Coral Growth Under LED's

[kgbenson]

By the time they need replacing there will probally be newer technology that will be even brighter

 

 

Will we need something brighter? I think we need better spectra first. We seem to have all the photos we need, now we need the right combination of photons, and we need to know which corals prefer which spectra, I doubt they are all the same. There is too much speculation about this and too little data.

 

 

Keith

[varanus37]

The only way I could see needing something brighter is as a replacement for 400 and 1000w halides. Basically lighting for the monster tanks and indoor pond types. A more energy efficient lighting option for really big tanks would greatly decrease their maintenance costs. That could possibly allow more people to have the really large tanks which would facilitate the potential for the active breeding of the larger popular fishes (tangs, etc.). How kewl would it be if some place like ORA offered an assortment of tangs with their clowns so we didn't have to import stuff like that?

 

Sorry, random thought.

 

Bill

[Jsnyder]

I've noted color shifts in most of my lps, mushrooms and ricordia shrank untill moved to a shaded area. sps continue to do well and have excellent color. I love the leds and they work very well. no problems.

 

Blasto wellsi

before

after

4 or 5 babys since led

pocillipora

before

after

[redfishsc]

Very nice, Jsnyder!!!

[Kettle2]

How many LEDs and would I need to cover a tank 17" long 8" wide and 12" deep? I will be keeping SPS.

[coolwaters]

Aren't they good for ~50,000 hours? 50000/12/365= 11.4 YEARS

 

at 350mA and 60c running temp the lifespan is 142,000hours-ish

700mA at 60c is about 98,000hours

 

i got mine running at about 30c at 700mA. cant even imagine how long thats going to be...

i'll probably upgrade to the 667lumen per watt LED by then.

 

about growth. lets just say i wouldnt be able to have some of the livestock right now without it.

my water is pretty bad (im going to be honest and say im lazy to change/test my water)

but i got 1 head of duncan to 25+ in about 3months.

going to see if it looks nice today so i can take a pic.

[MikeTR]

As for the zoas.. i'm having the same experience.. shrinking/not opening. The past few weeks I had cranked the LEDs all the way as I started to see some browning in the SPS.. ended up backing off a bit and now the zoas look much better... the zoas were getting about 150-180 par.. now more like high 80-90. Ricordeas have shrunk a bit so i've moved them closer to the edges of the tank and they look better also.

[evilc66]

How many LEDs and would I need to cover a tank 17" long 8" wide and 12" deep? I will be keeping SPS.

 

Not exactly the right thread to be asking this, but a 12 LED array (6x2) should be more than enough.

[mrbigshot]

I just have no clue what depth my corals are found at, and even then, I'm not sure how to interpret it. How blue is the ocean at, say, 5 meters (and what is the PAR range for that depth?) 10 meters?

 

concentrate on the IA and IB columns, that's what most of the water of reefs around the world is considered.

the readings are in microeinsteins, they directly convert to common par readings (1 par=1 microeinstein)

the depth is in meters- 1 meter is 3.28 feet.

[redfishsc]

Can't see the chart, they don't allow hotlinking from AA mag.

 

Just post a URL link, that should work with a click.

[plantarms]

i have seen just like others that my zoas have shrunk down under the LED's so i rearranged some rockwork to make more of a shaded area for them. everything else is looking great, especially the trumpet coral and orange monti cap!

[MikeTR]

Update... got more growth.. still have little zoas.. color on the SPS sucks.. gonna pick up a halide tonight or tomorrow to see if it's the lighting.

[acropora1981]

1 head of duncan to 25+ in about 3months.

 

I dunn beleive you.

[cptbjorn]

I started dosing aquavitro fuel in my ATO water, started feeding phyto and oyster feast, and added chemi-pure elite in my pico about a month ago and I believe it has helped a lot with SPS coloration and things are still improving. I added a bunch of SPS in December and by the end of January most of it was browned or bleached to some extent but most everything is looking at least somewhat better.

 

I don't know if they just needed to get used to the light or if the fuel or chemi-pure did it but I have a happy clam and 13/15 mostly happy SPS frags in my pico along with a bunch of softies and LPS that are just exploding under LEDs.

[evilc66]

Update... got more growth.. still have little zoas.. color on the SPS sucks.. gonna pick up a halide tonight or tomorrow to see if it's the lighting.

 

Don't expect immediate results. It could take months for the color to change under different lighting. Remember, water parameters need to be in proper order before you make too many rash decisions. I may have missed something from earlier in the discussion, but have you made sure that you don't have the lights up too high? Small zoas is from really high light. That could also be bleaching the sps.

[McJosh13]

It seems that a mixture of RB and W LEDs produce all of the wavelengths of a good T5 or MH fixture in high levels except for those below 420nm. I wonder if this is the reason for differences in coral growth/coloration/extension. I'm suprised more studies (or any?) have been done on this subject.

