Coral Growth Under LED's

[plantarms]

Ive had mixed experiences with my LED setup over my nano/pico. Its a 12" cube (12x12x9" display area) with 5 CREE XR-E R2 white and 5 CREE XR-E Royal Blue. The whites are WC bin and a higher colour temperature to the more common WG's. I think they are pretty close to the high end of the bin at around 9-10,000k.

 

I only keep sofites and LPS and have found that the LEDs are way overkill in terms of output for my setup. I have them turned down to about 30% and have had amazing growth (too much) on my xenia and GSP. My candycane is growing well and has doubled in size from 2 to 4 heads in a couple of months. I have had the same issue with my zoas that others have mentioned where they have shrunk, presumably because of the abundance of light as they have reproduced rapidly from around 10 to 40 heads.

 

I can also confirm the difficulty in taking accurate photos with royal blue LEDs. They look great in the flesh but its frustrating not being able to share. Maybe in time someone will come up with a way to overcome this.

 

have the zoas lost any coloration from the led's or have they just decreased in size?

[Dave_uk]

have the zoas lost any coloration from the led's or have they just decreased in size?

 

They have just decreased in size but they are just the brown/green variety so dont have much colour to lose.

[Weetabix7]

do! aqua 25c?

 

Nope, it's the 10" cube that schg sold in order to get his current tank.

[plantarms]

so basically what i've gathered in terms of coral growth and behavior under LED's is that most zoas/mushrooms/ricordea become smaller due to the higher par levels that create a diminished need for surface area for photosynthesis, however the growth rate is very fast. most sps and lps typically have very high growth rates under LED lighting too, however sometimes the colors can fade. obviously these are just generalizations that have not been tested and they could be completely wrong, let me know what you think!

[redfishsc]

I can't confirm any of that (yet) but I suspect that a lot of the intensity issue and shriveled soft corals might be lessened if we had a higher-K rated white LED instead of 6500, and if we used more blue than just 50/50.

 

I've seen a lot of soft corals "hunker down" under low K rated lighting, and the more blue (ie, higher K rated) something is, the more open they tend to be. Same is true for some LPS like euphyllias.

 

Again, it's just a theory from a dude who doesn't even have LED's yet, but this principle has shown to be true for T5's and halides, so I'd assume it to be true for LED's also.

[supernip]

how interesting, can you provide evidence for this? I'd like to read it

[evilc66]

I can't confirm any of that (yet) but I suspect that a lot of the intensity issue and shriveled soft corals might be lessened if we had a higher-K rated white LED instead of 6500, and if we used more blue than just 50/50.

 

I've seen a lot of soft corals "hunker down" under low K rated lighting, and the more blue (ie, higher K rated) something is, the more open they tend to be. Same is true for some LPS like euphyllias.

 

Again, it's just a theory from a dude who doesn't even have LED's yet, but this principle has shown to be true for T5's and halides, so I'd assume it to be true for LED's also.

 

I'd be willing to bet that the opposite is true. More blue = more PAR = smaller corals. Changing the kelvin on the whites won't add more blue. It just takes away some green and red.

[Dave_uk]

The WC bin LEDs I used are a higher colour temp than most and my zoas still shrivled up.

[redfishsc]

I'd be willing to bet that the opposite is true. More blue = more PAR = smaller corals. Changing the kelvin on the whites won't add more blue. It just takes away some green and red.

 

 

I'm not convinced that it's necessarily PAR output that's causing them to shrivel (ie, photoinhibition). I know if I load my T5 setup with the Current USA 10,000K's, my polyp extension is like half what it should be, even after weeks of acclimation.... and even though the Current bulb is a pathetic PAR producer. Put back all the Aquablues and Blue+ and polyps are happier.

 

I am suspecting that it's the yellow-orange-red wavelengths that's causing them to shrink up. There will be a certain correlation between higher Y-O-R wavelengths and higher PAR since Y-O-R light "is" a PAR producing spectrum. Why this happens I really don't know, but it's what I've seen. I've tried to grow mushrooms under 6500K PC's before and they just wither and die.

 

I just think that the more Y-O-R light that any given bulb produces, the more likely the polyp extension will be reduced.

 

 

(granted I know we can fry our corals with blues also, causing photoinhibition).

[deepdvnarq]

you would have to compare the spectrum of the lights vs the CW LED. just because its 6500k doesn't mean that they all have the same amount of red, orange, yellow. here is the spectrum for a (pg5)white cree. you can see that it has more of the blue spectrum than it does the red. orange, yellow. you will have to compare that with those of your other bulbs that you tested.

[minimonsterLED]

so basically what i've gathered in terms of coral growth and behavior under LED's is that most zoas/mushrooms/ricordea become smaller due to the higher par levels that create a diminished need for surface area for photosynthesis, however the growth rate is very fast. most sps and lps typically have very high growth rates under LED lighting too, however sometimes the colors can fade. obviously these are just generalizations that have not been tested and they could be completely wrong, let me know what you think!

