Just switched to Tropic Marin, Corals slow to adapt?

[aparnold]

Well, I decided to start mixing my own salt 3 weeks ago. My LFS started charging 89 cents a gallon for coralife mixed water. I can get RO/DI for 25 cents. The math was simple. I decided to go with what I've researched as being the best salt out there: Tropic Marin Pro. I got a 200 gallon bucket for 70 bucks shipped. So 70 cents (25(h20)+35(salt)) a gallon for good stuff. I've read stories about how many peoples corals have really liked Tropic Marin, exhibiting improved growth, color, etc.. Some of my colonies haven't exhibited any changes, but 2 specifically have. An orange Zoa colony, and some ric's. The zoas are partially closed for about 2 days, and the Rics aren't fully extended for the same time too. After the 2 days they seem to be back to normal. How long should it take for the corals to adjust to the new water? I've done 3 10% water changes now. I 've checked the chemistry, and all seems good. Other corals seem to be doing fine.

[P-DUBS]

Be careful with Marin Pro, I have heard it can significantly raise your alk levels.... But I could be wrong...

[BibleSue]

+1 Watch the alk. I use reg. Tropic Marin. Very happy with the results for the last year and a half.

[Weetabix7]

I think TM Pro is designed to be used with a calcium reactor or kalkwasser drip. If you don't use those, it might really throw your Ca and Alk levels off.

You might want to check into that.

Also, most people switch salts gradually rather than cold turkey, although I can see how that might be harder to do in your case.

It's tougher on your corals to do it the way you did.

[masterbuilder]

I think TM Pro is designed to be used with a calcium reactor or kalkwasser drip.

 

Exactly!

[aparnold]

Arg... Is a 10% once a week that big of a deal? Is the added calcium a big deal? Did I just blow 70 bucks on salt I can't use?!? F**K! I try and do something good, and not cheap out... And this. Should I avoid this water all together, or just give the corals time to adjust? I have a clam in my 12, and I thought the added calcium in this salt would be good for it. As I could avoid dosing. The TM is testing @ 520 CA.

[aparnold]

OK, found this chart outlining salt chemistry of different salts;

 

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/show...hreadid=1287118

 

The only big difference between the 2 salts (coralife /TMP) is that the calcium is slightly higher in the CL. I've tested both, and the LFS water tests at 420 Calcium, where as my mix is testing @ 520. The only caveat is that the LFS salinity is slightly lower than mine.

 

So, maybe giving this salt a go isn't a bad idea? I will test AK tomorrow.

[bdare]

Exactly. The numbers don't lie. TM Pro is fine.

[aparnold]

Exactly. The numbers don't lie. TM Pro is fine.

 

 

Are you using pro salt too?

 

Can anybody comment on the buffers in the pro salt?

[The Propagator]

Well... at least they aren't lying in that particular test any way...

Batches very greatly with any salt brand. Honestly the only way to get a good average is to test from at least 3 different batches IMHO.

I have never done this my self though because I have always been happy with what I have been using.

But I have never really liked the way most salt "studies" are performed simply because they are taken from one batch of salt. Test several and IMO they will be giving more accurate and more helpful advice on salt brands to use.

[bdare]

Are you using pro salt too?

 

Can anybody comment on the buffers in the pro salt?

 

I use Reef Crystals.

[masterbuilder]

I used regular TM salt for a long time. The reason I switched to something else(Tunze) was only because I wanted higher CA than regular TM has. TM regular is a fine salt, many use it with great results. I have never use the PRO version, so I cant give you first hand experience. The way PRO was explained to me and backed up by comments the TM rep made on another forum is: TM Pro is lower in ALK to offest the use of reactors and/or kalkwasser drips that increase ALK over time. So take that for what is worth...maybe nothing.

 

IMO...You should be fine using the Pro version, many many people with sucessful tanks are happy with it. Just adjust your ALK if needed. You might test your freshly mixed TM Pro for every parameter you have a kit for just to see where you are.

