Help with plumbing please

[Carlton'sTank]

Okay, I got an older 37 gallon oceanic tank that is a cube. It came predrilled with bulkheads and I figured that the tank is setup for a sump/fuge so I might as well go for it.

 

I don't know about standard sizes, but from what I read on here I see that the drain is usually 1" and the return is 3/4. I don't know if my eyes were playing tricks on my but it looks like my bulkheads have the measurements of 1 1/4 for drain and 1" return and they are thread/thread. From this point I kind of get lost. I want to hard plumb it the right way, but I need some advice. SPECIFICALLY on a fail safe in case of power outage. The sump/fuge is going to be 10 gallons and I am hoping to have cheato in the fuge along with the return pump and enough space to run a little knock off skimmer about 50% of the time. I am going to buy acrylic and create the baffles on an old 10 gallon aga I have lying around. I just need some input from some pros. Please give the information as descriptive as possible. I am a way better visual learner. Once I see it, I can do it.

 

Pump suggestions would also be cool. I am not looking to get the best out there, just something that will be reliable and will do the job, I plan to have a couple koralias in the actual tank for flow.

[chaostactics]

A simple mag pump would do well for a return in the 500-700 gph range. You could also spoil yourself with an eheim pump.

 

Look up external stand pipe, that is what I'd recommend for your drain. The way a drain return system works is simplified as the following. Your drain is going to pull roughly 500-800 gph based on being 1.5" but measuring will tell you for sure what the diameter is. You never want to put water back in (return) the tank faster than your tank can drain it. Make sure with the power is cut off your sump has room to spare once the tank is done passively draining/siphoning. Make sure you use siphon break hole(s) on your return.

 

Thats my advice, feel free to pm me with any more questions amd ask more questions lots and lots of them.

[Urchinhead]

There is no such thing as a fail safe. About the only thing you can do is make sure that your overflow only drains out the amount of water volume that your fuge can hold plus the volume from the syphon that your return line will create when the power fails.

 

For example if your overflow and return ended up draining 2" of water volume and your tank was 24"l x 18"w x 20"d you will be draining (24*18*2)/231=3.74 gallons of water. So you will need to leave room for 3.74 gallons of water in your fuge after you put in the cheato, sand, live rock, etc.

 

As to return pump... It will depend on your plumbing. A 1" drain line can handle 600 gallons of water per hour. This number decreases as you add 90* bends, gate valves, ball valves, 45* bends etc. At the minimum I would have a gate valve in the system which will allow you to fine tune the drain amount to match the return pump amount. I would also use the calculator over at reef central to figure out what pump works best for you based on how you plumb things.

[Carlton'sTank]

Thanks for the info. As for the return, where do I put the siphon break holes and what are the nozzles called that are put the water back into your tank. They are black and you can use them to direct flow. I have one on my AP24, but I don't know the name. Are sizes standard on those or is there a special size I should get to more easily adapt to my plumbing.

[Carlton'sTank]

By looking at other threads it seems like some people try to make plumbing into an art form. What is wrong with simplicity? I serious just want to make it easy as possible with still be functionable. I want my plumbing to have what it absolutely needs and keep it fairly simple.

 

So, I need to find an external stand pipe. A gate valve ( do they come in pvc?). What is used to secure pipes? I don't want to use anything that will deposit unwanted chemicals. Pump. Nozzle thing that disperse water into display and.......?

[chaostactics]

The nozzels you're talking about are called locline and yes there are pvc gate valves (your local HD, Lowes, Ace, etc. should carry them)

[Carlton'sTank]

Thanks. I am ready to start plumbing.....oh wait! What do you use to secure the plumbing? Anything special or just standard epoxy or what?

[neanderthalman]

By looking at other threads it seems like some people try to make plumbing into an art form.

 

Hey. Hey. I resemble that comment!

 

Thanks. I am ready to start plumbing.....oh wait! What do you use to secure the plumbing? Anything special or just standard epoxy or what?

