High ph.

[thebrainbot]

Hey all-

 

So I've been doing water tests 1-2x a week for the past few weeks and have noticed my Ph. seems to hover around 8.6 and 8.8. I know it's a bit high.

I'm running a 24g NC with about 8 snails (getting more this week) and a Firefish (only been in there a week).

I've also got a crushed coral bed (came with the tank...) and about 26-28 lbs of LR. I had the tank cycling for close to 3 months.

 

The rest of my parameters are good. I don't have the exact numbers, but almost everything but the Ph is spot on. I'm not sure how to lower the Ph though, as I don't want to add a buffering solution.

 

In the back chambers I don't have anything in chamber 1 (probably will add stuff like Purigen, Chempure and Seagel later). In chamber 2 I have some LR rubble and my Chaeto. Chamber 3 has my MJ1200 and heater.

 

Most of my search results on google and on here have only mentioned dosing the tank or the info is about raising the Ph.

 

Thanks

[The Propagator]

What salt are you using?

Are you dosing any two part solutions, or single supplements?

Who is the maker of the test kits your using to test your PH with?

[thebrainbot]

I'm not dosing anything at the moment.

 

I'm using the Red Sea Max salt (mixing it myself).

 

I'm using the API test kits.

[Jhect]

Crushed coral can raise the PH of a tank. so i imagine by removing some of your's it will lower it. The water you are topping of with, can you tell us the PH of that? Than we can have an idea of where it is coming from.

[thebrainbot]

Yeah, I tested some of the water I was mixing and the PH was still high. I believe around 8.6. I'm using RO/DI water from the LFS.

 

I ran out of water to test the pure RO/DI water though. Going to pick some up tomorrow and I'll be able to test that.

 

Any suggestions on what to do if that water is high? Is 8.6-8.8 high enough to end up causing issues? So far the live stock seems active and happy.

[bdare]

Crushed coral can raise the PH of a tank. so i imagine by removing some of your's it will lower it. The water you are topping of with, can you tell us the PH of that? Than we can have an idea of where it is coming from.

 

BULL. How does crushed coral raise Ph? Also, even if the top off water was high in Ph once it mixed with the tank water for a few hours it would stabilize from the CO2 / O2 mixture.

 

What is your Alk?

 

 

Here are articles that might help:

Low pH: Causes and Cures

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

 

High pH: Causes and Cures

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

 

My suspucion is your Ph really isn't that high unless you are dosing something. To get a valid Ph measurement you should use a probe.

[Jhect]

BULL. How does crushed coral raise Ph? Also, even if the top off water was high in Ph once it mixed with the tank water for a few hours it would stabilize from the CO2 / O2 mixture.

 

A simple google search and you will see all the people talking about coral to raise ph. it is more noticable in Freshwater tanks but it does work in SW as well. heres a link about a guy using it.

 

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/c...ation-1446.html

 

And of course the Ph of his water matters. Its what he used to mix all his SW. if its high the tank will be high. so before you run around yelling bull to everyone think for a bit.

 

EDIT: here is a better link read what Sterling M says.

 

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...02183641AAeNg6o

[bdare]

A simple google search and you will see all the people talking about coral to raise ph. it is more noticable in Freshwater tanks but it does work in SW as well. heres a link about a guy using it.

 

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/c...ation-1446.html

 

And of course the Ph of his water matters. Its what he used to mix all his SW. if its high the tank will be high. so before you run around yelling bull to everyone think for a bit.

 

You dumb noob. Don't believe everything you read. All that crud about Aragonite buffering your water is not true unless your Ph is REALLY low like that of a Calcium reactor. The way it works is when Ph is low it dissolves aragonite and realeases calcium carbonate into the water (Alk supplement). Your alk is what helps buffer Ph.

 

When you give people advice know what you are talking about. Don't just pull some old a$$ article off the internet and quote it like you know what your talking about.

 

You are part of the reason people take everything they hear on the internet with a grain of salt. You tell people to do things to thier tank without having a clue!