[aparnold]

I used regular TM salt for a long time. The reason I switched to something else(Tunze) was only because I wanted higher CA than regular TM has. TM regular is a fine salt, many use it with great results. I have never use the PRO version, so I cant give you first hand experience. The way PRO was explained to me and backed up by comments the TM rep made on another forum is: TM Pro is lower in ALK to offest the use of reactors and/or kalkwasser drips that increase ALK over time. So take that for what is worth...maybe nothing.

 

IMO...You should be fine using the Pro version, many many people with sucessful tanks are happy with it. Just adjust your ALK if needed. You might test your freshly mixed TM Pro for every parameter you have a kit for just to see where you are.

 

 

I still haven't tested my ALK yet, hopefully today. My corals seem fine with the exception of the reaction over the first 2 days I mentioned. I will try another water change today, and test. Will report back soon.

[Crippler]

I have been using TM Pro for 9 months now and have never had a problem with high Alk. If anything, the alk is too low for my liking. 7-8 dKH. I like my alk at 10, so I buffer the tank with some baked baking soda. No big deal. Between my weekly water changes, all the parameters are rock solid for MY tank. I do get blooms of diatoms or something right after water changes though. I have read reports of others experiencing the same issue with TMPro. That salt water analysis did show TMPro to have higher levels of phosphates when mixed, under .1 ppm but it is something.

[Weetabix7]

A couple of days ago I accidentally did the same thing and got TM Pro Reef instead of regular Tropic Marin at a LFS.

I emailed Tropic Marin and asked them what would happen if I used TM Pro Reef in my mixed reef tanks without using a calcium reactor or dosing Ca/Alk additives.

I got this response this morning:

 

"Thank you very much for your interest in our Tropic Marin PRO-REEF sea

salt.

 

Our PRO-REEF sea salt contains calcium and alkalinity for synthetic sea

water with ca. 450 ppm calcium and 7° dKH.

If you do not add any calcium or alkalinity additives especially the

alkalinity might sink a bit. This is usually not detrimental as long as

the alkalinity does not reach values below 5°dKH which usually should

not be the case if regular weekly water changes are done.

If you want to maintain the optimum calcium and alkalinity

concentrations like the initial concentrations of our PRO-REEF salt we

recommend the use of our Tropic Marin BIO-CALCIUM or BIO-CALCIUM Liquid.

These products supply both calcium and alkalinity in a perfectly

balanced formula."

 

Those Alk values sound low to me, and low Alk is not something to be messed with. The LFS I got the salt from does not carry regular TM, so the TM Pro will be returned today for a refund. Luckily for me I realized my error before opening the box.

 

I also found the following information which might be helpful in this area:

http://www.tropic-marin.com/web/english/pr...z-vergleich.htm

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav...Impressions.htm

[Crippler]

Weetie, how do you like the standard TM? I was thinking of switchin to that once my 200g bucket of the Pro is gone. How is the Ca levels in that? I have read it is lower and I don't want to have to bump Ca up with every water change. For me, bumping the low alk of the Pro up is easier and far cheaper. Once I bring it up to 9-10dKH is rides along that level all week with my Kalk drip.

 

Hove you tried the Pro Reef? If not, ya may want to give it a shot. Try a small box. A few of my fellow reef club members have moved to the Pro Reef and are liking it. The price does suck though.

[dtfleming]

The biggest thing I can say about saltmixes is that there is no one great saltmix. Whichever saltmix you choose to use, you will very likely still need to add supplements to it depending upon your reef. Like Prop I have always used Oceanic and have great results. I do need to add 2-part to my tank because the alk will come out on the low end.

 

TM, Oceanic, RC, Seachem salts all have the add extra cal etc for reef tanks. So its really about which saltmix that you like to use. This issue has been debated several times here and on other forums, with people supposedly provide their test with one batch of different salts.

[Weetabix7]

Weetie, how do you like the standard TM? I was thinking of switchin to that once my 200g bucket of the Pro is gone. How is the Ca levels in that? I have read it is lower and I don't want to have to bump Ca up with every water change. For me, bumping the low alk of the Pro up is easier and far cheaper. Once I bring it up to 9-10dKH is rides along that level all week with my Kalk drip.

