Catspa Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Just curious, how many of u out there use these method, and if so for how long. I've done it many times before, for a couple of minutes, without incedent, (i make sure the ph is 8.3 in the freshwater and that the temp is the same). ** BUT ** if you leave them in to long, you are asking for major trouble - you will see the fish bloat, or implode... So how long is good, but still perfectly safe? any input appreciated, thx. Link to comment
eferna Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 just curious to what you are trying to cure with a freshwater dip. Personally I have not treid it, i usually stick with the medications that seem to work for me. So far I have had no problems with diseases or parasites (fingers crossed) Link to comment
Catspa Posted June 22, 2002 Author Share Posted June 22, 2002 sorry, let me clarify - i usually do a fresh water dip to any new fish i purchase, before i introduce then to my tank. It is my belief is that in doing so, i reduce the chance of the fish carrying any living paracites into my tank. (many paracites and other simple organizoms can not adapt to the quick change in solinity and hence, die) *BUT* BE VERY CAREFULL USING THIS METHOD because you can easily kill you fish if you leave him in too long, the real question is how long is safe? Link to comment
SLOreefer Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 well i have done this in the past and it is not a good idea to go longer than 5 minutes. i would recommend staying near the fish and watching it the whole time because every fish will act differently towards the change in salinity. some fish handle it better than others. Link to comment
Vixyswillie Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Here's the complete scoop on freshwater dipping from Thomas Sasala's Beginning Saltwater FAQ: Bringing the Fish Home Once you get the fish home you should set the bag in the destination tank, thus allowing the temperature to equalize. After about a half hour or so, add a 1/4 cup of tank water to the bag. Repeat this process once every 15 minutes for an hour, removing any water if the bag gets too full. Any water you remove from the bag should be disposed of. It will most likely contain parasites and other bad things. After you have the fish acclimated to your tank's water chemistry, there are a couple of things you can do. You can place the fish directly into the main tank and hope for the best, you can give the fish a freshwater dip and then place it into the tank, or you could place the fish into a quarantine tank. The best scenario is to give the fish a freshwater dip and place it into a quarantine tank. Keep the fish in the quarantine tank for 2 weeks and watch for signs of disease. If the fish gets sick, you can medicate the quarantine tank without affecting the chemistry of the main tank. If you are going to quarantine the fish, you should acclimate the fish to the quarantine tank's chemistry, not the main tank. If you don't use a quarantine tank, then it is a very good idea to give the fish a freshwater bath before placing it into your main tank. The freshwater bath will cause any parasites attached onto the fish to let go and remain in the freshwater (to die a lonely death). Otherwise, parasites left to their own will reproduce very rapidly in captivity and usually infect all the fish in the tank. To give a marine fish a freshwater dip, prepare a container of dechlorinated freshwater with a similar chemistry of the destination tank. That is, make sure the pH and temperature are as close as possible to the destination tank (this is critical!). Remove the fish from the bag and place the fish into the container for 3 to 5 minutes. Watch the fish closely for signs of stress. If the fish stops moving or begins to float, remove it immediately and place it in the destination tank (either the main or quarantine tank). In placing the fish into the freshwater bath, never pour the fish into the container. Use a tupperware container or a net to capture the fish and place it into the dip. The store water should never be introduced to the freshwater bath, or any of your tanks. This water usually contains all sorts of nasty diseases and organisms. If you put the fish into the main tank and it comes down with an illness, it should be removed to a quarantine tank immediately. Do not risk spreading the illness to the other fish in the tank (although it may already be too late). Link to comment
Catspa Posted June 22, 2002 Author Share Posted June 22, 2002 Ok, i must have already read Thmas Sasala's article at some point cause that exactly what i do, Literaly word for word, exactly. Reason i'm asking is because first, I've done it many times before ranging in time between 1-5 minutes, depending on how the fish looks as its taking the treatment. I've used this procedure with Clowns, firefish, grama, dottybacks, damsels, and even hermit crabs (only for about 45 seconds for the hermit crabs) - and have not had any problems, that is, untill i tried it on the last fish i purchased, a cardinal. (Actualy to be truefull, i did have a problem once with my clown - i answered the phone and inadvertently left him in for around 10 min or so - when i cam back one side of his mid section was bloated out quite badly - hes only 1.2" inches and the bloat was the size of a Pee - quite large, at any rate i acted quickly and he made a full recovery) I did a freshwater dip on the cardinal and all appeared fine, i left him in it for just under 5 minutes. He seemed to take it fine. At any rate that was yesterday (last night). Today when i got home from work i took a look at him and i noticed that his eyes looked a bit strange, a bit more bulbus then i remeber them, and there was a red horizontal streek across the bottom of each eye....Sooo now i'm thinking that I may have left him in the dip to long, and that it resulted in his eyes hemereging (to some extent). He still hasn't eaten, but other then that and his eyes, he appears fine. So, unless someone has anything else to add, such as telling me to ralax, that cardinals do have this red streek, the lesson to be learned here is that i would not recomend puting cardinals in freshwater dips, that there eye structure (big and bulbus to begin with) must be especial sensitive. Soo my end conclusion is that if you do use freshwater dips, i would recomend not any longer then 2 minutes to stay of the safe side & would recomend NOT doing any freshwater dips on fish that have large eyes.. you get my point. I'm really upset with the idea that i hurt this fish... I really hope he ends up being ok... So all you out there please learn from my mistake !!!!! thx (Edited by Catspa at 10:07 pm on June 21, 2002) Link to comment