 

PVC cement. You'll find it where you buy the PVC fittings.

 

 

 

In order to really help you out, I'm going to need to know specifics about how the tank was drilled.

 

Can you please post photos to document the layout of holes? Do you have an internal overflow box yet? Have you read up on the various standpipes or drain methods (durso, stockman, herbie)?

[Carlton'sTank]

I do have an internal overflow box. It is in the back left corner of the tank and is about 4x6 inches and obviously runs the height of the tank. i do not know much about the stand pipe or drain methods. I took off the plugs to the bulkheads and my drain is 1" and my return is 3/4" thread/thread. I think that my overflow box will be beneficial in case of a power outage. The water line is about 1/2 higher than the start of the grating on the overflow box. I just need to calculate the volume of water that my overflow holds plus the extra 1/2 inch so that if power goes out only that amount will drain.I figure that the display will drain below the grating and then water is in the overflow would drain as well. Does that sound right?

 

I will get some pictures up today. I am rounding up the last of the equipment I will need to get started. I want to transfer all of my stuff from my current tank as soon as I get everything situated. I plan on adding my LR that does not have coral along with about 1/4 inch of sand from my current tank. I will then let the tank go through it's quick cycle then pull over the rest of my livestock. My current tank will then become a frag/colony tank.

[Carlton'sTank]

After a little more research I am probably going to do a DIY durso method. I know that noise can be an issue with this method sometimes, but the tank is on the other side of the house and I will try a few mods if it is bad.

 

What about drain methods? Does anyone have a link with pictures or an example I can look at?

[neanderthalman]

I highly recommend the herbie method, even if it means drilling another hole. I've dealt with dursos on my 10g, and while they're alright, the herbie on my 40B is much simpler and much more reliable.

 

Herbie method:

 

full height overflow box.

 

One drain low (back or bottom), one drain high.

 

Both capable of handling full flow rate.

 

Low drain exits below sump water level. High drain exits above sump water level.

 

Ball valve on low drain. No valve on high drain.

 

Low drain is throttled to raise water level in overflow box to just below the high drain.

 

High drain stays dry and only sees water if there is a problem with the low drain.

 

 

 

Why is this good?

 

Once operating (give it a minute or two), the entire low drain will be filled with water. The intake for the drain will be far enough below the surface that it will not suck air, and the subsurface exit for the drain will also not be exposed to air.

 

Result: A silent, nearly bubble-free drain.

 

 

 

There's also a sticky thread in the DIY forum with various standpipe arrangements.

[Carlton'sTank]

I really decided to go with the sump on the simple fact that the used tank was pre-drilled with bulkheads. I am going to just try the durso. I may end up being mad at myself, but it is simpler for what I have already. In fact, I took the time to do some researching and put one together today. I am going to set up the rest of the plumbing and document it to get input.

[ajmckay]

Don't forget pictures!

[Carlton'sTank]

will get pictures going soon, just kind of busy.

 

I have a question about an adhesive to use for my tank to sump conversion. I am taking a 10 g aga tank and making it into a small sump/fuge. I have heard that silicone is not good for acrylic and weld-on is not good for glass (in terms of the hold). So what do I use to secure acrylic to glass (my baffles and what not for the sump)?

 

Pictures tonight. This weekend I am giong to start a tank thread for the new tank and document everything.

[hazmat]

Wow! I asked this exact same question just a couple of days ago and you got much better info than I did. I'm trying to figure out the exact same thing. Have a 90 gallon with a sump/fuge that I'm trying to decide whether to hard plumb or just use flexible tubing.

 

Where did you find the info on Herbie, durso etc.?? Search?

[Carlton'sTank]

Okay, I got it all set up and going. I am seeing a lot of micro bubbles though. I don't know if that is something that just happens at first, but If anyone has a solution to the problem I would appreciate it. I am going to take some pics of the setup tonight. Thanks.