A Better Way to Kill Red Slime

[KMitch]

Hey all

 

There are an abundance of theories on how to beat pesky red slime and I wanted to present my new method that I swear by.

 

Background:

My tank was invaded. It started small and I did the common treatments of siphoning it away daily, water changes, turning off the lights for several days, lowering phosphates, etc etc. The whole time it was a one sided battle. I'd siphon and 4 hours later the tank would be covered in sheets of red slime as though I'd never done anything to it in the first place.

 

But How To Respond?

Having had all the basic remedies fail, I decided we needed a stronger treatment. I already protein skim, nitrates were low and no phosphates, so the obvious stuff had all been ruled out. I was prepared to do something I hate... add chemicals to kill! I'm a big believer in natural treatments in the tanks - with the exception of dosing calcium, I don't believe in alot of those additives, I think they are a mask for poor husbandry and there is no such thing as a miracle cure.

 

Red slime remover and those other slime killing products are all essentially an anti-biotic, designed to kill the bacteria. The problem is that once you introduce that kind of stuff, while effective, it does come at a negative cost. The tank will build up an immunity, and anything not killed the first time around won't respond to it later as well. Plus no matter what they say on the box, I fail to believe that there are no adverse side effects to other things in the tank.

 

The Response:

I decided I wanted to introduce some beneficial bacteria that would out compete the red slime and therefor cause it to die off. I knew the worst case would be that adding this bacteria to the tank may lead to a spike in nitrates (which it did, more on that later) but determined it was worth the marginal risk. After doing some reading, I settled on Brightwell Aquatics Microbacter 7 to dose. It wasn't difficult to dose, so I knew I'd be more likely to stay on the regiment, and a large bottle of that was cheaper than the red slime killing stuff.

 

 

I started with the recommended dose of one cap full for every 50 gal per day for two weeks. The first day I siphoned all the gunk away before dosing. By the same time the next day, I had a fraction of the algae that was growing in a day and my water was distinctly clearer. After 4 or 5 days of dosing there wasn't any red slime left. I continued on my dosing regiment and am now on the maintenance dose of once every two weeks.

 

Side Effects

There was one negative side effect, which was a small spike in nitrates. I went from 0-5ppm to 10 fairly quickly, which I guess can be attributed to the breakdown of ammonia in the tank. After doing my weekly water change it is back down where it was before, and I consider this a very minor side effect. On a positive, the water is much clearer (I wouldn't have called it murky before, but this almost makes me want to drink out of my tank) and I'm getting a much thicker goo out of the skimmer than before.

 

I'm sure someone can provide a better explanation of the biology behind it, but I'm sold on the product and will be recommending it to anyone who says they have red slime issues.

[lgreen]

Basically what is happening with this product is that you are adding species of bacteria as well as enzymes that are going to speed up the breakdown of DOC (dissolved organic carbon), reduce nitrate/nitrite/ammonia levels, and it also claims to reduce phosphate levels.

 

Assuming the claims of this product are true, by using it you were able to eliminate a majority of the basic elements in which cyano needs to survive.

 

As with any using any additive as a treatment for cyanobacteria, it is always just going to be somewhat of a temporary fix, even if you are regularly dosing a product like this. It's not addressing the cause of the cyano, so therefore not really a permanent solution.

 

It's more important to find out what caused they cyano in the first place and then fix that issue. Generally it is one or a combination of the following: overstocking, stocking too fast, overfeeding, quality of your water source, and poor circulation.

 

What seems to happen when people get cyano is that there is an accumulation of DOC either on the rock or sand. This accumulation of DOC again is caused by more nutrients being present in the tank than are being processed biologically and or removed by water changes, skimming, and other filtration. You seem to get these pockets of DOC accumulating in dead spots that receive poor circulation. Nothing is preventing this accumulation from occurring in this particular area, so therefore it becomes the perfect feeding ground for the cyano. In my opinion, making sure you have good circulation is an important and often overlooked step in preventing cyano. You have to be able to remove nutrients from the water, but if they are accumulating in dead spots rather than being whipped up into the water column to be removed by mechanical filtration and/or water changes, then you are just providing the ideal environment for any type of algae/cyano to flourish. By providing adequate circulation to eliminate these dead spots it should help keep the nutrients kicked up so they don't accumulate and can more easily be removed. Additionally one needs to make sure they are doing the necessary maintenance to make sure the amount of nutrients being removed from the system is greater than those being added to the system.