gabe3eb Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 A freshwater dip will really help a new fish, especially a live caught one. I know with my false lemonpeel, you could see some white parasites comming off of the fish. I wouldn't go for longer han 5 minutes though, just watch the fish closely and use good judgement. hth gaber Link to comment
Strife Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 i personally disagree with the freshwater dip procedure.... its always best to find a trusted LFS before buying a fish, so you do not have to do a dip... and if you fish has ich...we all agree that stress causes it...and freshwater will cause more stress... Link to comment
Toyfreek Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Actually strife most of the fish imported to the US have been dipped a few times already. so weather you chose to do it or not they have been through it already. Toy Link to comment
gabe3eb Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Stryf??? You care to give any other reasos as to why a freshwater dip is such a bad thing? All of the best stores do it and advanced aquarists almost always do it in adition to having a quarentene tankfor the fish. I was just wodering, if you since you say it is so stressful if you have anything to back that up. I recently dipped my new angel and it helped get rid of his wart and some wight specks on him. It might have stressed him out just a little bit, but stress is a natural thing and not all stress is bad. Just moving a fish into your tank will cause stress, but we still do that. gaber Link to comment
Strife Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 YES IT WILL CAUSE STRESS IMO.. to inhabitants...and yes...i dont have nothing to back it up...its just part of nature to know that it is stressing out the fish.... dip a saltwaterfish in a freshwater till it starts to panic... ISNT THAT STRESS!!!! there, i backed up my word. all i see here...is an attack towards me...and i have no reasons to argue with all of you...because...you question me before you question yourselves... you ask me to back up my word when i say freshwaterdip will stress the fish....my proof is all hobbyist here will tell you that it will CAUSE STRESS DAMMIT..... before you ask me to back up my word....back yours up first...and think about what you say...so we have no arguements... "It might have stressed him out just a little bit" there you said it yourself....it does cause stress...and thats my point...and i guess that you talk to the fish since you know that the stress is just a lil bit... LOL "but stress is a natural thing and not all stress is bad" "All of the best stores do it" i dont think i had to explain my opinions and you have more to explain here.... toyfreek...you know we will never win argueing with each other...we have already experienced that... but i know you agree with me that it will cause stress... because thats all i had to say...just a point im trying to say (Edited by Stryf3 at 12:17 pm on June 22, 2002) Link to comment
Strife Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 give me a list of stores and suppliers that do it... please... clarify it for me...give me a number too... i want to prove this for myself.... Link to comment
Sahin Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 I havent bought any saltwater fishes yet, but I guess I could give them a freshwater dip fpr about 1 minute max. However, I dont think it will kill as much as you might think. The water differance would probably kill a few surface bacteria on the fish, and thats about it. Best course of action is to quarrantine the fishes for two weeks. Link to comment
Catspa Posted June 23, 2002 Author Share Posted June 23, 2002 Hey, guys/gals lets take it easy, i don't see anyone attacking anyone else, we are all just tring to find answers, and sometimes that requires us to ask where a person got his info..etc.. Yes, of course, diping a marine fish in freshwater will cause some stress, the question is, is it justifiable. It would seem that most say yes, because it reduces the chances of paracitic outbreaks in your tank. So temporarily stressing a fish out once, if it means you reduce the risk of paracites does seem to be reasonable. The main question here should be: 1 - is there any other way of accomplishing what a freshwater dip does, and if so is it safer. Answer - i know there are cemical ways of doing this, like diping the fish in a fermaldihide(sp?) solution (1% or something) or just the use of a quaranteen tank..etc.... p.s. - i've seen first hand what happened to a friends fish, after he diped his fish in a solution that was too concentrated - wasn't pretty. 2. How long should the dip be for? Answere - typicaly under 5 minutes - i'd recomend under 2 minutes 3. Does any one have any date on certain types of fish that respond badly to dips? Aswere in part - Clowns do well, Cardinals do Really BAD. - hence Do NOT do it on a Cardinal Anyone else want to fill in some of the gaps. Peace (Edited by Catspa at 8:44 pm on June 22, 2002) Link to comment
Strife Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 i still dont have my answer... im not trying to argue...i just want any scientific proof that it wont stress fish, and the best fish store does a freshwater dip... its amazing how people can think of one thing and not think of the other... dont we all agree that a sudden change in our tanks environment will cause stress. am i right or not? well from saltwater to freshwater is a huge change in environment....people get away from this....and be succesful with freshwater dip...and i cant argue with that... if you want to dip your fish..then fine...im not against you...but i simply dont recommend it... there are other ways around it....quarantine your fish in a separate tank for a few weeks till you add him in the main tank...thats the safest procedure.... and please...give me a scientific report on how safe freshwater dip is for marine fish... (Edited by Stryf3 at 1:01 am on June 23, 2002) Link to comment
