JIM27 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Here is my new 10g(only half full) coldwater nano. Its been set up for about 4 days now using water and sand from my shark tank. The livestock, seaweed/algae, and small seaweed covered rocks were all collected from the tidepools when we were on vacation in Monterey, CA. The larger rocks are lr from the lfs. Everything seems to be adjusted well, the fish and anemone all eat great. I assume since they live in the tidepools they're pretty hardy animals. The inhabitants include: 5 Sculpins(1-2", dont know the exact species) 1 Monkeyface eel(2") 5 or so hermits 2 or 3 crabs 5 or so snails two kinds of seaweed 1 dark green anemone w/ purple tinted tenticles I keep the tank at about 68 degrees, which is warmer than the water they came from, but everything seems fine. Filtration is just a hob with carbon and lighting is some sunlight in the morning and a 15w 6.5k NO. The tanks not as colorful or pretty as a reef but its been a dream of mine for years to have a cold tank housing native species. The tank is still in the begining stages but I'm very happy with it so far. Enjoy the pics and if you have any Q's ask. Link to comment
JIM27 Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 Sculpin, one of five in the tank. Link to comment
JIM27 Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 This is the best pic I could get of the eel. You cant even see his head in it. If I can take a better one I'll post it. Link to comment
cal3v Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Jim thats pretty sweet. Being tidepool animals should make them very hardy compared to other coldwater creatures. Link to comment
Kalanianaole Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 That's a fresh change of pace in our warm nano world. Good looking tank. What varieties of corals are available in the coldwater world? What do the sculpins eat? They look related to scooter blennies (Which have to be able to temporarily withstand ridiculously high temps...like low ninties. I was on vacation in the Caribbean and saw several scooter blennies in a tidepool. The water was HOT when I put my foot in.) Sorry about that little tangent. Are the sculpins pod eaters like scooter blennies? Link to comment
J-Bass Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Where'd you get the eel and how big do they get? Link to comment
changhsu Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Hey! I'm in sacto also! Which beach did you go to? I love the tidepools at Monterey, but I don't know if it is legal to collect stuff there, do you? I saw some people with licenses catching crabs. Did you mix your own saltwater or used NSW? The weather in sacto is in the 90's and 100's, are you using a chiller to keep the water at 68? Could you just keep the tank at room temperature, ie let it follow the seasons? This is very interesting, please keep us posted from time to time. Thanks! -chang Link to comment
Nishant3789 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 how are you keeping hte tank cold? chiller? Very cool btw. i like it im going to keep one when i grow up. its also been a dream of mine to have one. Link to comment
chufa Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 That's cool. Since you have a shark tank, I assume you know what you are doing. Keep in mind, though, that cold water supports less oxygen, therefore, you need to be careful about oxygenation and stocking levels. Looks like you are pushing it there a little bit from what I have read, though I personally have no experience with that. Link to comment
dickie52 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I have been lead to believe that cold water supports more oxygen... Dickie Link to comment
moose12 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 dickie is correct, lower water temperatures have higher levels of dissolved oxygen. At lower temperture, gas solubility increases the amount of oxygen the water can hold. Salinity and pressure are also factors. Link to comment
moose12 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 oh and Jim, thats an awesome tank, I hope that you will keep us updated on your progress. It reminds me of trips to Half Moon Bay to go tidepooling when I used to live in NoCal. Very cool!! Link to comment
chufa Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 You are right! What was I thinking? D'oh Link to comment
JIM27 Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 Kalanianaole: I dont know of any coldwater corals. The closest thing to the color of corals I saw was the anemones. Some of the big 8"-10" ones were very bright green. Awesome looking. From what I've read, sculpins eat mostly small crustaceans. They do look sorta similar to scooters but I dont think they're related, at least not closely. J-Bass: The eel along with all the other stock was caught in the tidepools. They get about 2 1/2 feet. changhsu: I dont know if its legal either. I kinda assumed it was legal since there were no signs saying NO at the beach, while at others like Asilomar State Beach they have them everywhere. There's maybe a half a gallon of NSW in there at most, the rest is from my shark tank, which I use IO in. In the summer the room its in gets around 80 with the AC on(thast when its about 100 outside). I know the animals can tolerate higher temps but I think 80's might be too hot. I dont use a chiller to keep it cold, yet. *coughbagsoficecough* I'm currently looking to see which one would be best for the tank. Thanks everyone for the comments. And for those who are interested, I attached a better pic of the eel. Link to comment
dchisenh Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 From what I understand, most of the intertidal coldwater species can survive for a little while at higher temps (greater than 70 or so), but won't make it in the long term because of the added stress. Think of it as moving to the Sahara desert with only the clothes you have on right now (these fish and inverts can't "change clothes", either). Sure you'd live for a little while, but I think you'd probably die of heat exhaustion/stroke/exposure if you were out there too long. For those people thinking "hey, I could survive out there, people live there all the time", they're used to the weather for one, and for another, people are a whole lot more adaptable than the fish and inverts you're dealing with. I'm not trying to dis your setup, I actually admire that you're willing to take on such a task. I definately hope it works out for ya, but just be ready for a hard road ahead. Good luck! -Dan Link to comment