[lgreen]

I do agree this is a better way than some of the alternative additives, which are mostly antibiotic based and in my opinion have the potential to do horrible things to your tank. I lost a tank in my noob days using marycin (which is basically what red slime remover is...it's either that or erythromyacin), to treat cyano.

[Phixion]

Great stuff Kmitch. Any way to get this thread stickied??

 

I totally agree with Lgreen though that it's only a crutch till the root of the cause is addressed and remedied. I had MASSIVE cyano back a couple years ago. Battled for a better of 6-7 months before finally breaking down and shaking it using Blue Life Red Slime remover. I had to dose it twice over the course of a week since I had it so severe. But it NEVER returned after that! I did readjust my flow though. But seems like a far better and natural way to beat it. I wonder if this would work to cancel out other algaes besides just cyano, like diatoms and GHA perhaps... I'm considering starting up dosing vodka soon here, but maybe this could be the trick instead. I don't have cyano (some minor GREEN slime however) but my tank just isn't as prestine as it could and used to be... =/

[bluefunelement]

I have a small amount of red slime starting in a lower flow area of the tank - funny thing is it's moving across the bottom but not actually spreading so I don't think it's gonna be a bad one -going back to regular waterchanges, no more stocking, and better flow should all help but if not -rather then opening the red slime remover I'll try this first.

 

Thanks for posting this alt method.

[spanko]

IMO important to also remember that as the cyano dies off it is releasing back into the system what it fed on and more in the first place. The flow aspect would also be important here to ensure this is continuously suspended in the water column and removed by mechanical filtration methods.

[ajmckay]

This is interesting. Actually comes at a good time... I looked at my tank this morning and there is cyano all over the place and spreading...

 

I typically don't have a huge problem, but it's always there in small amounts. Every once in a while though it'll grow out of control until I manually remove it.

 

This sounds like a decent treatment to at least reel it in once it's gotten out of hand.

 

Thank you for sharing.

[nemmy]

I've been dosing MB7 just over a week now, good stuff.

I never had a problem with algae in this tank except in the beginning. I'm just using it to help seed the tank with more beneficial bacteria.

 

Lgreen is correct on the fact that this is just a crutch to hold back the cyano. Yes dosing mb7 is helping your tank deal with the organics that are in the water but they will still build up the same as they did in the beginning. I would up the flow or change the pattern to try to find where the crud is building up.

 

 

Since dosing MB7 my skimmer has been kicking out more than it ever has.

[Phixion]

I have a small amount of red slime starting in a lower flow area of the tank - funny thing is it's moving across the bottom but not actually spreading so I don't think it's gonna be a bad one -going back to regular waterchanges, no more stocking, and better flow should all help but if not -rather then opening the red slime remover I'll try this first.

 

Thanks for posting this alt method.

 

I would first siphon out and stir up (or reverse order actually) the direct area where you see it, then direct more flow to that area to prevent future build up.

[KMitch]

Wow great comments everyone.

 

Yes flow is important, but even then, the toughest and worst red slime problems won't care how much flow is in the tank. I have a MP20 I was running at just shy of full blast plus my return pumps and skimmer (so a good amount of water movement) and it didn't care.

 

On the topic of beating out other algae- I'm sure it has some effect. There's been an increase in the rate at which that lime green crap grows on my glass, but since I've only been using the product for 2 weeks, I'm sure there is some association between the death of one algae and the creation of another. But I'll take a little green glass algae over red slime. I have to give props to Brightwell, they hit the nail on the head with this one.

