tap water or not?

[AZDesertRat]

Copper is only one minor issue with tap water and really not an issue in most public drinking water systems since the EPA Lead and Copper Rule was enacted in 1991.The rule says water utilities must monitor "AT THE TAP" for lead and copper in their consumers pipes. The reason for the at the tap is they are required to test water that has been sitting in the pipes and fixtures at least 8 hours so it is a more realistic test and not just a grab sample. Copper can be removed along wit the residual chlorine with a simple carbon filter.

 

If lead and copper are present above very low levels then the utility must monitor their treated water quality including the pH, Langlier Index and other things to determine if the water is corrosive or tends to scale. If it is corrosive they must provide treatment to raise the pH and to inject chemicals to line the pipes such as orthophosphates or polyphosphates.

 

Here lies one of the problems in reefkeeping, phosphates in quantities like above are not a good thing.

 

They whole idea behind using RO or RO/DI is it gives you consistency, you get the same water quality every time with a properly maintained system. Tap water is inconsistent. Yes it may meet federal drinking water regulations but did you know in many cases federal wastewater regulations are more stringent than drinking water regulations? Sad to say but true.

 

Tap water changes, it can be different 10 minutes from now. A storm blows through, treatment and chemical additions change. Sources or blends change according to seasonal or daily demands, treatmentand quality changes. Joe Contractor down the street digs up the water main causing a backsiphonage incidcent, you have no control over that and probably no knowledge of it until a boil water order hits the papers, TV and radio late that afternoon. Darn, you just filled your tank that morning and its too late......

 

See where I am going with this? For less than $150-$200 you can provide that consistency and keep not only your tank but even your family safe with RO and RO/DI water. Its not worth the risk and those who say otherwise are not being responsible individuals. I am a water treatment plant supervisor andoperator by profession and would not hesitate to drink normal tap water anywhere in the US but I darn sure would not put it in my aquariums, too much invested to take that chance.

[MikeTR]

When someone can show me a TOTM tank runnin on tap... then I'd consider using it for about 1/2 a second before switching back to RO/DI.

[seabass]

Sure, some tap water might cause immediate problems, but some won't. IMO, the issue has to do more with the buildup of undesired elements (and nutrients).

For example, lets say that your treated tap water has only ⅛

^th

the recommended maximum level for an element. Each time you top off to make up for the evaporated water (which is pure), you are adding more of that element. A water change will dilute it some, but will still leave the concentration higher than the initial level in your tap water. This buildup will continue; and over time, will cause problems for numerous elements that we don't even test for.

[MikeTR]

Sure, some tap water might cause immediate problems, but some won't. IMO, the issue has to do more with the buildup of undesired elements (and nutrients).

For example, lets say that your treated tap water has only ⅛

^th

the recommended maximum level for an element. Each time you top off to make up for the evaporated water (which is pure), you are adding more of that element. A water change will dilute it some, but will still leave the concentration higher than the initial level in your tap water. This buildup will continue; and over time, will cause problems for numerous elements that we don't even test for.

yeah.. bad enough we'll have to start dosing mobile 1 for our gulf biotopes..

[StevieT]

yeah.. bad enough we'll have to start dosing mobile 1 for our gulf biotopes..

 

[[]V[]addog]

would these all be the same arguments to using distilled, /spring water?

[AZDesertRat]

Distilled water will be very similar to RO/DI water and normally safe to use. Years ago copper might have been a concern since many distillation units still contained copper coils and piping. Not so today with things like glass lined or epoxy lined vessels and exotic metals like titanium. I rate distilled as my second choice after RO/DI.

Spring water is another story though and should not be used. Spring water normally contains high amounts of minerals (TDS), this is why it tastes so good. The goal here is zero TDS or no minerals that will accumulate in your reef system over time hence the RO/DI process.

[danthenewreefman]

We tested at least 20 different types of "spring" water or bottled water back when I was in school...

 

Generally they're just as dirty as tap water, sometimes they're worse...

 

1 exception:

 

Aquafina, it is RO filtered, and could be used in a reef tank...but it is WAY more expensive than .50 per gallon.

 

 

I have used tap water for the first week when I cycled my first tank....always had problems with the tank even though I did a 100% change to RO water soon after.

[Dizzle21]

That's the way to go.... if you have the space set up a large tub for the fresh rodi - I keep around 50 gallons on hand all the time. I may have a greater need once I have my larger system going then I'll upgrade to another 50 gallons. I use a rubbermaid storage bin... as long as it doesn't get any direct sun light it will hold up just fine. Mine is going on 3 years old.

 

The only problem with tap that I see is it is inconsistent. Even if it ready low on a tds you don't know what you are really getting unless you send a sample off to a lab and pay to have a complete analysis done. Water districts and cities add stuff to tap and more often then not when I see a crappy tank that is having problems the root of the issue is the water.

 

I have a well and on the tds is registers lower then bottled water... I still don't trust it though.

 

 

thanks Pick i need all the advice on works best for the whole setup. i want to do some type of a tap so its easy to use. maybe ill look for a plastic 55g barrel drums

[organism]

Honestly tap water isn't as harmful as everyone says.

 

Um, copper piping on some sink connections and fittings? Chloride, chloramines, additives, heavy metals (copper, etc...), phosphates, the list goes on. There isn't 300 ppm of happy sunshine coming out of the sink, stick to ro/di water or don't keep a reef tank.

 

Just because some people don't have insta-crash and heavy metals coming out of their sinks doesn't mean everyone doesn't have them. If your buddy liked to play with an unloaded gun would you automatically think yours that you hadn't checked wasn't loaded?