JIM27 Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 Hey no offense taken. For all I know you may be right. My thinking is that they should be fine in this temp though. I read on the monterey bay aquarium site the other day that they keep there million gallon outer bay exhibit at 68(much warmer than the wild) degrees as well. I'm thinking that if these fish(which experience much less changes in temp in the wild) can live in it then so can tidepool animals, which naturally are exposed to it and even higher temps for sometimes hours. Link to comment
dchisenh Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I'm glad you didn't take offense, Jim. After I wrote my reply, I thought..it kinda sounds like I'm bashing him, but I didn't mean it that way. I think your set up will be hard to keep going, but it's definately in the realm of possibility. The million gallon exhibit is inherently much more stable as far as temp and all other water parameters, which might be why they're able to do it. I just think that since the temp is already elevated in your setup, you'll have to keep a close eye on all other factors (salinity, pH, nitrogenous wastes, etc.) to try and decrease the total stress on your critters. The way I tend to look at it is that you're given an overall budget of stress that your creatures can take, say 10 units. If you up the temp, that'll probably be about 5 units from your total, right there. So, that means you'll have less leeway in the amount of variability in your salinity, say only 1 unit, meaning you can only let your salinity deviate by a tiny, tiny bit. The same with ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate...any more than 1 unit flux for them, and you'll be pushing the amount of stress that your critters can take. The same for all other water parameters. I think that because it's such a small volume of water, I would try and keep as much automation (a drip for evaporation compensation, some fans for evaporative cooling {you'll have to increase the amount of drip for evap. to keep up with it, but it might help keep the temp in check at key times during the day}, anything else you can afford to keep your system as stable as possible) and I would also include some biological "safety nets" in the form of more algae to help purify the water and provide some extra shelter for your fish, if they need it, and try to decrease the number of fish you have in there...seems like you're pushing it, even though they're small. That's just a couple of things I thought of that might help ya out. I've entertained the thought of keeping a cold-water nano just for the sake of Catalina gobies..I love those critters. But, I just can't afford a chiller, so rather than go through the trouble of floating ice cubes..(can you see yourself doing that for months?...), I just scratched the idea. Please keep us informed as to how things are going, 'cause that's seriously what this hobby needs, people who are willing to go the extra mile and prove that things can be done when everyone else said it was impossible. Who knows, you might even notice a new form of behavioral or physical adaptation to elevated temperatures that's unknown to other biologists! Once again, good luck and keep us posted! -Dan Link to comment
JIM27 Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 Never really thought about it like that. Thanks for the warning. On the topic of floating ice, its really not as bad as it seems. It takes about 5 minutes out of your day. But fwiw I'm ordering a chiller tonight. Also the reason for so many fish is because I actually expected 2 or 3 to die on the 3 1/2 hour drive home or during acclimation, but none did(which is a good thing even if its a little overstocked). I know that sounds kinda bad but I wanted to have 3 or 4 fish alive in the tank. I've got a 20g anda 30g in my garage for when they get bigger. The real difficulty in having a cold tank is I cant find anything about them. The only site I've seen about cold tanks was about east coast species. I'll be posting updated pics in this topic in about a month or so. Link to comment
cjm033 Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 your tank looks cool i like the eel alot. how does the 15 watt NO work for lighting on the tank with the anemone? Link to comment
JIM27 Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 The area they're from is overcast alot so I dont think these anemone's can afford to be overly reliant on photosynthesis. This one(along with like 25 others in a big anemone "patch") was kinda on the underside of a big rock when I found it so they probably rely on food instead of light. Link to comment
cjm033 Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 im goin to south carolina this weekend or next and im goin to one of the beaches so im probly gonna copy you and make a small around 10 gallon coldwater nano,ill probly do mostly crabs and maby a anemone if i can find one and some macro n stuff and hopefully a fish or 2,Chris Link to comment
JIM27 Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 I dont know what the beaches are like on the east coast but if they're anything like they are here you'll find anemones EVERYWHERE. The hard parts not finding them, but getting them off a rock lol. Good luck with your tank. Link to comment
JJshiv Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Im from the Monterey Bay area and I must say that is a pretty cool set up but very very illegal. Monterey Bay is a marine preserve and you would be heavily fined if any officials found out about that. I used to catch all those same animals when I was younger but release them right back. Even the anemone is familiar to me. I would agree on the mostly feeding on living organisms instead of photosynthesis, but that doesnt mean they get no light at all. Your lighting still might not be enough. I would say that the anemones in the MB get less light than tropicals, but the light they do get is still intense for the short time that they get it. Im not sure on all this info, but a great place to look for info would be at the MB Aquarium and their website. I used to feed the anemones with whatever I could find. If I remember correctly I fed them mostly snails. Link to comment
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