MitchReef Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 You gotta put anti-siphon holes in the return line. That's what caused it. I don't feel there is ever justification for check valves if things are set up right. Siphon will break immediately when air gets to the holes. Drill two or more just a little bit below your normal water level, that way if you have a little piece of crap over one or you get snailed the others will save you. I guess you learned a couple of lessons here, not the least of which is if somebody who knows what they are talking about takes the time to explain something for you and you choose to punk them off, well, your Father's floor gets ruined! Link to comment
w1dude Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 You gotta put anti-siphon holes in the return line. That's what caused it. I don't feel there is ever justification for check valves if things are set up right. Siphon will break immediately when air gets to the holes. Drill two or more just a little bit below your normal water level, that way if you have a little piece of crap over one or you get snailed the others will save you. I guess you learned a couple of lessons here, not the least of which is if somebody who knows what they are talking about takes the time to explain something for you and you choose to punk them off, well, your Father's floor gets ruined! Ok? well I didnt mean to piss anyone off. I didnt even know it was him that said it. And glad you can tell me whats right or wrong! Link to comment
neanderthalman Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Ok? well I didnt mean to piss anyone off. I didnt even know it was him that said it. And glad you can tell me whats right or wrong! Meh, don't worry about him. Anyone who gets upset over something trivial on an internet forum is not worth your concern. There are a lot of douchebags on the internet with a shorter fuse than is healthy, and take themselves far too seriously. It has a lot to do with the anonymity the internet grants - they really wouldn't be so pissy in real life. Keyboards grant a sense of power and courage far beyond a gun, truck or other surrogate penis. Link to comment
w1dude Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Meh, don't worry about him. Anyone who gets upset over something trivial on an internet forum is not worth your concern. There are a lot of douchebags on the internet with a shorter fuse than is healthy, and take themselves far too seriously. It has a lot to do with the anonymity the internet grants - they really wouldn't be so pissy in real life. Keyboards grant a sense of power and courage far beyond a gun, truck or other surrogate penis. Haha that is the truth! thanks Link to comment
petkingdom619 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Since you are kinda talking about the subject. I have an overflow with two 1 1/2" drain tubes. There are siphon holes about where the 90degree bend is. It came with these straw like tubes that go down into them. How far down do I push the tube? AND For my return I have a 3/4" lockline that I drilled the tank and placed in. Do I need siphon holes on that? or are the siphon holes on the overflow ok? Each overflow outlet will have a ball valve and the return will also have a ball valve. Link to comment
Whacked Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Since you are kinda talking about the subject. I have an overflow with two 1 1/2" drain tubes. There are siphon holes about where the 90degree bend is. It came with these straw like tubes that go down into them. How far down do I push the tube? AND For my return I have a 3/4" lockline that I drilled the tank and placed in. Do I need siphon holes on that? or are the siphon holes on the overflow ok? Each overflow outlet will have a ball valve and the return will also have a ball valve. the straw tubes in the overflow are, I believe,to remove air. push them in until the overflow isnt so noisy. sort of like a quasi durso standpipe. glass-holes.com uses a system like that. You need siphon holes in the return lines. put them just below the display waterlevel. Link to comment
petkingdom619 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 glass-holes is the kits im using. My return is about 2 inches from the surface. Do i need to drill 2 small 1/4" holes in the locline and then bend the locline to where the holes are about an inch from the surface? thanks for the info btw Link to comment
neanderthalman Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hmm....sounds like you've got it a little confused. Whacked may have nailed it. A durso standpip uses either a hole or a tube to introduce a small amount of air into the drain. This lowers the capacity, but prevents air from getting sucked in with the water and creating noise. It's a "shut the hell up" hole. You don't need to worry about siphon holes on drain lines - the water level in the tank is protected by the overflow box. You also do not need to worry about them on closed loops. Where you do, usually, need siphon break holes is on a return line from a sump. Drill a small hole in the return, usually near or above the water line. Drill a second hole as a backup. Drilling the hole just below the water line will help prevent it from clogging due to salt creep. However, depending on how you have the loc-line set up - you might not need them at all. Post pics and we can tell you. I don't have them, for example. Also, in case anyone else reads this thread....the holes go on the INSIDE of the tank. I only say this because it's a mistake I have seen..... Link to comment
petkingdom619 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 here it is.. im not sure what i need to do still. Link to comment
rean_jem Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 it looks to me that the locline is at least 2in below the waterline. if you put a hole on the locline after the bulkhead make sure that your sump will be able to handle all the water that will be siphoned out after the hole, if not you need to put a check valve anywhere between the return and bulkhead. Link to comment