 

On the note of siphoning it up after it dies off.... thats the thing, I never got 'floaters' of red slime. Although I did siphon it up when I started the treatment, there was a little that grew back, but I think it just died back and didn't 'fall off' the rocks. I was just diggin' in the tank and there isn't a single piece of red slime to be seen. I really should have taken pics of before and after. I fought this stuff for a month and my tank was basically bright red despite trying the 'usual treatments'.

 

K

[Phixion]

Oh I HATE that green coralline on the glass. So hard to get off unless a scraper is used.

 

My cyano floaters when I've had them fortunately all go straight to the rear chambers intake and into my skimmer!

[nemmy]

So im guessing you went with the "high nutrient load" dosage, and then to the "low nutrient load" dosage after the 2 weeks? Are you going to start dosing a carbon source now?

[lgreen]

Wow great comments everyone.

 

Yes flow is important, but even then, the toughest and worst red slime problems won't care how much flow is in the tank. I have a MP20 I was running at just shy of full blast plus my return pumps and skimmer (so a good amount of water movement) and it didn't care.

 

I disagree with that somewhat. Flow should help quite a bit since it is kicking up the organics the algae is feeding on. You have to remove the food source somehow in order to not only kill off any existing red slime, but prevent future outbreaks. A good example...cyano is extremely common in these cube shaped all in one tanks which come stock with very inadequate circulation. Replacing the stock pump and adding additional circulation seems to help.

 

Since this is the first account I have seen of this particular product in aiding with red slime removal, it could just be coincidence, but based on the biological mechanism, it makes sense to me that it could work, and I'd definitely recommend giving it a shot before any kind of red slime remover aka antibiotic.

[KMitch]

I disagree with that somewhat. Flow should help quite a bit since it is kicking up the organics the algae is feeding on. You have to remove the food source somehow in order to not only kill off any existing red slime, but prevent future outbreaks. A good example...cyano is extremely common in these cube shaped all in one tanks which come stock with very inadequate circulation. Replacing the stock pump and adding additional circulation seems to help.

 

Not to argue, but the cyano had got to a point where it was in the direct blast of the MP20 on a rock about 6 inches away and growing like a weed. I don't know if it was just a matter of how well it'd established itself in the rock around or what, but I went through that standard list of fixes including adding some extra pumps in the display and no major impact.

 

Since this is the first account I have seen of this particular product in aiding with red slime removal, it could just be coincidence, but based on the biological mechanism, it makes sense to me that it could work, and I'd definitely recommend giving it a shot before any kind of red slime remover aka antibiotic.

I have to give full credit to the product. I didn't change anything or start anything that I hadn't already been doing for several weeks when I started using the stuff, so it's either purely coincidence that the algae started to drastically die back the same day I started dosing or the biology worked out.

 

So im guessing you went with the "high nutrient load" dosage, and then to the "low nutrient load" dosage after the 2 weeks? Are you going to start dosing a carbon source now?

I started with the one capful per 50gal (My tank with sump is just shy of 50 gals, prob around 45) every day and am now on the dose of one capful every two weeks. I've been dosing the carbon source product made by Brightwell for awhile but haven't ever seen any real effects from it. Vodka dosing makes me nervous (I understand the biology of it, but too much can go wrong and its not worth it). I also have pretty heavy skimming going on - I think thats essential in any tank.

[adinsxq]

cyano is all in the mind man.

[Phixion]

cyano is all in the mind man.

 

Tell that to my brain, Robot!

 

Sticky this thread, y0!!

[spanko]

We all do know, I am taking for granted, that flow is not a "cure" for cyano but a preventative measure to keep the nutrients from concentrating in one spot and fueling an outbreak.........right?

 

 

Just sayin..

[lgreen]

Tell that to my brain, Robot!

 

Sticky this thread, y0!!

 

It's prob not a good idea to sticky a thread promoting a specific product, let alone one that has only one case to support the claim it helps remove cyano.

[lgreen]

We all do know, I am taking for granted, that flow is not a "cure" for cyano but a preventative measure to keep the nutrients from concentrating in one spot and fueling an outbreak.........right?

 

 

Just sayin..

 

It is preventative, but also realize that after cyano processes the nutrients and dies off, a new batch of cyano grows to feed on the nutrients left by the dead cyano. It's a continual process and improving circulation can interrupt that cycle, therefore eliminating it.

