I have been using kalkwasser topoff at half strength since the beginning of november with very positive results. As for your Phosphates, kalkwasser will help to precipitate them out of your water as well. Sounds like these may benefit you.

[JLTRUK]

Originally posted by birdman204

Ummm.  Buffering does not have a set "time" in the lifespan of the tank you should start.   Some have never had to due to Kalkwasser use or say , using CC as their substrate.  Why would you say you can't trust a reading of the tank.  Any reading you take will be accurate anytime.  That does not mean those readings are not bouncing all over the place.    Snail deaths do not happen all the time.  I have lost 2 and those were both to hermits.  This may be a salinity stablility issue.   Water changes will go much farther in the long run than just using a phosphate absorbing material.  

You can try a 2 part additive like b ionic and those work fairly good for nano's.   I have been using kalkwasser topoff at half strength since the beginning of november with very positive results.  As for your Phosphates, kalkwasser will help to precipitate them out of your water as well.  Sounds like these may benefit you.

 

thank you, thats what i'm talkin about:)

[nalbar]

JLTRUK, i assume you have already seen this but i will repost it.

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.htm

 

read 'myth 15'. particularly the 'wild ph swings'. i am a firm believer in this 'style' and wish i had patience (and a large tank to spare... hmmm that 45 in the attic might..) to try it. i realize many here do not agree, but like i said, 'to each his own'. and in lunar's particular case there is no dire need for buffering.

 

 

nalbar

[nalbar]

yes bird, what i ment about readings was wild swings making any reading unreliable. i should have posted it that way.

 

like i said, i see no reason for lunar, with what he has in his tank at this time, to start dosing.

 

nalbar

[JLTRUK]

I have read it. Its been posted many times, and I appreciate you linking it for us once again.

 

The problem lunar is facing is that his tank is now stocked. So the problem needs to be taken care of ASAP. you can control the "wild ph swings" with the buffer.

[birdman204]

Nalbar, you seem to be doing a lot of studying and that is good. I think borneman is referring to Quick fix additive such as Marine S.A.T. or any of that other stuff, and I can agree with that.. But I doubt that he would say for you to NOT provide a chemically proper environment for the animals. If the tank isn't chemically correct, how can the bacteria grow. We need to Look at things like low Ca. and High Alk, or vice versa , as much of a problem as really high salinity , or low temps... We fix all these things to create a stable environment. Buffering the tank is just another part of this process.... Maybe shoot Randy Holmes -Farley a question in the Chem forum at RC. com and post results here. Good discussion....

[nalbar]

oh yes, i am certain he is talking about quick fixes and NOT something like kalk for instance. but he specificly says in that myth (on the chart) of taking 3-4 months to get water perameters correct. now, of course, i am NOT talking about salinity here. as we all know, that has to be watched VERY carefully, simply for the evaporation and salt creep issues.

 

i just disagree with telling a beginner who is worried about snail deaths to start dosing is wise. what he needs is patience until his tank stabilizes.

 

personally i hope to never use either kalk or a buffer in my tank(s). but that is easy for me to say because i like the softies better than the 'harder' stuff. my calcium is considered low but everything is growing GREAT. like i said, to each his own.

 

not sure we should have this conversation in this forum and not in the advanced forum

 

nalbar

[JLTRUK]

Originally posted by nalbar

personally i hope to never use either kalk or a buffer in my tank(s)

 

 

well, its gonna be a rough road. you need to buffer your water...this is part of providing a proper environment for your fish.

 

buffering water is not really a choice, you have to do it. ph needs to be at around 8.3. many times it is difficult or this to happen "naturally" in the unnatural fish tank we keep fish in.

[JLTRUK]

Originally posted by nalbar

not sure we should have this conversation in this forum and not in the advanced forum

 

nalbar

 

this is far from an advanced topic...it definately belongs right here. buffering water is rarely a debated topic...

[Whitten]

Here is my two cents.....get that fish out of there, and see if the store will hold on to him for a month or so. When your first starting a reef there are way to many things going to be mucking about and having to worry about fish. Your tank is doing what mine did exactly to a T and I mean to a T. First I had an unexplained snail death, then to get my low 7.7 PH up I added Kalkwasser X) . In the end it resulted in my tank crashing and me having to completly start over again.