petkingdom619 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 yea that might be to much for my sump... maybe I can put the hole and place a short stiff tube pointing upwards so the level would be higher Is the reasoning for this because , If the pump shuts off the water will siphon backwards down into the sump? what would the check valve do I kinda thought that the overflow box would determine the waterline if a power outage happens maybe a better picture Link to comment
MitchReef Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You gotta put anti-siphon holes in the return line. That's what caused it. I don't feel there is ever justification for check valves if things are set up right. Siphon will break immediately when air gets to the holes. Drill two or more just a little bit below your normal water level, that way if you have a little piece of crap over one or you get snailed the others will save you. I guess you learned a couple of lessons here, not the least of which is if somebody who knows what they are talking about takes the time to explain something for you and you choose to punk them off, well, your Father's floor gets ruined! I guess I need to say something because I didn't really mean for this to sound prickish...not my M.O....I was really just stressing the thing of taiking good advice, as it seemed like dude had already gone over this with you...a lot of people come onto the boards, ask advice, then just go on and do whatever they thought before asking....I just worded it a bit harsh I guess...I'm just a bit terse at times... No foul meant... Link to comment
rean_jem Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 If the pump shuts off the water will siphon backwards down into the sump? the check valve will protect your sump from the pump once it losses power. it will not allow water to siphon back. your idea about using something to raise the hole might just work, but im not 100% sure. btw the overflow box dictates the level when you only have the overflows inside it but since you added a return that will cause a siphon so in order to maintain the overflow level when the power goes out you need check valve. Link to comment
MitchReef Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The overflow box controls the amount that goes down the overflows, but the pump return will continue to siphon until air gets to it...that's the reason we install siphon breaks...I just hate to see anybody use a check valve because the ones we would use in the hobby just aren't that reliable...They can stick either open or closed...that defeats that added security that they should be giving... Link to comment
coralcor Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 i gota say that sux.... id help but im only on my first day of plumbing school.(im not kidding im goan be a plumber) Link to comment
MitchReef Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The only problem I could see with the tube going up from the return is that if you have any, even slight back pressure at that point it could act like a little bitty spray nozzle and squirt out...I cannot see this really, since the water is just straight flowing out from there, but snails can sure get in some dumb places and make problems! Link to comment
petkingdom619 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 alright thanks for the responses! when I get all things setup i will do a little experimenting and see what I can do. Ill try not to use the check valve since it would judt be more cost to the setup. Link to comment
BKtomodachi Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Also, check valves are not a long-term solution. Most that I've worked with will allow at least a steady drip of water to pass through when there is a significant amount of pressure after time. Its best to just get the tank set up so they aren't necessary. If it were me, I'd simply rig a way to have the loc-line output be just below the water level, that way it stops the back siphon quickly. Link to comment
Marasol Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Easy solution, it may affect your flow a slight bit, but it will work. If you get a couple of loc lin 90 degree bends (or perhaps 45 degree if there available) you could bring the loc line return up closer to the water level. I suggest using 90 degree bends so you dont have 2 feet of loc line to get it back up.... All you need is to get the line with an inch or two of the surface and drill a couple of holes in the bottom of it. Its unfortunate that they put the return so low in the water. As a side not on check valves. They will save you 97% of the time within the first 3 months. After three months you have a 63% chance they will work as intended. After 1 year, yea, Russian Roulette with salt water bullets. Obviously I made up the percentages but I am in the field of construction and have had experiences with check valves in many different sitatuations. Take it for what its worth and go your own way I wish you good luck and happy dryness. My 65 cents. Link to comment
petkingdom619 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 nice. i dont know why i didnt even think about that angle peices. Ill get some of those fur shur Link to comment
jm82792 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 My dad won't even let my DIY nano into the house,even though it's been holding water for a month and has great seams I would have been soo dead Link to comment
neanderthalman Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The issue with check valves is not that there is something fundamentally wrong with the idea. It's that we are all cheap-ass lazy bastages. You're not going to spend more than ten or fifteen bucks on a check valve, and even that's pushing it. You also need one that is non-metallic. At the prices we pay, there is no way you're going to find a check valve that can be properly maintained. In (a proper) industry, a check or non-return valve in a critical system is always accessible, and regularly inspected, cleaned, and rebuilt - long before failure occurs. We don't do that in a hobby, nor can we do so without great expense purchasing the valve. +1 to BK. Locline return at the surface of the water is the best solution. Siphon holes (pointed down at the water) are the next. In both situations, running your sump with enough extra volume to accomodate the water is absolutely necessary. Link to comment
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