[KMitch]

Agree, if a few more people tested this product with success I'd say it'd be worth a sticky, but until we determine it isn't a fluke of kmitch.... haha

 

lgreen - I guess my problem is that there are always going to be some place in the tank where there isn't enough flow to do this- be it in the corner at the top of the glass or behind a rock. And even if flow completely removes the cyano, have you really killed it off or just kept it from growing- and by that I mean isn't the bacteria that is cyano still going to be in the water trying to grow?

[callmesaul8889]

since everyones talking about red slime, the one piece of rock in my tank that i got as dry rock is the only place in my tank with red slime.. possible this rock is releasing nutrients of somekind that the slime is feeding from?

 

-don't mean to hijack just figured this would be a simple answer

[lgreen]

since everyones talking about red slime, the one piece of rock in my tank that i got as dry rock is the only place in my tank with red slime.. possible this rock is releasing nutrients of somekind that the slime is feeding from?

 

-don't mean to hijack just figured this would be a simple answer

 

very possible and likely. i used to see it all the time when i worked at a fish store and people bought dry lace rock.

[callmesaul8889]

very possible and likely. i used to see it all the time when i worked at a fish store and people bought dry lace rock.

 

k thats what i figured, thanks man

[GUSGUS 16]

beware TEXT WALL Getting to Know Cyano

 

Ah yes, the bane of every aquarist, from the humble goldfish tank to the advanced reef or freshwater Takashi Amano style planted aquarium. Even the most diligent hobbyist can suffer from an unsolicited outbreak. What is Cyanobacteria and how does it come to be? How can it be treated and prevented? Fortunately for you and I, Cyanobacteria can easily be avoided. With the proper care and discipline any aquarium can thrive without this nuisance.

 

Most aquarists have encountered it at one point in their hobby if not multiple times. This can often be the final straw that drives a hobbyist to call in professional help. Cyanobacteria is often mistaken for common algae, although that statement would be untrue because Cyanobacteria is both older (some believe 3.5 billion years!) and more abundant. Cyano is often credited for the drastic atmospheric transformation during the Achaean and Proterozoic eras that made our planet habitable to higher life forms. Cyanobacteria has a beneficial side that is often overlooked in the aquarium. Now hear me out before you write off one of natures wonders entirely.

 

Cyanobacteria (in aquariums) only occur in closed environments where there is an overabundance of nutrients i.e. over feeding, too much light, poor filtration, fish overpopulation etc. In the closed aquaria, Cyanobacteria will consume and break down raw detritus into easily removable forms such as ammonia and nitrite. Also Cyanobacteria resides inside plants and some corals. However you may not recognize them because they go by different names. Chloroplasts are what plants use to convert sunlight and other nutrients into food, which is none other than our humble, all too familiar, Cyanobacteria repackaged inside plant cells.

 

Cyanobacteria is present in just about every aquarium system, but they are too small to observe. It is only when they form a colony that they become visible to the naked eye. Cyanobacteria can reproduce asexually, hence its apparent proliferation in the closed system. Cyano cares not where it lives. It has no worries (except us) and roams free to do as it pleases. It will occur in ANY aquarium fresh or saltwater. It will grow over gravel or sand. It will cover both natural rock or wood even your son’s plastic pirate ship will not be spared the wrath of Cyanobacteria. It can look anywhere from a deep blue/green (hence the name cyano is of the Greek root kyanos meaning blue) to a rich Pinot Noir wine, coming from central California somewhere between the Santa Lucia highlands, Monterey and Gonzales County. I digress.

 

Cyano is easily identified by its velvety fickle behavior. It can be removed from the surface it clings to by waving your hands over it. It blankets the aquasquape like natures soft quilt. It quickly breaks apart in “sheets” and not a single algae eater will touch it! Now you may be asking “so what can I do to eliminate nature’s art work?” Ah yes, the sheer irony of keeping an aquarium as a hobby. We take a vessel and fill it with water and animals of our choosing so that we may enjoy nature at its finest in our homes and offices. Yet despite attention to even the most minute detail, nature has a way of letting us know that despite our efforts we are not God. And our little living pictures of life aquatica will do as they please in spite of our direction or approval. Hence the topic at hand: Cyanobacteria.

