psions5 Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Well I want to setup a small nano-reef as a display tank in my lounge. I am a expert in freshwater fish, but the equipment and fish bewilder me when it comes to marine! Now the tank I want to use is a Jewel Rekord 60, a 57 litre all in one aquarium. I want to keep a few clowns or maybe a single Gramma lorreto, with some shrimp and a Cleaner fish thing. My lfs claims that if I understock the aquarium, like my plans suggest, then the internal filter should be ok. One thing that is completeley puzzling me though is the coral's and rocks. I was thinking of a fish only setup, but my lfs said that a protien skimmer and better filteration are needed. Im on a real budget here guys so please try to keep costs down for me. I know this must sound so weird, but what are corals, are they like plants or summat. I have got an understanding of natural rock, and how it is a natural filter, and crushed coral sand. I do want to keep corals and all those other weird things, but what do I need? When I buy them do u just "Drop" them in the water? I'd really appreciate any help u can give and advice on equipment. p.s the sandard flourescent light unit would have a Arcadia marine tube fitted instead with a reflector, is this adequate. Link to comment
nalbar Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 you need to do a LOT of reading. many of your questions would be better answered with a decent book. corals are animals not plants. do not trust your LFS, particularly if you are on a budget. go to the educational section of this site. read it. be careful posting on any forum until you have at least the basic idea of what you want because people get REALLY upset sometimes at beginners who don't do their home work. as a start, many feel the 'all in one' systems are no good. i tore mine out and put a HOB and a fuge on. the reasons are complicated. RESEARCH! nalbar Link to comment
tinyreef Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 the first question you should answer is fish-only or reef? the filtration and setup will follow from that beginning. you can have fish in a reef setup but converting from FO to reef is more costly. if costs are such a concern then stick with FO as you can do without lights and live rock. very costly components generally recommended for reef setups. get a decent Hang-On-Back wet/dry filter (e.g. penguin, emperor, tetratec, etc.) and underload like the lfs recommends. btw it's a good idea to always seek multiple sources for info when you hear a recommendation. at least for comparison's sake, whether the source is from the lfs, a friend, books, online forums, or crazy dancing beagles. i'm a protein skimmer advocate but many people do without and instead compensate with water changes. i just don't like the extra hassle (i.e. lazy). for fish, the more filtration the better imo. otoh that's not always the case for reefs and specific biotopes therein tho. good luck! Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 4, 2004 Author Share Posted January 4, 2004 Thanks very much, I will do some more reasearch, but two specific question I wanted to know are: Do I really need a skimmer, and can I use a standard flourescent tube. Link to comment
tinyreef Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 since you're thinking of a fish-only right now, Normal Output fluorescents (aka standard) are fine. i wouldn't recommend them for any corals or photosynthetics tho (maybe macroalgae). i'd recommend using a skimmer. many people here don't use them but i think they make the nano experience much easier. you don't need an top of the line tho, a simple air-driven one is adequate (especially when on a budget). hth Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 4, 2004 Author Share Posted January 4, 2004 Iv'e certainly been doing alot of research this afternoon. I just looked at the air driven skimmers 30Quid, very good. I can easily get one. What sort of pump do you recommend, I allready have A tetratek Ap30 and AP50 running some f/w setups, what sort of pump do I need (i.e output). Second Iv'e been researching into what should go into the tank, I devised this list. All are recomended for begginers and I understand their needs. Flame Goby/Purple Firefish-3"-Needs a PVC hole to hide Gramma Lorreto-2 1/2"-Only one of this species Watchman goby-Needs deep sand (Crushed coral) Pistol shrimp as a mate. Does this sound good, this is sort of F/w stocking levels, well for f/w thats understocked, but is that amount of fish in a 15 (57 litres) gallon ok. Can I have live rock, probably cured Link to comment
johnfruitbat Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Live rock is a neccesary really, it will do most of your filtration, even if you've got a filter. Plus it has been said that fish in a tank without LR never really do as well as with. Especially probably a firefish which is a plankton feeder. Oh and by the way, welcome to Nano-reefing, probably the worst supported hobby in the UK! Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 By the way, I made a mistake, a good one though! I'm not getting a Rekord 60, Im getting a Rekord 70, 70 litres (18 gallon). Im going to invest in cured live rock, I don't want any nasties in my first ever tank. Now live rock is kind of expensive, especially on a budget, so I want to get a lot of pvc tubes, which the gramma and Fire Goby will like to live in, but also it will look like there is more live rock. I'm investing in a bag of fine coral sand, but wanted to know how to cycle my tank, I understand the principle, obviously from F/W, but should I add the crushed sand, then the water, then the live rock, and let it cycle. CAn I expect to find corals e.t.c on live "Cured" Rock, and is a standard marine flourescent w/reflector enough to meet their requirements. Link to comment