 

As I stated before... the Ph of your makeup water is NOT that important other than not shocking your inhabitants. You Ph is all dependant on your Alk level and the amount of CO2 / O2 in your tank. Thus, it is more important to meausure the Alk of your makeup water NOT the ph because once it mixes with your tank water and the oxygen levels balace out your Ph will be the same as your tank was before. This whole process only takes a few hours.

[Jhect]

I used a bag of Crushed coral in my filter to bump my ph about 3 days ago. went from 8.1 to 8.5. Heard about the Crushed coral from LFS. so unless for some other reasons my ph raised .4, the crushed coral works. To each his own i guess. worked for me thats all that matters. I guess next time i want to give out advice ill swing it by you first. Make sure im not being a "dumb noob" lol Have a great day.

[bdare]

I used a bag of Crushed coral in my filter to bump my ph about 3 days ago. went from 8.1 to 8.5. Heard about the Crushed coral from LFS. so unless for some other reasons my ph raised .4, the crushed coral works. To each his own i guess. worked for me thats all that matters. I guess next time i want to give out advice ill swing it by you first. Make sure im not being a "dumb noob" lol Have a great day.

Perhaps your Ph went up because your "1 month old" tank finished cycling? Maybe it cooled off and you opened some windows. If you LFS is still selling crushed coral to raise Ph I'd find another LFS.

[Jhect]

I have owned the tank for 1 month 3 weeks. Bought it off a guy who had it going for 2-3 months. kept about 75% of his water. so a tank that is 3-4 months old is cycled. and i check my temp twice a day, does not change in the slightest.

[bdare]

I have owned the tank for 1 month 3 weeks. Bought it off a guy who had it going for 2-3 months. kept about 75% of his water. so a tank that is 3-4 months old is cycled. and i check my temp twice a day, does not change in the slightest.

 

Here ya go... from a Reef chemist.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...light=aragonite

[Jhect]

Just another persons opinion to me. It worked for me, and thats all I am really concerned about. Im done having this debate. thebrainbot, do what you think will work. This worked for me, he says it wont, just play around and find what works for you. Im done posting here.

[The Propagator]

On with the show......

 

What type of rock do you have ? DYI cement aragonite type ? Florida aquacultured rock or something like that ?

FLA Aquacultured rock will some times raise your PH because its a cement aragonite mix. But only if you get a fresh batch stats seen very little of the ocean floor. DIY rock will because of the cement.

Lime stone, sand stone, volcanic rock ...... will raise your ph as well.

[itzclayyo]

On with the show......

 

What type of rock do you have ? DYI cement aragonite type ? Florida aquacultured rock or something like that ?

FLA Aquacultured rock will some times raise your PH because its a cement aragonite mix. But only if you get a fresh batch stats seen very little of the ocean floor. DIY rock will because of the cement.

Lime stone, sand stone, volcanic rock ...... will raise your ph as well.

 

+1, surprised this didnt come up sooner to...

[bdare]

On with the show......

 

What type of rock do you have ? DYI cement aragonite type ? Florida aquacultured rock or something like that ?

FLA Aquacultured rock will some times raise your PH because its a cement aragonite mix. But only if you get a fresh batch stats seen very little of the ocean floor. DIY rock will because of the cement.

Lime stone, sand stone, volcanic rock ...... will raise your ph as well.

 

Can someone please expain to me how LR or substrate increase Ph? I'm assuming these rocks and sand are hard. What is on them that's dissolving into the water column to increase Ph?

[thebrainbot]

I'm not sure specifically what kind of substrate it is. I know it's some sort of crushed coral, but I don't know any more specifics than that. I didn't buy the substrate, it came with the tank.

 

Heading out to get some more RO/DI water tonight and do a full round of tests on my mixed, fresh and in tank water.

[The Propagator]

Can someone please expain to me how LR or substrate increase Ph? I'm assuming these rocks and sand are hard. What is on them that's dissolving into the water column to increase Ph?