[Pickle010]

thanks Pick i need all the advice on works best for the whole setup. i want to do some type of a tap so its easy to use. maybe ill look for a plastic 55g barrel drums

 

 

I looked into food grade barrels a while ago - they just seemed pricey. I elevated my tub on a counter and installed a spigot in the side near the bottom. Makes it easier to fill my 5 gallon jugs to bring in the house for changes and top offs.

[Dizzle21]

ya i found brand new plastic drums with lids for $40 from a local reefer. just dont know were i can put 1 or 2 without my parents gettin pissed..hahah

 

sorry didnt mean to hack this already hacked thread

[AZDesertRat]

I use a 23 gallon Rubbermaid Recycling can. It sits on a stand in the corner of my garage so I can fill jugs or buckets from the valve (I later switched from the pictured valve to a bulkhead and 3/4" ball valve for better flow when filling buckets and jugs) and feeds my sump 30+/- feet away via a peristaltic pump. The RO/DI is controlled by float switches set far enough apart it has to drop 11 gallons before the unit comes back on so TDS creep is not an issue.

[Pickle010]

That's pretty cool.. I wish I could plumb mine into my sump - it's over 100 feet away from my house though.

 

I am going to automate it though... I'd like to get float switches that will turn my ro/di unit on and off so it's constantly topping off the fresh water. It's a PIA to make new water every week especially now that I'm going through about 25 gallons + a week.

[AZDesertRat]

Distance wise 100 feet is not an obstacle if you have a conduit or way to get a 1/4" or 3/8" plastic line between the two locations. My ATO and pump are located at the sump and have no electrical connection to the storage reservoir in the garage. Thats the beauty of a peristaltic pump, it can suck and well as push and mine will pump against 40 psi pressure if needed.

[floridian reefer]

Why is this even a debate.. and why do people keep going on and on with the huge threads explaining the evils of this.

 

DO A DAM SEARCH FFS!!

 

no i did not read the entire thread its the same thread that has been tossed around ALL forums since their inception. (basically)

 

 

sorry dude, dont have as much time as you to read 30,000 pages. i thought this is what these things are for, ask and you shall receive, if you knew it was the same thread thats always comes around why even bother putting in that 2 sense, people have been very helpful and amusing and the you say some stupid stuff like that? so yea just stick with buying from lfs until i get an ro unit basically is what i learned, too inconsistent for me!!! what about using natural sea water from the gulf? beside the oil. why couldnt i just fill up jugs from the beach, not like im going to just wondering?

[Pickle010]

sorry dude, dont have as much time as you to read 30,000 pages. i thought this is what these things are for, ask and you shall receive, if you knew it was the same thread thats always comes around why even bother putting in that 2 sense, people have been very helpful and amusing and the you say some stupid stuff like that? so yea just stick with buying from lfs until i get an ro unit basically is what i learned, too inconsistent for me!!! what about using natural sea water from the gulf? beside the oil. why couldnt i just fill up jugs from the beach, not like im going to just wondering?

 

 

HEY... .this thread is no longer about tap water... it's about optimizing your RO/DI set up. Keep up will you?

 

 

 

 

Distance wise 100 feet is not an obstacle if you have a conduit or way to get a 1/4" or 3/8" plastic line between the two locations. My ATO and pump are located at the sump and have no electrical connection to the storage reservoir in the garage. Thats the beauty of a peristaltic pump, it can suck and well as push and mine will pump against 40 psi pressure if needed.

 

 

It's more a PITA because I would litterally have to dig a trench from where my unit is. HOWEVER, I was just thinking that have a crawl space under the house and could plumb something directly into my top off tank which would only be some 10 feet away.

 

I see another summer project starting here!!!

[floridian reefer]

HEY... .this thread is no longer about tap water... it's about optimizing your RO/DI set up. Keep up will you?

 

 

 

oh my bad

[AZDesertRat]

You really want to mount the RO/DI in a climate controlled area away from temperature extremes and direct lighting. Warm water and sunlight lead to bad things inside the filter housings. Cold temp can freeze and crack the housings, I know both from experience at my old job, we sued to have lots of small systems out in the open for various processes and they did not hold up well..

[Pickle010]

You really want to mount the RO/DI in a climate controlled area away from temperature extremes and direct lighting. Warm water and sunlight lead to bad things inside the filter housings. Cold temp can freeze and crack the housings, I know both from experience at my old job, we sued to have lots of small systems out in the open for various processes and they did not hold up well..

 

 

Yeah I considered that... I had an old unit that was exposed to light through a window and my filters turned green - wasn't pretty.

 

Now my filter sits in an insulated box attached to my shed. It keep it out of the light and keeps the temps stable. Would be easy to make something like that to fit in my crawl space.

[MyHorseZip]

I have a great ghetto RO setup going on. I got one of those Y connectors for garden hoses and put it on the cold side of the water for my washing machine in the laundry room. It conveniently has the same threaded piece as the hose for my RO unit which I have mounted on the wall beside the washer. The waste from the RO goes into the wash basin of the washing machine (waste not, want not).

 

An additional nice feature is that I can set the container I am filling on the washing machine, and if I happen to let it overflow (I mean how many stories have you heard of people flooding their houses this way) it just runs over into the washing machine. It works great.

[AZDesertRat]

Just be careful. A washer tub only holds so much water before it overflows too.

[MyHorseZip]

My RO is only 50 gpd so I would really have to space out for it to overflow the washing machine - but stranger things have happened

[AZDesertRat]

50 GPD treated equals 200 GPD waste or about 8 gallons per hour waste, it happens.

[Alexraptor]

Just adding my voice to the no-tap-water crowd.

 

This was my reef tank a few years ago, ran for 2-3 years exclusively on tap water.

http://aquatic.alexraptor.com/images/reeftank09-29-07.jpg

And then it crashed....

 

Save yourself a heartache, don't touch tap water.