johnfruitbat Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Cycling with live rock tends to be nice and easy really. Mix up your water and add to tank and heat etc. Leave it a couple of days with everything running. Salt mix is said to be toxic when you first mix it. If your not using live sand, you can dump that in straight away too, just wash it out first. After the few days add live rock. Then its similar to freshwater cycling. Look for the ammonia and nitrite spikes, when they have gone, start water changes! http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/?article=8 Read that link, it probably explains it better than I can! As for coral on the LR, probably not, some of the higher grade rock you pay twice the price for you may get a bit more. But alot dies off in the cycle anyway. Link to comment
KamDesai Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Your fish aren't going to have the vivid colors you see at your LFS or in books unless you also get an actinic bulb. Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 I di want to try my hand at some inverts and corals, though. My lfs said he recommended starting with mushroom corals and sea squirts, which apparantly filter the water aswell. My nearest marine lfs is the Japaneese Koi Company, Iv'e visited a few times but never looked at the marines, do they stock these "Sea Squirts", plus will I get some red and purple Corraline Algae with the live rock. I would go with uncured rock and get a bit more for my money, I do have spare tanks to isolate it in the form of large plastic tubs, but will they leach chemichals into saltwater, I used them for freshwater fine, they are simialr to those toyboxes from woolworths e.t.c . What are the chances of getting "Creepie" crawleys like mantis shrimp which scare the hell out of me. p.s I wanted to know a little more about the Pistol shrimp, do they "Crack" often and is it loud when they do, won't this stress the other fish. p.s Will pistols go with a gobies or is it just watchman gobies. Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 In addition to the post above, Can I use a Arcadia 15" Blue Actinic Flourescent tube with a matching reflector. Link to comment
KamDesai Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Yes as long as that fits in your hood. I would recommend either one actinic as you have posted above and some powercompacts for the full spectrum light. Usually 3-5 watts per gallon is a good guideline although watts aren't always related to light output Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 Great, but these powercompacts, I intend to make no modifications to the system as Jewels warranty is somewhat tight. Will I be able to get by with just the flourescent tube, I don't intend on keeping many corals e.t.c, only a couple of these "Sea Squirts" and mushrooms. Any Ideas on the post before last? Link to comment
KamDesai Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 It should be fine to just use the flourescent tube if you aren't going to put many corals in. Mushrooms don't need too much light to thrive and are very hardy. But, I would add in an actinic tube if you want to really see the vivid colors of your fish and mushrooms. Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 I WILL be using Actinic flourescent arcadia tubes. Have any of you guys got any ideas on my post about the pistol shrimp and the live rock, a couple of posts up? Link to comment
KamDesai Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I prefer cured rock so that your cycle isn't as drastic and slow, but if you are looking to get more for your money you should be fine either curing them in tupperware tubs. Even after your curing, you will have die-off in the tank when you put the LR in. I am pretty sure you will still have some ammonia spike. So definitely wait to put in the shrooms. Link to comment
Volcom Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Pistol shrimp do not stress fish and they only hook up with a few certain kinds of gobys. They do not pair up with firefish though. If you do get LR there is almost always a chance of getting a mantis shrimp. You almost always get corraline algae on your rock and sea squirts are hard to keep and don't do much for the water quality. Since you cannot keep many corals look at feather dusters. They are very pretty worms that eat small plankton in the water. To keep them you have to dose Phyto Plankton. Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 On a scale of 1-10 what are my chances of finding a mantis shrimp in cured live rock, I had a freind who litterally looked like his finger had been slashed with a knife, he didn't have the heart to kill them, so put them in a tank of their own. How coulkd someone be so stupid to re-arrange rock on the substrate, with about 13 mantis shrimp in a tank. Since seeing what they can do I have a real phobia of them. Is a Watchman goby, preferably a yellow one, suitable to parter with a mantis shrimp. Are plankton, zooanthellae algae e.t.c introduced with live rock. CAn I use Ammo-Lock during the cycle, to avoid killing a few bonuses like polyps on live rock. Link to comment
Empty Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 "Is a Watchman goby, preferably a yellow one, suitable to parter with a mantis shrimp." Yes, the Mantis shrimp will probably like the goby very much. I wouldn't feed him more than one a week, though. ~Empty Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Sorry empty, I meant will a Yellow watchman goby be aprter to a Pistol shrimp, I wouldn't dream of keeping a mantis shrimp, what are my chances of getting one in live rock, cured? Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Sorry Epty, I meant will a Pistol shrimp go with a yellow watchman, I wouldn't keep a mantis shrimp if you paid me! Any Ideas on my question in the last few posts? Link to comment
psions5 Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Sorry about the repeats, Ive been having problems with computer, sorry, any ideas on my post about the Ammo-lock on the previous page? Link to comment
Volcom Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I wouldn't use anything and just let the cycle occur. The less chemicals and additives you add the better. Although there will be some die off, a lot of it will re-grow. About getting a mantis, it really depends where you buy the rock from. Usually there is less of a risk in cured LR. Link to comment
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