 

Dude,

Please......get off your fugging "I know more than you" high horse your using to challenge every one on lately and just enjoy the hobby already.

 

 

The above is common knowledge.

[bdare]

Dude,

Please......get off your fugging "I know more than you" high horse your using to challenge every one on lately and just enjoy the hobby already.

 

 

The above is common knowledge.

 

I beg to differ. I've been spending a lot of time in reef chemistry lately and the idea that substrate or rock will adjust Ph has been proven wrong by Randy Holmes Farley. Think about my question and then let me know what you've come up with. I do enjoy the hobby. Very much in fact, but I don't want to see people buy into old myths.

[The Propagator]

Links.....

[bdare]

Links.....

 

Post #12 in this thread.

 

Here's more:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...light=aragonite

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...t=crushed+coral

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...t=crushed+coral

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...t=crushed+coral

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2002/chem.htm

 

 

Really, for the same reasons stuff like Purple Up and AragaMilk don't work follow true for "crushed coral" and araganite substrate.

[bdare]

The above is common knowledge.

 

At one point it was also common knowlege that the earth was flat. I'm not trying to be a wise guy cause I have a lot of respect for you prop, but I think you get my point.

[The Propagator]

Every one of them are about aragonite. ( two of them are duplicate links )

Only one of them is published to the web on a dedicated page. But no peer judged review.

I see why and I know why aragonite will not buffer to term.

I see why and I already knew that aragonite will not buffer calcium as well.

 

 

Now lets look at my original post again ......( don't focus on ARAGONITE. Focus on the materials used in general and my actual comments :

 

"What type of rock do you have ? DYI cement aragonite type ? Florida aquacultured rock or something like that ?

FLA Aquacultured rock will some times raise your PH because its a cement aragonite mix. But only if you get a fresh batch stats seen very little of the ocean floor. DIY rock will because of the cement.

Lime stone, sand stone, volcanic rock ...... will raise your ph as well.""

[bdare]

Every one of them are about aragonite. ( two of them are duplicate links )

Only one of them is published to the web on a dedicated page. But no peer judged review.

I see why and I know why aragonite will not buffer to term.

I see why and I already knew that aragonite will not buffer calcium as well.

 

 

Now lets look at my original post again ......( don't focus on ARAGONITE. Focus on the materials used in general and my actual comments :

 

Why do the materials matter? The point is still the same! Any material which is going to release some sort of alk supplement to maintain Ph will only dissolve at a Ph value not found in marine aquria. As stated in a few of the thread I sent you, although this MAY occur at depth in a deep sand bed that alk will not be released into the rest of the tank due to the lack of flow. Maybe you are referring to the alk self dissolving tabs?

 

The original poster was asking about crushed coral. A few of the links I provided specifically address cc.

 

The other thing is... If you don't feel I can provide you enough evidence you could always take this to the RC Chem forum and ask Randy directly. I'm pretty sure our responses will match.

 

Nevermind... I already started one:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=1473028

 

Here's a link for limestone:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...light=limestone

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...light=limestone

 

To get a buffer you have to dissolve calcium carbonate. That just does not happen at the Ph in our tanks. If it did get that low you prolly wouldn't have any corals to worry about.

[The Propagator]

Its all good but as you know I can not post on RC. ( and I pretty much hate it as a whole )

But since your quoting me directly over there I think I will start a new account so I cant get bashed over there and not defend my self pr properly explain things the way I mean them if they don't come across they way I want them to.

So that's one down.......

How about Cement ?

Lava rock ?

 

You know .. there are things such as vigor and enthusiasm.... and then there are antagonistic and snide.

In other words there are much better ways to get your point across, or to prove your point then what I have been seeing out of ya lately bare. Your better then that buddy. I know its frustrating. I go through it too. But you don't have to be antagonistic with along with your explanation. Even if things do turn out to be mythical or other wise.