 

Hove you tried the Pro Reef? If not, ya may want to give it a shot. Try a small box. A few of my fellow reef club members have moved to the Pro Reef and are liking it. The price does suck though.

 

I could go on forever on this issue.

Dtfleming makes some good points.

I've been having salt problems for the last 10 months or so.

As a result, I've done a decent bit of research in the area.

I could say a lot more, but here's a brief version of my thoughts:

OCEANIC- Not bad, I've been using it for 9 months or so. On a gut level, the super high Ca reading I've been getting makes me nervous. (520 Ca and higher)

TROPIC MARIN (reg. version, not Pro Reef)- I used it from the mid 90's til recently with great results. It's a long story, but I started having some problems 10 mos. ago and after checking everything else came to the conclusion it was the salt. I still think Tropic Marin is a good, solid company, I just think that they had something happen at one of their salt manufacturing locations that caused a few batches to be off. For all I know, they may have gotten past that now.

Ca levels in it ARE lower (around 320, I think). It would be okay with softies, would def. need supplementation w/sps.

TROPIC MARIN PRO REEF- don't feel comfortable using it without dosing because of lower Alk levels.

 

I am in the process of switching to D-D H20 Pro and will have to see how that goes.

[Crippler]

I am in the process of switching to D-D H20 Pro and will have to see how that goes.

 

Oh nice, I was checking that out too. Let us know how it works out.

[yardboy]

May as well throw my 2 cents in. Reading this article tells me all I really need to know about which salt to use, and the article isn't even about salt studies. The amount of calcium or alkalinity in salt can't be maintained with water changes, unless the tank is new. Cheaper to add those compounds seperately. I've used IO for years but after reading some of the salt studies decided to go to Reef Crystals. Yikes. My tanks didn't like even the 10% water change. After a couple more changes and the corals still apparently didn't like it (much less polyp extension and duller colors) I switched back to IO. I won't argue that it is the best around, but I do think that whatever you start with you may need to stick with. IO is readily available, and even though Tropic-Marin may be better, I can't get it consistently haven't tried it.

It does beg the question though that if i get a coral from an lfs (or for instance from Prop) and they use a different salt, what effect could I expect if I plopped it in my tank with IO? And yes, I have had corals just decline and die within a few days of buying them while everything else in my tanks is doing fine.

Hmmm. I wonder what salt SDT uses as corals I've got from her took off and are doing well.

[aparnold]

Just tested the mix for ALK... 12dKH @ 1.025 SG. Not bad! Interesting how my batch is testing higher in calcium & ALK than is stated by others here...

[masterbuilder]

Yardboy,

 

SeeDemTails uses Tropic Marin Regular

[fierceseaman]

I am not sure why so many people are worried about ALK begin at 7. Natural sea water is usually aroune 7-8 if i remember correctly. The thing that I would worry about the most is the quick change of several dHK all at once because dKH can greatly effect your PH. That might have been what you were seeing when you did your change. I think that when the corals get used to the new amounts of trace elements and things we don't test for in salt mixes you will probably be fine. FWIW I use Reef Crystals exclusively and have been very pleased.

[aparnold]

I am not sure why so many people are worried about ALK begin at 7. Natural sea water is usually aroune 7-8 if i remember correctly. The thing that I would worry about the most is the quick change of several dHK all at once because dKH can greatly effect your PH. That might have been what you were seeing when you did your change. I think that when the corals get used to the new amounts of trace elements and things we don't test for in salt mixes you will probably be fine. FWIW I use Reef Crystals exclusively and have been very pleased.

 

 

Previous water change my zoas still weren't fully extended for a day, but my rics are doin' AOK. I just did another change today, and I will report back. It seems this salt is pretty high in dKH, and CAL. will check some more parameters soon. Will check PH next.

[fierceseaman]

Still, changing 10% at a time should not cause huge problems. They may just be adjusting. Softies can be as finicky as SPS sometimes.