[evilc66]

Working on that, but more into longwave UV, rather than shortwave visible light.

[blasterman]

It seems that a mixture of RB and W LEDs produce all of the wavelengths of a good T5 or MH fixture in high levels except for those below 420nm.

 

Exactly what type of MH or T5 fixture are you talking about? 14-20k metal halide sources are almost entirely dominated by deep blue light. Want links to the graphs? Occasionally a smidge in the green and orange spectrum, but that's it.

 

The cool white LEDs we use as base lighting are roughly equivelant to the spectral peaks of a 6000k metal halide or fluorescent. However, hardly anybody uses a 6000k MH or fluorescent source because they don't make colors glow like a frikken black lite at a Disney Store even though they supply far larger amounts of PAR per watt. So, when we buy frags grown under a 400watt metal halide with 95% of it's PAR energy blasting below 470nm to make glowing colors suddenly we blame the LEDs.

 

Adding blue LEDs to cool white LEDs doesn't make them simulate a MH or T5 14-20k light source. The LEDs are throwing far higher levels of cyan, green, and even orange light, which are almost entirely zero in the high K MH or T5 sources. Green and even yellow light is present in equatorial reefs at significant depths. Some of you seem to believe that below 5feet in the ocean only 450nm light exists. Hell, why bother with MH or T5 light sources at all. If you just want 440nm 20k light light just run purple neon tubes over your tank.

 

All the SPS frags I've bought from MH dominated tanks have undergone the same process. They first turn brown/orange as the zooxanthellae algae hit a growth spurt from the sudden availability of longer wavelength light, and then calm down as the coral ejects excessive algae to balance things. Other protection pigments are the result of 420-440nm light, which is present with MH and some T5, but not LED unless we add UV lights. Larger zoas will tend to shrivel and bend downward if light is too high. Smaller Zoas don't seem to care.

 

IMHO, I'd rather have healthy coral getting the light it's evolved to use rather fake light that doesn't exist in nature from Walt Disney certified metal halides and actinic tubes. Also, more significantly, I've noticed a distinct pattern over the years that those reefers running corals under high K (+14k) light sources) seem to be having far more acclimation issues than those running 10k and lower. Changing a simple bulb has more drama and possible variables than changing the control rods at a nuclear plant. Go figure, and good riddence.

 

And last, an Acropora that suddenly bleaches might just not be having a problem with the lighting.

[coolwaters]

I dunn beleive you.

 

old pic.

 

mainly cuz i fed the hell out of it. now i stopped cuz i got lazy/no time. also waiting for it to extend. the more i feed the more heads pop out which makes it impossible to frag.

(cant seem to find my shot of the single head.)

 

just take my word for it

[MikeTR]

Well..I bit the bullet and switched to a 70W sunpod fixture.. noticed a huge difference in my zoas.. all of them look relieved which means I was probably cooking things. Going to get the par meter back from our local marine club and compare levels. Not ready to throw in the towel yet with the LEDs... but i am seeing cooler tank temps with open top..just means add better fans to the hood stupid.

[plantarms]

i think i might have started to kick my LED lighting up too high, my zoas have all gotten a lot smaller even though they're on the sandbed, my gsp polyps looked a little curled if you know what i mean, and my orange monti cap has a small bleached spot although that may be due to some calcium issues i've been having. anyway i'm going to cut back from about 80% of light to about 50% and see how it does.

 

Setup: 4 Q5 XR-E and 4 RB XR-E light fixture is 10'' from the sandbed, tank is 8'' deep

[franklypre]

So is it safe to say that MH and T5s are still the best choice, atleast for now. I have none duncans to grow in several different types of light, it seems to depend more on feeding much like there IMO relative the sun coral. Really they look ALOT alike the duncans can use some light though.

[moto826]

so a zoa tank with sps i should use a halide is what i got from what i read

[redfishsc]

Not necessarily. I think part of the issue with zoanthids is that folks may have had the LED's turned up too high, and maybe too fast (ie, didn't acclimate them slowly to the high light).

 

 

I have a tank full of healthy zoanthids and SPS but I'm using a combination of blue LED (actinics) and a 250w Phoenix halide retro. Insane amounts of light, zoanthids happy as they can be.... but new additions to the tank will wither and die if I don't put them in a very shaded spot.

[coolwaters]

Not necessarily. I think part of the issue with zoanthids is that folks may have had the LED's turned up too high, and maybe too fast (ie, didn't acclimate them slowly to the high light).

 

 

I have a tank full of healthy zoanthids and SPS but I'm using a combination of blue LED (actinics) and a 250w Phoenix halide retro. Insane amounts of light, zoanthids happy as they can be.... but new additions to the tank will wither and die if I don't put them in a very shaded spot.

 

yeah even my new maxima was afraid of the LEDs. but it got used to it. i keep my zoas as far as i can from the LEDs but they do fine up close. their just a lot smaller.