 

Now, to eliminate this unsightly pest is quite easy and cheap. In fact you may even find yourself saving a few Georges by the time you are done treating. Like I mentioned earlier, without excess nutrients Cyanobacteria and other types of algae will find it very difficult to survive. The animals found in aquaria, even the photosynthetic ones probably do not need as much light, food or fertilizer as you are giving them. Six hours of light is plenty(in most cases). If you are away all day, then simply set a timer or manually turn on your lights at say five and turn them off at eleven pm. The amount of food your particular system requires is unique to you. However fine tuning feeding and supplement addition to just what is needed and no more is a skill that can only be acquired by careful observation of your system. If you are not sure about this stop by Aquatic Warehouse or any local fish store (LFS) and a technician will be happy to go over your individual needs. And of course water changes.

 

As a service technician, I have encountered many aquariums with this problem. By following the aforementioned steps I have been able to rid these systems of their affliction within three to four weeks. However there is the occasional stubborn system that requires a little more effort. Usually this means that the source of excess nutrients has been overlooked. Now we need to put on our detective hats and think like Arthur Conan Doyle. Is there a dead snail somewhere? Perhaps an unaccounted for fish? How long has it been since you changed your phosphate remover? Your carbon? What does your water quality look like? Are you using tap water? All of these are possible contributors to incubating our persistent slimy foe. Be sure to siphon out as much of it as you can. Does your system have a NRS (nitrogen reduction system)? If so (very carefully) check for tears in the netting. This can cause an imbalance of aerobic to anaerobic bacteria that can obviously wreak havoc on any system. Do you have a wet /dry sump or built-in filter? When was the last time you added beneficial bacteria? Do you have an undergravel filter? That could be adding to the problem as well.

 

If even all of these possibilities check out and you still have a problem then it is time to resort to… [drum roll]…the dreaded chemicals. Fortunately for you and I, they are quite effective. However as with all chemicals, follow the dosing directions exactly according to the packaging, this is very important. Since Cyanobacteria is a bacteria what better to treat it with than an antibacterial! Erythromycin is very effective. To date I have not encountered a strand of cyano that did not die off within six days of using this stuff. Now be sure to dose for the recommended seven to ten days before ending treatment even if your case of cyano is completely gone before then. Remember just like penicillin or any other antibiotic drug there is the potential for resistance to occur in your aquarium just like in your body. And who wants antibiotic resistant Cyanobacteria other than a terrorist?

 

After you are done with treatment, be sure to perform a 25% to 40% water change and dose heavily with beneficial bacteria less we risk secondary problems like infections to the fish or a mass die off because of the lack of beneficial nitro - bacter.

 

What about those hobbyist who happen to have those pesky invertebrates that constantly hinder our efforts to quickly and easily solve these problems with chemicals i.e., corals, shrimp and live plants? No worries, you are in luck! There are several brands of treatment available that are erythromycin free. Two brands come to mind: Boyd Enterprise’s Chemi Clean and Blue Life’s Red Slime Control. I have used the former and found it quite effective. Sometimes it may take several doses. But again I emphasize that these should be a method of last resort. Follow the directions and be sure to dose with beneficial bacteria when the treatment is finished. Also I have lost a few more sensitive species of shrimp after treatment. Weighing the pros and cons, the shrimp (sorry little guys) it was a fair trade I was willing to make.

 

So every now and then we all get a little sloppy and lazy. The occasional Cyanobacteria outbreak will be no hindrance to the armed hobbyist. A few water changes, a little skimping on supplements and food and the cyano should be gone in no time. With the proper knowledge, we can be ready to face any challenge our aquatic worlds throw at us. Let cyano bother you no more. However the day that it crawls up your bathroom sink and eats your cat, you have much bigger problem. lolxxx

[Weetabix7]

^^^^^Aaaaaarrrggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^