SLOreefer Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 hey sturf..no attacks from here but noone said it wont stress fihs like you said in the last post. it does stress fish and if done improperly it can kill them. but i believe it is a good idea when getting a new fish if you dont have a quarantine. i know that the destributors we buy form at Aquarium Concepts do a freshwater dip before shipment. i cant think of all the names but Pan Ocean is one of them. there are about 2 others that i know of. Link to comment
Strife Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 please read the post first i personally disagree with the freshwater dip procedure.... its always best to find a trusted LFS before buying a fish, so you do not have to do a dip... and if you fish has ich...we all agree that stress causes it...and freshwater will cause more stress... thats what i said...thats my opinion...so why were there comments against me? besides..i just talked to jon, he's a good friend of mine, and he's been working at aquarium concepts for a while now, and he just told me that "NO" their suppliers dont do freshwater dip... can you explain that? if it makes you happy, i can even call them first thing in the morning and personally ask them... Link to comment
Strife Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 please...NO MORE STORIES... just give me scientify report about the subject..before y ou all gang up on me.... and i mean scientify report... not an article which states what a person think... Link to comment
Strife Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 aaahhh...screw this...dont even bother to find articles and stuff....i give up... this is never going to go anywhere...it will just keep...going, going and going...LOL I too have done freshwater dips for new fishes, and fishes with ich...but not anymore...im just trying to stay on the safe side...because nobody knows what the fish actually goes through,and any long term side effects of it..... so you all have fun and happy freshwater dipping... Link to comment
lizbeth Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Stryf3, If it helps I'm not going to do it either. I had an awful experiece with it and I'll not do it again. I feel it stresses the fish big time! Just my opinion. Link to comment
byrself Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 i agree with avoiding freshwater dips. it can be done, but is also stressful imo. i think it's better to have a med tank, and use something like paraguard. if i have a fish with ich, i usually let it recover on it's own, by leaving the tank alone. but if it seems to be getting bad off, i usually will put it in the med tank for a few days. with the paraguard. i use a cheap hang on filter and a heater. that's all. i think leaving your tank and fish alone after an outbreak of ich is the best thing you can do, with the dips and meds as a life saving measure. jmo. Link to comment
Catspa Posted June 23, 2002 Author Share Posted June 23, 2002 Ok, so no one has any specific data on this subject - i.e. how fish adapt to sudden solinity changes. So, obviously, freshwater dips do cause tress on the fish, and some feel that it is justifable and some don't. It depends on the person and the particular circumstances...etc... Things to remember before you consider this procedure: * first, if done incorrectly, it can easily kill a fish horibly, so please do not take this procedure lightly. * Some fish take it better then others. Occelaris(sp?) Clowns take it quite easly. Cardinals DO NOT DO WELL. * Make your own decision, looking at your particular situation, weighing the risks, before you attempt it. * in some instances it is warented, in others it isn't - if you have a quaranteen tank, and don't mind waiting a couple of weeks then, do NOT use a fresh water dip, (p.s. this is the best senario to use, if available) *Lastly, I would STRONGLY, advise not dipping for any longer then 2 minutes. So, no longer then 2 minutes, and not on sensitive fish....etc.. Peace (Edited by Catspa at 11:16 am on June 23, 2002) Link to comment
Sahin Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 I just been to an LFS in Essex, was about an hours drive from London. Anyway, I overheard the LFS guy telling a customer to give the fishes he bought 25 minutes freshwater dip and quarantine for 1 week, highlighting that the dip was very essential and if the customer had a hospital tank to quarantine the fish for a week also. I didnt say anything but did think it was rather a long time and thought it would probably kill the fish but obviously its not the case as the guy had bought a fish for £70 which is about $100US. I guess it does help or they wouldnt be doing it and recommending it. Link to comment
pulpsmack Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 If you have real concerns about introducing ONLY healthy specimins to your tank that carry no parisites than USE THE QUARENTINE METHOD. Freshwater dips can get some parasites, but deeply embedded ones such as amyloodinum can remain. Furthermore you are vastly increasing the stress level of the fish you just bought-- not a good idea at all considering it will only become more suseceptable to any diseases. All things considered, freshwater dips are hardly necessarry. There are simply better, safer, more effective alternatives out there. Link to comment
Toyfreek Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Stryfe, Not arguing with ya just pointing out that almost every importer/wholesaler freshwaterdips thier fish to protect thier systems. I would never say they dont stress the fish I'm just saying any fish at a LFS has a 99% chance it has been dipped at least once. As for listing Wholesalers on a readerboard I think they might not like me posting info to the general public. If you would like a list of wholesalers in your area contact your LFS and ask them for the addresses/phone numbers They might give them to you if you ask nicely. Good luck and relax, Toy Link to comment
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