Now here is the reason, I had no idea what I was doing with all of those supplements. That coupled with the fact that I had a damsel in there since after the 1st sign of a cycle, caused my tank to go critical in a matter of hours. So that is why I say get that fish out of there for now. Let your tank run with regular water changes, and no fish, hell you could just pull everything out and leave just your rock and sand snails. In time with doing diligent weekly routine 1 gallon changes you will have a a tank that is blossoming with lots of Pod life and coraline algae going nuts. It is at this point that you can add your fish back. With a more mature tank it will be healthier and easier to maintain without having to add all of those supplements.

 

Here is something else that I do, buy water from you local fish store that comes straight from their coral tank. The reason for that is that it will already have the correct salinity, calcium, strontium....etc all of the correct levels of nutirents. Use that premixed water to do your changes, and that will alievieate any guess qork on mixing water. What I had to learn the hard way with these things is to not go charging in and trying to make it perfect immediately.

It , like nature takes time, and a patient person will be most excellently rewarded.

[nalbar]

Originally posted by Whitten

Here is my two cents.....get that fish out of there, and see if the store will hold on to him for a month or so.  When your first starting a reef there are way to many things going to be mucking about and having to worry about fish.  Your tank is doing what mine did exactly to a T and I mean to a T.  First I had an unexplained snail death, then to get my low 7.7 PH up I added Kalkwasser X) .  In the end it resulted in my tank crashing and me having to completly start over again.  

Now here is the reason, I had no idea what I was doing with all of those supplements. That coupled with the fact that I had a damsel in there since after the 1st sign of a cycle, caused my tank to go critical in a matter of hours.  So that is why I say get that fish out of there for now.  Let your tank run with regular water changes, and no fish, hell you could just pull everything out and leave just your rock and sand snails.  In time with doing diligent weekly routine 1 gallon changes you will have a a tank that is blossoming with lots of Pod life and coraline algae going nuts.  It is at this point that you can add your fish back.  With a more mature tank it will be healthier and easier to maintain without having to add all of those supplements.  

 

Here is something else that I do, buy water from you local fish store that comes straight from their coral tank.  The reason for that is that it will already have the correct salinity, calcium, strontium....etc all of the correct levels of nutirents.  Use that premixed water to do your changes, and that will alievieate any guess qork on mixing water.  What I had to learn the hard way with these things is to not go charging in and trying to make it perfect immediately.  

It , like nature takes time, and a patient person will be most excellently rewarded.

 

thank you, thats what i'm talkin about

 

 

nalbar

[JLTRUK]

yah, getting used water from the fish store for your tank.

 

I am at a loss for words...

[nalbar]

well, ya i am not sure on that one.

 

 

nalbar

[JLTRUK]

I have not posted in the beginners section in a while...mainly because of this.

 

good night guys...I no longer have the physical strength to argue on behalf of seachems marine buffer 8.3 (which is NOT KALKWASHER). maybe someone will carry on...I hereby pass the torch.

[Whitten]

Hey, what can I say I'm a newb helping a newb not make the same mistakes that I did.

Lunar the simpler you can make this for yourself the better. The more variables like heat, photo period, water chemistry, and live stock condition that you can control and or get set perfect means less messing with it down the road and more time for the tank to just do it's thing. I can't stress how important it is to have the best heater that money can buy. Even more so than lighting because so long as you tank is stable most anthing will grow, and that mean even coral. I have seen coral thrive under Normal operation flouresent lighting, and while that isn't the best way to have coral, it proves the part that if your heat, salinity, water movement, PH, and calcium levels are good then you are gonna be ok. I wish you the absolute best of luck and hope that we have helped you in some way.

[Whitten]

Oh sorry let me expound on that whole water from the store deal, I was a little un clear. At one of my stores here in ATL, they sell water just like anyone else. But the owner told me in a conversation that I had with her, that if I had such a small tank then there was no reason to mix my own saltwater. I agreed that premixed water was a better idea, but I was having problems with coraline growth from just using regular mix it your own salt. She explaing to me that in alot of stores theirs included they have water that is special only to their coral tanks, as it would make no sense to mix water with all of the added nutrients for corals if it was only to house fish. The water that they mix for the coral tanks wasn't any more expensive or even used for that matter, it just had some extra nutrients. So that is what I bought, just water that was intened to go in a coral tank but instead went to mine out of their big resovoirs from the back.

 

Man so many wprds to explain so little.