 

Depends on the Zoos, My Green polyp/eagle eye zoos are cramped but opening to thier full extent, where as my Fire and Ice (which are multiplying exponentially) are opening big and pretty (especially the ones higher in the tank.) Every coral is maintaining stunning color.

 

On another note, i mentioned i was keeping an eye on my Monti Cap, and it's exciting to report that the radiant green color that became washed out and brownish is now returning, and it even has these greenish white polyps finally appearing. The rim is also turning purple, I'm excited to see it when it fully colors up.

 

Very satisfied with LED lighting.

[stvjohnsn]

I'm having some mixed coloration results as well. I have a couple acros that aren't really showing much color at all, but my green monti cap and orange monti cap are really colored nicely. All of my acans color up nicely too. I'm becoming less and less of an acro fan so I'll probably just take them out and let the montis take over.

[plantarms]

Depends on the Zoos, My Green polyp/eagle eye zoos are cramped but opening to thier full extent, where as my Fire and Ice (which are multiplying exponentially) are opening big and pretty (especially the ones higher in the tank.) Every coral is maintaining stunning color.

 

On another note, i mentioned i was keeping an eye on my Monti Cap, and it's exciting to report that the radiant green color that became washed out and brownish is now returning, and it even has these greenish white polyps finally appearing. The rim is also turning purple, I'm excited to see it when it fully colors up.

 

Very satisfied with LED lighting.

 

it seems like you found a perfect balance with your lighting, w/ the 9 LED's on a ten gallon. i think most of the time in an attempt to get an even spread a large amount of LED's are used which results in an intense lighting environment for the corals especially if you do not have dimming capability

[minimonsterLED]

it seems like you found a perfect balance with your lighting, w/ the 9 LED's on a ten gallon. i think most of the time in an attempt to get an even spread a large amount of LED's are used which results in an intense lighting environment for the corals especially if you do not have dimming capability

 

Sorry for the confusion...10L is ten liters...2.5 gallons, 12x6x8 (i realized that 10L could also mean ten long when you said this)

[plantarms]

oh haha got it!

[Weetabix7]

I'd really be interested in specifically hearing how corals respond to the UV and Red LED's.

Anyone have feedback specifically on that?

Evilc?

[evilc66]

I have plans for tests for this, but no time to execute. Soon hopefully

[Weetabix7]

I have plans for tests for this, but no time to execute. Soon hopefully

 

I look forward to seeing the results when you are able to find the time.

[evilc66]

Me too

[redfishsc]

I can't recall the name of the experiment, but something like this has been done.

 

They used waterproof LED's (like a 3mm or 5mm) and basically isolated an SPS specie and blasted them with point-blank light that was blue, red, green, and I think orange and UV also.

 

The final outcome was that the red basically bleached the coral, the blue grew it very nicely, and the others grew the coral "kinda iffy" to use precise scientific terms.

 

I tried to google it but there's too much LED chatter to find it. It may be in the depths of RK Magazine archives.

 

 

 

Your mileage may vary

[c_k_kuehne]

I wonder if some of this has to do with what region in the world the corals came from.

 

A few years ago I was on a dive trip on the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico. On the inshore side of the reef there was the most beautiful ricordea. Huge, bright greens, blues, and oranges. These were all in waters from 5' to 15' of depth. The PAR rating of the sun at those depths must have been off the charts,I know cause I was sun burnt to hell

[redfishsc]

Yes, you are 100% correct C_K.

 

I think, though, it has more to do with depth than region (although that can also be a factor).

 

The deeper a specie tends to be found at, the more blue they are more likely to prefer and respond to (my assumption).

 

I just have no clue what depth my corals are found at, and even then, I'm not sure how to interpret it. How blue is the ocean at, say, 5 meters (and what is the PAR range for that depth?) 10 meters?

[MikeTR]

Noticed my hammer has gotten a lot greener and 1 head has started to split again.. only had the LEDs on for a few weeks.

[rtparty]

Red,

 

See if this link will work for you. In the second post on the page you will see pictures that show what you are looking for. Red light is all but gone by 15 feet.

 

http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35777

 

In speaking with Adam Blundell he says the majority of our corals are collected from 0 to 20 feet. Most collectors don't use scuba tanks and therefore 20 feet is about as far as they can dive. I don't know of any data that proves that but he is very well trusted in the reefing society.

 

I agree though that most corals do better under blue lighting. I am not convinced that LED can keep SPS colorful and happy but I do think it is just a matter of time until we are all switching to LED in the future.

 

Hope that helps.

[cptbjorn]

I posted this in my thread but I figured I'd post it here too, I've been getting decent growth under LEDs and my whites are WC tint so I have even less red than most of the builds here using WG tints. I'm planning on adding a red or an RGB LED at some point but it's pretty far down my list; I think my corals are happy with the light as it is.

 

Pic is 7 weeks worth of growth on two new acan frags. The green was freshly fragged through the middle of the polyp when I got it so it took a while to heal but it is growing right along with the red one now.